selecting aperture and shutter speed on manual??

I just bought myself the canon rebel t3. No clue about photography, just signed up for a course, always had a point and shoot...okay, my teacher wants for the first assignment for us to take pictures on Manual only, no flash, and all black and white. My question is this: How do I select what aperture and shutter speed I need? I am playing around with the different choices, but no sure if there is a better way to do this...is there a standard? Also, I noticed if I put the camera in P, it gives you the info you need, so if I took this info and put in in Manual, is this considered the idiot way of doing things? I realize that a point and shoot does all the thinking for you, and I want to learn dslr photography, so please don't lecture me about that. I simply want to what are the steps to be taken when taking a picture in Manual mode. Also, how does the light metering come into play? I played around with that on Manual, and noticed it changes the shutter speed for you so you get the correct exposure, but it does not change the aperture. Should I rely on the meter for the shutter speed, and then play around with different f-stops?

any info you can give me would help greatly!

topaze1988 said:

I just bought myself the canon rebel t3. No clue about photography, just signed up for a course, always had a point and shoot...okay, my teacher wants for the first assignment for us to take pictures on Manual only, no flash, and all black and white. My question is this: How do I select what aperture and shutter speed I need? I am playing around with the different choices, but no sure if there is a better way to do this...is there a standard? Also, I noticed if I put the camera in P, it gives you the info you need, so if I took this info and put in in Manual, is this considered the idiot way of doing things?

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Its a decent enough way of getting started with light metering. As you grow, you'll learn you want to control either aperture or shutter speed as the first priority, and set the other one to match for a good exposure.

topaze1988 said:

I played around with that on Manual, and noticed it changes the shutter speed for you so you get the correct exposure, but it does not change the aperture.

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It sounds like you were in Av (Aperture-priority), which does exactly what you describe. It lets you pick the aperture, but adjusts the shutter speed automatically for what the camera light meter thinks it should be.

True manual (M) adjusts neither automatically. The light meter still operates however - the -2/0/+2 needle on the line (the exposure meter in manual mode) will show you when the light meter in the camera thinks you're in a good spot.

--
Warning: The internet is filled with one sided views. Stay objective.

topaze1988 said:

How do I select what aperture and shutter speed I need?

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i have a t2i ... when using manual mode, the dial near the shutter button controls the shutter speed. i have to hold a button on the back marked 'Av' to make the same dial change the aperture ... it would be nice to have 2 dials, but that's reserved for more high-end models as far as i know ...

topaze1988 said:

I noticed if I put the camera in P, it gives you the info you need, so if I took this info and put in in Manual, is this considered the idiot way of doing things?

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it's one way of learning things ... as long as you take a picture you like, it doesn't matter if you take 2 steps or 22 steps ... but if someone's paying you money for fast quality work, that's a different story ...

topaze1988 said:

Also, how does the light metering come into play?

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on manual mode the meter will show you what the camera thinks is a proper exposure ... the 3 main values for exposure are aperture, shutter speed, and ISO -- each one can be raised or lowered to change exposure with different additional effects (more/less depth of field, more/less blur, more/less noise) ...

it's up to the photographer to know what each factor does and change them as needed to get the photo they want ...

look at the dpreview.com glossary under the 'exposure' section for more info ...

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/glossary.asp

whatever works for you ...

topaze1988 said:

I just bought myself the canon rebel t3. No clue about photography, just signed up for a course, always had a point and shoot...okay, my teacher wants for the first assignment for us to take pictures on Manual only, no flash, and all black and white.

Click to expand...

Oy vey...what a terrible instructor. Manual mode is a waste of time and doesn't teach you anything.

topaze1988 said:

My question is this: How do I select what aperture and shutter speed I need?

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First set the dial on top of the camera to "M". Now look through the viewfinder. At the bottom of the viewfinder there's a horizontal bar that looks like this...
-2..1..v..1..2

That's the exposure display, and under that you'll see an exposure indicator. The center of the display is what you should be concerned with for now. The idea is to change your aperture and shutter speed so that that exposure indicator is in the center of the exposure display. That's your starting point. Later you'll shift the indicator to the left or right, but you have to learn about exposure first. This moving around of the exposure indicator in Manual mode has nothing to do with learning exposure.

As already stated by someone else, when the shooting mode dial is set to M, the control dial by the shutter button will control shutter. To control aperture, you press and hold the "Av" button on the back of the camera and then turn the same dial by the shutter button to change aperture.

topaze1988 said:

I am playing around with the different choices, but no sure if there is a better way to do this...is there a standard? Also, I noticed if I put the camera in P, it gives you the info you need, so if I took this info and put in in Manual, is this considered the idiot way of doing things?

Click to expand...

Actually I consider manual mode to be the idiots way of doing things Just try it with the meter as I described above. If the shutter speed is too show and you have blur, set a faster shutter speed and then change the aperture to center the exposure indicator. If you can't center the exposure indicator, then use your ISO button and increase your ISO and try again. Eventually you should be able to get the exposure indicator in the center of the display with a shutter speed that is fast enough to stop the action. You might have noisy images though, depending on the light.

topaze1988 said:

I realize that a point and shoot does all the thinking for you, and I want to learn dslr photography, so please don't lecture me about that. I simply want to what are the steps to be taken when taking a picture in Manual mode.

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No prob...I just described them above.

topaze1988 said:

Also, how does the light metering come into play?

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That's what your instructor is supposed to teach you.

.

This is actually a very good exercise. It will teach your eyes to evaluate. Don't expect great photos. Don't forget to set ISO to a fixed value, 100 would be a good value.

A guideline,

Sunny and bright 1/250 f11
Sunny and bright soft shadows 1/125 f11 or 1/250 f8
Cloudy and bright 1/125 f8
Cloudy and dark, or shadow areas in sunny day 1/60 f8

Forget the meter, just shoot at these values and see what happens. This is of course outside. Once you are confident, you can try interiors.

The B&W will help you evaluate your results better.

One good exercise is to go out and shoot a series of let's say 15-20 photos at a fixed 1/250 f8, and then repeat at 1/125 f8 and 1/60 f8 (same photos). Then examine them and see how the came out.

Then go out and take the same 15-20 photos at what you think will be the best settings, and see how you do.

Important to turn off the meter or ignore it. No point in using the meter as it will teach you nothing. Ah and forget about freezing or DOF or stuff like this. You need to walk before you run.

This will help you understand those numbers on your viewfinder and agree with your camera or say -"hmm, I think it will better to underexpose a bit.." (vice versa).

Good luck and enjoy your classes.

You're doing the right thing taking a course from what is probably a qualified instructor.

Now, I'm going to go right at it. Feel free to bail and slow back down to the instructors pace. This is the basics.

Ok, if you really want to learn it, first of all memorize the full stops of aperture and shutter speed. Understand that these full stops are doubling and halving light.

... f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6 f/8, f/11, f/16, f/22 etc are the full stops in aperture.

1 sec, half second, 1/4, 1/8, 15, 30, 60, 125, 250, 500, 1000, 1/2000 etc. are the full stops in shutter speed. Understand that 60 is 1/60 seconds. The camera only shows the denominator.

Now if you think about it, 15 will let in twice as much light at 30. 15 will let in four times as much light at 60. Double then double again. See?

With aperture the smaller number is the wider hole letting in light. f/2 will let in twice as much light as f/2.8 and four times as much as f/4. f/16 will let in one fourth the light as does f/8. You see, each stop is double and half.

So, let's say you have ISO on 100 and you press the P and it says the correct exposure is f/11 and 60th of a second. Let's say you take the picture and the kids movements are blurry. You want to speed up the shutter speed to freeze the kids. You decide 500th of a second will do it. You set the shutter speed there but then there isn't enough light. You've cut the light to 1/8th as much as you had. Half, half again and half of that. or 60th --> 125th --> 250th --> 500th of a second. You "closed" down 3 stops so you need to open aperture 3 stops to make up for it. So, you were at f/11. f/11 --> f/8 --> f/5.6 --> f/4. Your new exposure for freezing the kids is 500th of a second at f/4.

That 500th of a second at f/4 is exactly the same exposure as the P gave you of 60th at f/11. It's the same thing. You're just taking charge and deciding on what you need. You still need to use a light meter, manual match needle, or shoot one in P or Sunny 16 rule to get your Exposure Value, but then you take charge and set it where you need in order to accomplish something.

Personally, I like the way Graystar tells you how to reach the correct EV. Many still call that the Match Needle method though it’s LEDs and not needles these days. Again, this tells you how to get to the Exposure Value but not always the best exposure.

The reason I suggested memorizing full stops is so you know how far to move one if you move the other. Open up three stops in aperture, you must shut down three in shutter speed to maintain the same exposure. If you don't know where three stops from f/4 is, how can you set it? The camera displays half stops and third stops. I'm sure he will teach these, but nice to get a jump on it.

Now, I'm not suggesting that you always shoot in manual mode. What I'm saying is that this is the easiest and quickest way to learn exposure in most people's minds. Many of us, including me, find it just much easier and faster to shoot in manual mode. Once you know the exposure you want, why not just set it on the camera and not worry about all the automatic methods. Just set it and go. You can use the compensation to touch it up later as you’re working or just re-set it.

--
Cheers, Craig

Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile

Definitely read the manual. Focus initially on using the controls.

You have found the heart of the matter. Use the built in light meter to select the correct exposure.

It would have been easier (and you could still do it) to use:

• Aperture priority (Av) [camera chooses speed]
• Shutter priority (Tv) [camera chooses aperture]

Aperture is the opening that allows light through the lens to your camera's sensor.

This article will help to explain the relationship between aperture (f-stop), shutter speed and ISO.

http://www.gadling.com/2008/11/11/through-the-gadling-lens-apertures-and-shutters-and-isos-oh-my

1. Aperture (size of the diaphragm opening) determines how much light can enter the lens per unit time.

2. The speed of the shutter determines how long light is allowed to enter and hit the sensor.

3. The ISO (sensitivity of your camera’s sensor) determines how much light is perceived by your camera’s sensor.

Here is how we can use each of these settings when we shoot using a manual exposure. Let’s say that you just took a photo and after looking at it on your camera’s LCD, you realized that it was underexposed. You can increase the amount of light that hits the sensor in 5 (not 3) ways.

1. Decrease the shutter speed. Slower shutter speed = shutter open longer = more light enters and hits the sensor before the shutter closes.

2. Increase the size of the aperture [smaller f-stop number]. Bigger opening = more light getting in through the diaphragm (opening) and hitting the sensor.

3. Increase the ISO (sensor’s sensitivity to light). The camera’s computer will increase the brightness of your image.

4. If you are far away from your subject, move closer, refocus then take your photo again. The farther you are from your subject, the less light is reflected from your subject back to your camera. If you decrease the distance between you and your subject by half, you will increase the light hitting your camera’s sensor by a factor of 4.

5. If you are using a flash, increase the flash exposure compensation on your camera. This increases your camera’s sensitivity to light. If you use an external flash, flash exposure compensation can be increased on your flash instead (but not on both simultaneously).

I think his teacher wants him to learn to evaluate the correct exposure by his own naked eye.

If we start on about different shutter speeds and apertures and the different things these do, in the end we are combining too many things together and only cause confusion on the learner.

Best to keep things simple and progress step by step.

"Chasing the needle" won't teach anything. The idea here is to forget the camera's evaluation. If we are going to do what the camera says "manually", we might as well forget the whole idea and use the Auto Modes.

Being able to tell when the camera's lightmeter is giving us an incorrect value is going to be very helpful in some situations. So we can then know how to properly use the EV setting.

LightRoom said:

"Chasing the needle" won't teach anything. The idea here is to forget the camera's evaluation. If we are going to do what the camera says "manually", we might as well forget the whole idea and use the Auto Modes.

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Not exactly.

The built in exposure meter will give an indication of what it thinks is over- or under-exposure. But it's up to the user to select a suitable combination of settings.

For example 1 second at f/16 or 1/30 sec at f/2.8 will both give the same exposure, and the camera's match-needle display will show the same indication.

The learning part is deciding which combination (or any other suitable combination) to use, and why. If you don't know why at this stage, it doesn't matter. Trying things out and seeing what happens is part of the learning process.

I'm not suggesting necessarily to use random trial-and-error (though that might work). But hands-on experience is the thing which makes dry theory learned from books have some real meaning.

Regards,
Peter

I think Peter is correct. The meter, no matter what mode, just determines the Exposure Value, not the correct exposure for the situation. The advantage of shooting manual is that you choose the exposure based on the EV and the camera cannot modify it. In fact, the correct exposure you choose may or may not be the EV the camera told you. You may have decided to shoot two stops less or whatever. You may have chosen to use the EV but not the actual aperture, shutter speed and ISO the camera chose when letting you know the EV.

I often choose Shutter Priority (Tv on a Canon) to let me know the EV. That way I know the aperture at a specific shutter speed. That shutter speed is based on the focal length and my support and might be the minimum speed I'll accept. Then, I'll know the range of apertures and ISOs available to me. I'll choose a combination and set the camera in Manual mode. Now, no change in background or spike from a bright reflective object can affect my exposure. It is set in manual. No need to lock in exposure some other less certain way.

As conditions change, I can reevaluate, use compensation (available on Nikons) or set a different setting on the camera. For me, manual is just a very fast and easy way to go. For me, I find other ways to be less reliable, slower, and more cumbersome. I see guys in the field pushing compensation all over the place with birds in flight, trying to get the birds exposure correct with a changing bright sky. I find it much easier to decide the exposure of the bird up front and set it manually where the sky has no effect. If the bird flies lower with dark trees in the background, chances are my exposure is still accurate. The background still doesn't fool my meter. It can't. The meter is off.
--
Cheers, Craig

Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile

LightRoom said:

I think his teacher wants him to learn to evaluate the correct exposure by his own naked eye.

If we start on about different shutter speeds and apertures and the different things these do, in the end we are combining too many things together and only cause confusion on the learner.

Best to keep things simple and progress step by step.

"Chasing the needle" won't teach anything. The idea here is to forget the camera's evaluation. If we are going to do what the camera says "manually", we might as well forget the whole idea and use the Auto Modes.

Being able to tell when the camera's lightmeter is giving us an incorrect value is going to be very helpful in some situations. So we can then know how to properly use the EV setting.

Click to expand...

Why would you think that. I think he is trying help him understand the relationship between the hole and the shutter. Remember this is leason one.

I think that starting on M is a good exercise because you control every setting, nothing is set by the camera itself to confuse you. B&W means you only observe the distribution of light in the scene without the distraction of color.

Here is a thought to start: switch to P, note the ISO/aperture/shutter, switch to M, and set the same settings. Looking at same exact scene in same light, your exposure indicator should be on '0' - that is , what your camera meter considers proper exposure. Now, not touching any settings, point camera at lighter colored subjects, darker colored subjects, move to a better or worse lit area, half-pressing shutter now and then to keep the meter active. Observe how the exposure meter indicator moves in response. You will see that with darker scene/subject, meter will go to -1, -2 etc, which means camera meter thinks that at present settings, the picture will be underexposed (too dark). Moving into better light will send the meter to +1, +2 etc, meaning camera thinks the scene will be overexposed (too bright). Do actually take pictures of things to see how they come out.

Then, while pointing at same subject, try changing one setting at a time, see how it affects the position of the meter.

Another exercise: switch to P, and while pointing at various subjects, try adjusting exposure compensation and see how the camera changes your settings in response.

It's really not that a big deal. This afternoon I looked at the sky and the shadows and decided 1/125 f:8. And I was spot on (or so thought the camera). Then I took a few photos, while moving around of course the meter went up and down a bit between -1 and +1. Still took the photos. They all were ok. More or less.