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Any other M9 users considering switching to Fuji X-Pro 1?

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Clever! Although not as clever as this little PM you sent me:

"Apr 19, 2012 07:02:20

Interestingly I see you haven't posted any pictures to the forum but we both know why don't we. Do you ever travel?

Seriously though, why are you on the Leica forum if you're such a Fuji fanboy. You ain't going to convince anyone there you know. Are you on commission? They could all afford a Fuji whatever if they wanted
Neil

PS People spell quite differently in other countries but you probably do not understand that. After all you are from Texas so or so you say. Have a nice day now big boy ya' hear!"

What does posting pics have anything to do with my opinion?
Fanboy? This is my first Fuji....
The question was about the XP1. Pretty sure they were soliciting conviction.
PS: what are you talking about??

Neil, you sound like a turd, I'll be honest. But mostly, you're just incompetent. Forums are not for this sort of thing. Now that everyone can see what you're like (if they don't already know), I'd appreciate you not contact me privately about anything, much less such a childish attempt to make yourself feel better. Agree?
Neil said:
RealXenuis said:
Couldn't agree more. My wife is getting jealous. She's caught me fondling it several times, and occasionally I'll just stare at it.
Click to expand...
Sounds like that's not all your fondling Willie Wonker!

--
Neil
Click to expand...
 
My M9 has been specially tuned by Leica along with all my late Summicrons & Elmarits.

It was an expensive process after which, at 160 iso (my standard for landscape) it has an astonishing image quality which, so far, has not been bested by anything I could compare to, up and including D3x.

Right now I could not in any case get better results with fim M's since all my lenses' focus cams have been adjusted to the M9 "flange focal distance", which differs from film M's ( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1038&message=39775518 ) and would cause backfocus on film.

Best regards,

M

--
Mauro

http://www.maurobenphoto.com
http://www.romephotographyworkshop.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbenphoto
http://www.24per36.com/fotografi/mauro-benedetti
 
Mauro.B said:
Clint Dunn said:
Mauro....how can you sit in a Leica forum and make statements about the cost of a Fuji Xpro-1 kit ($3500) and keep a straight face?? Seriously, just one Summilux lens costs more than the entire Fuji kit?? Also ironic to slag Fuji for 'under-delivery' given Leica's history of one year wait times for lenses. Seriously, have you even touched a Leica product???? I have...I love them but I'm pretty intrigued by the XPro-1 and your negative points are just ridiculous.
Click to expand...
A few points for you:

1) Summilux will stay almost forever, the Xp1 in 2013 will almost be digital dust - blown aside by a much improved, hopefully full frame, Xp2. Let's compare annual obsolescence rate of Xp1 and any Leica product.

2) I do not know where you live, but here in Rome most Leica lenses are readily available, or after a few weeks wait. But I understand it's a limited market. Anyway, that's NOT the point. When a Leica product is delivered, it DELIVERS as is. Period. Any Fuji X (1, 10, 100,) needs to be ironed out here and there - according to individual tastes. That's what I define underdelivery on Fuji part. Or maybe I choose the wrong word out of haste.

3) I "more than touched" the Xp1 and decided not to buy it - too many quibbles between eye and scene for my taste. If Fuji manages to work out solutions to some issues that from my personal point of view are "deal breakers", I might reconsider. I agree with you, the Xp1 is an intriguing format. In any case, the Xp1 will return typical "small sensor" imaging, which signature I do not like that much. Man, there is not even raw support aside Silkypix. That's not "ridiculous", it's "tragic". Have you ever used Silkypix ? Seriously ? I used Sillypix with the X100 during the 3 weeks that it took me to realize that the camera was not up to the hype. I ended up converting all raf's into dng's. Peace.

4) If I ever touched a Leica ? Find out and, please, keep laughing - I feel better when people mood improves.

Best regards,

M
Click to expand...
Re point 1) Mauro, an XPro1 will certainly not be 'digital dust' in 2013....unless you're a gearhead with GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). I would bet that the XPro1 will have a more advanced sensor than whatever Leica is flogging at the time if recent history is any indication.

Re point 2) As for your comment that Fuji 'underdelivers" on the product, I assume you mean the FW updates that will inevitably come out. Need I remind you of the M8 release and the whole UV/IR debacle....or the M9 and the problem with some memory cards corrupting. The point being that Leica is as guilty as every other manufacturer...

Re Point 3 - I actually agree with you re the small sensor, I wish the XPro1 was full frame. With that said, aside from not being able to get as shallow a DOF, the crop sensor outperforms the M9 in every other way. As for RAW support, you don't seriously think you'll have to stick with Sillypix...give me a break the camera has only been out a few weeks. Give it a month or so and Photoshop/Aperture/Lightroom will all support the files.

Anyway, think what you like but your arguments are weak at best.
 
Hey RealXeinous,

Can I call you Tex (easier for us Aussies to spell) instead of all your fondling and looking at your poor mans Leica shouldn't you go out and take some great photographs with it? The Fuji does look a little like a Leica from a distance so can understand your infatuation and need for convince yourself however it's only a camera. Then post your pics and show us what it/you can do. Then maybe you might actually convince someone here on the Leica Forum as to it's abilities. Until then you and I vary greatly in opinion. Just remember mate try not to get sticky fingers on your lens.

Signed the Turd :-)

PS You're good fun, it's about time the forum was livened up a bit just like on the Nikon Canon fannboy forums.
RealXenuis said:
"Apr 19, 2012 07:02:20

Interestingly I see you haven't posted any pictures to the forum but we both know why don't we. Do you ever travel?

Seriously though, why are you on the Leica forum if you're such a Fuji fanboy. You ain't going to convince anyone there you know. Are you on commission? They could all afford a Fuji whatever if they wanted
Neil

PS People spell quite differently in other countries but you probably do not understand that. After all you are from Texas so or so you say. Have a nice day now big boy ya' hear!"

What does posting pics have anything to do with my opinion?
Fanboy? This is my first Fuji....
The question was about the XP1. Pretty sure they were soliciting conviction.
PS: what are you talking about??

Neil, you sound like a turd, I'll be honest. But mostly, you're just incompetent. Forums are not for this sort of thing. Now that everyone can see what you're like (if they don't already know), I'd appreciate you not contact me privately about anything, much less such a childish attempt to make yourself feel better. Agree?
Neil said:
RealXenuis said:
Couldn't agree more. My wife is getting jealous. She's caught me fondling it several times, and occasionally I'll just stare at it.
Click to expand...
Sounds like that's not all your fondling Willie Wonker!

--
Neil
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Neil
 
Clint Dunn said:
Re point 1) Mauro, an XPro1 will certainly not be 'digital dust' in 2013....unless you're a gearhead with GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). I would bet that the XPro1 will have a more advanced sensor than whatever Leica is flogging at the time if recent history is any indication.
Click to expand...
You are contradicting yourself. If in 2013 "the XPro1 will have a more advanced sensor", it will be a Xp2, correct. Therefore, by 2013 the current Xp1 will be obsolete and its value as a camera badly cut. That was exactly my point and you actually confirmed it, albeit unwillfully.
Clint Dunn said:
Re point 2) As for your comment that Fuji 'underdelivers" on the product, I assume you mean the FW updates that will inevitably come out. Need I remind you of the M8 release and the whole UV/IR debacle....or the M9 and the problem with some memory cards corrupting. The point being that Leica is as guilty as every other manufacturer...
Click to expand...
You can have any opinion on "IV UR debacle", that was a nasty feature of the M8 which was totally fixable on user's part and did not detract from usability, and M9 memory card corrupting (Nikon cameras list accepted memory in the back end of manual, other brand do corrupt files sometimes).

I'd like Fuji to test cameras before dumping them to market. For instance, a camera "must" let the user at least one effective way of focusing. The Xp1 can be extremely weak on autofocus (35mm, low ligh - try by yourself) and not easy to manual focus or zone focus. And, if you switch to evf as to avoid parallax reframing or to get exact framing, image freezes during focus hunt and you cannot follow moving subjects.

I could go on, but the Fuji forum if filled with other minor complaints. My shooting "habits" require either at least efficient manual focusing (spot / zone) or quick and precise autofocus. Both would be best. As it is, the Xp1 does not fully deliver either of the two. Clearly, your requirements may be different, and I respect that.
Clint Dunn said:
Re Point 3 - I actually agree with you re the small sensor, I wish the XPro1 was full frame. With that said, aside from not being able to get as shallow a DOF, the crop sensor outperforms the M9 in every other way. As for RAW support, you don't seriously think you'll have to stick with Sillypix...give me a break the camera has only been out a few weeks. Give it a month or so and Photoshop/Aperture/Lightroom will all support the files.
Click to expand...
Give me a break, give me a break... what an abused sentence. Take any break you want, clearly saving your neck in the process :)

Shallow dof is one of the most important aspects in photography outside landscape. Small sensors usually return cluttered images. Software can help, but I do not like.

When LR / Ap will supporte the Xp1, I will reassess IQ. It is not clear wheteher Fuji is available to give Adobe, Apple and other the sensor exact structure, as current demosaicing algorithms work for the generally adopted Bayer sensors. Let's wait and see.
Clint Dunn said:
Anyway, think what you like but your arguments are weak at best.
Click to expand...
I'm not thta sure, my friend.

--
Mauro

http://www.maurobenphoto.com
http://www.romephotographyworkshop.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbenphoto
http://www.24per36.com/fotografi/mauro-benedetti
 
A Diamond is ...sorry it was DeBeers slogan :)
Leica's proper one is "a Leica is forever", right?

The issue here is Leica film marketing strategy is not applicable to digital photography at all.

BTW limiting sensor size helps address the angle of incidence issue on a digital sensor's perimeter that might help rangefinder optics works better in case of digital implementation. APC-S with proper designed Fujinon might be descent approach.

The images I saw so far from XPro with 35mm are very films's Leica alike colors especially. Another intriguing instrument is Pentax K01 with smcP FA 31mm f1.8.

IMHO both cameras deliver the level of IQ that the final image limiting factor would be photographer skills in 99% cases.

And my opinion smc PENTAX FA 31 f1.8 is a far better investment than Leica M Summicron 35 f2.0 in terms of resale losses.
 
Can I call you Turd? My fave part of your narrative is your suggestion that I'm a fanboy when you've only posted in Leica forums....

The XP1 looks like a lot of things, all of them lovely. I'm sure you feel the same way about your Leicas. I think they're nice too. I guess I don't get your point.

I'm only infatuated with you, the interesting and clever one from Australia! The Land of Vegemite! Where can I buy seeds for that? We have similar climates.

"..shouldn't you go out and take some great photographs with it?" says the dude who sends PM's to random strangers on forums for daring enter their Leica stronghold?

I still don't get your thing about posting photos. You're making a confused leap there, mate.

Why are you obsessed with masturbation?
  • Tex
Neil said:
Can I call you Tex (easier for us Aussies to spell) instead of all your fondling and looking at your poor mans Leica shouldn't you go out and take some great photographs with it? The Fuji does look a little like a Leica from a distance so can understand your infatuation and need for convince yourself however it's only a camera. Then post your pics and show us what it/you can do. Then maybe you might actually convince someone here on the Leica Forum as to it's abilities. Until then you and I vary greatly in opinion. Just remember mate try not to get sticky fingers on your lens.

Signed the Turd :-)

PS You're good fun, it's about time the forum was livened up a bit just like on the Nikon Canon fannboy forums.
RealXenuis said:
"Apr 19, 2012 07:02:20

Interestingly I see you haven't posted any pictures to the forum but we both know why don't we. Do you ever travel?

Seriously though, why are you on the Leica forum if you're such a Fuji fanboy. You ain't going to convince anyone there you know. Are you on commission? They could all afford a Fuji whatever if they wanted
Neil

PS People spell quite differently in other countries but you probably do not understand that. After all you are from Texas so or so you say. Have a nice day now big boy ya' hear!"

What does posting pics have anything to do with my opinion?
Fanboy? This is my first Fuji....
The question was about the XP1. Pretty sure they were soliciting conviction.
PS: what are you talking about??

Neil, you sound like a turd, I'll be honest. But mostly, you're just incompetent. Forums are not for this sort of thing. Now that everyone can see what you're like (if they don't already know), I'd appreciate you not contact me privately about anything, much less such a childish attempt to make yourself feel better. Agree?
Neil said:
RealXenuis said:
Couldn't agree more. My wife is getting jealous. She's caught me fondling it several times, and occasionally I'll just stare at it.
Click to expand...
Sounds like that's not all your fondling Willie Wonker!

--
Neil
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Neil
Click to expand...
 
RealXenuis said:
Can I call you Turd?
Click to expand...
snip
folks take liberties they normally would not
--
--
pbase & dpreview supporter
DPR forum member since 5/2001
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke

"Avoid making a commotion, just as you wouldn’t stir up the water before fishing. Don’t use a flash out of respect for the natural lighting, even when there isn’t any. If these rules aren’t followed, the photographer becomes unbearably obtrusive" -- attributed to HCB
 
Tex, call me anything you like but don't knock our Vegemite... ;-)

I'm sure my wife has called me much worse than anything else I will hear on the forum.

On a more relevant note, my daughters boyfriend Aaron has the new Fuji and we went out together over Easter and shot some pictures. Actually I was impressed with his results. If his camera had a full frame sensor, was a bit more 'solid' and a rangefinder viewfinder I feel it would a closer match against my M9 cameras. I only use Photoshop CS5 and couldn't view his raw files but between you & me his results (daylight) weren't too bad at all - shhh. Here he is is on the Easter break using his new Fuji XPro.





--
Neil
 
I see the same thing on the Fuji forum. Exactly how you describe, but replace "Leica" with "Fuji". That probably means something.
starwolfy said:
I've been reading this thread for few minutes and you do smell like a troll.

Any time there is a new camera around the corner people come on this forum to explain that we went the wrong way buying our expensive M and that Leica will soon sink because the camera X, Y or Z has better isos and an Autofocus.

Still...we are all here...maybe the answer to all of this might be that most of M users are not techie fans which consider a Specs list as a go/no go when buying a camera.

Before the X Pro 1 here are the cameras which were about to kill the M:
  • now X Pro 1
  • before NEX 7
  • before X100
  • before NEX5n
  • before NEX5
  • etc etc etc and I don't talk about Canikon
Since the X Pro 1 is here...where are all those Nex5n, Nex 7 whaterver fans??? I guess they switched their entire system for the best "new" camera I guess...but still...we are here shooting the same body and lenses.
Click to expand...
 
That is a nice pic, and lovely daughter. You wouldn't want a copy of your M9 though, would you? I presume you bought it because you REALLY liked it. I don't think it's a competition (i.e. "match"). You said you saw the XP1 as a Leica wannabe. I couldn't disagree more, I very specifically wanted what it offered and would never think to look to a Leica to get that. Other than general form factor, the differences are pretty big, though they're both fine cameras. I wouldn't turn away a Leica, just like I wouldn't an XP1 (but I would an DSLR).

I'm just jealous of your locale - we ALMOST pulled the trigger on a vacation there last year. Went to Iceland instead for a few reasons, but I'm dying to visit Australia. I live in Austin and I consider some areas of Australia "Austin with a beach". I'd love to be proven wrong or right in person..the reefs alone..anyway, I'll strop drooling on here. Please tell your govt to lower the exchange rate so I can afford to travel there. Thanks

-Tex
Neil said:
Tex, call me anything you like but don't knock our Vegemite... ;-)

I'm sure my wife has called me much worse than anything else I will hear on the forum.

On a more relevant note, my daughters boyfriend Aaron has the new Fuji and we went out together over Easter and shot some pictures. Actually I was impressed with his results. If his camera had a full frame sensor, was a bit more 'solid' and a rangefinder viewfinder I feel it would a closer match against my M9 cameras. I only use Photoshop CS5 and couldn't view his raw files but between you & me his results (daylight) weren't too bad at all - shhh. Here he is is on the Easter break using his new Fuji XPro.





--
Neil
Click to expand...
 
Pretty much wrong on every point. Will the M9 be obsolete at next iteration? Of course not. The M-problems are not problems? I see. That seems reasonable (?). Based on your comments of XP1 AF/MF, I assume you've never used nor own it, b/c they're just false. Why comment if you don't know what you're talking about, right? Shallow DOF is "one of the most important aspects of photography" really? Wow. And to those that it is, you can't get shallow DOF on an APS-C at f/1.4? Or with a 60 at f/2.4? Congratulations Prof. Mauro for rewriting the laws of optics! So confusing. Even a LITTLE temperance goes a really long way.
Mauro.B said:
Clint Dunn said:
Re point 1) Mauro, an XPro1 will certainly not be 'digital dust' in 2013....unless you're a gearhead with GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). I would bet that the XPro1 will have a more advanced sensor than whatever Leica is flogging at the time if recent history is any indication.
Click to expand...
You are contradicting yourself. If in 2013 "the XPro1 will have a more advanced sensor", it will be a Xp2, correct. Therefore, by 2013 the current Xp1 will be obsolete and its value as a camera badly cut. That was exactly my point and you actually confirmed it, albeit unwillfully.
Mauro.B said:
Re point 2) As for your comment that Fuji 'underdelivers" on the product, I assume you mean the FW updates that will inevitably come out. Need I remind you of the M8 release and the whole UV/IR debacle....or the M9 and the problem with some memory cards corrupting. The point being that Leica is as guilty as every other manufacturer...
Click to expand...
You can have any opinion on "IV UR debacle", that was a nasty feature of the M8 which was totally fixable on user's part and did not detract from usability, and M9 memory card corrupting (Nikon cameras list accepted memory in the back end of manual, other brand do corrupt files sometimes).

I'd like Fuji to test cameras before dumping them to market. For instance, a camera "must" let the user at least one effective way of focusing. The Xp1 can be extremely weak on autofocus (35mm, low ligh - try by yourself) and not easy to manual focus or zone focus. And, if you switch to evf as to avoid parallax reframing or to get exact framing, image freezes during focus hunt and you cannot follow moving subjects.

I could go on, but the Fuji forum if filled with other minor complaints. My shooting "habits" require either at least efficient manual focusing (spot / zone) or quick and precise autofocus. Both would be best. As it is, the Xp1 does not fully deliver either of the two. Clearly, your requirements may be different, and I respect that.
Mauro.B said:
Re Point 3 - I actually agree with you re the small sensor, I wish the XPro1 was full frame. With that said, aside from not being able to get as shallow a DOF, the crop sensor outperforms the M9 in every other way. As for RAW support, you don't seriously think you'll have to stick with Sillypix...give me a break the camera has only been out a few weeks. Give it a month or so and Photoshop/Aperture/Lightroom will all support the files.
Click to expand...
Give me a break, give me a break... what an abused sentence. Take any break you want, clearly saving your neck in the process :)

Shallow dof is one of the most important aspects in photography outside landscape. Small sensors usually return cluttered images. Software can help, but I do not like.

When LR / Ap will supporte the Xp1, I will reassess IQ. It is not clear wheteher Fuji is available to give Adobe, Apple and other the sensor exact structure, as current demosaicing algorithms work for the generally adopted Bayer sensors. Let's wait and see.
Mauro.B said:
Anyway, think what you like but your arguments are weak at best.
Click to expand...
I'm not thta sure, my friend.

--
Mauro

http://www.maurobenphoto.com
http://www.romephotographyworkshop.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbenphoto
http://www.24per36.com/fotografi/mauro-benedetti
Click to expand...
 
disambiguated said:
Four things about the M9 bother me - no auto-focus, no weather-sealing, slow fps, and sub-par low-light performance (though it isn't nearly as bad as many folks claim). Even with manual focus, I've been able to capture some moving/running subjects, but it would be nice to have the option for auto-focus.
Click to expand...
When you think about it, those 4 things are part of the nature of every M Leica ever made ( your last one particularly so in the film era :-| ). You can, of course, take this all the way back to the first Leica 35mm model from 1923. Maybe they will make it 100 years without adding what you miss.....LOL.....chances are good..
--
Bob
 
Am I thinking of selling my M9P for a Fuji?
No ... I am not.
If I were to sell it for a Fuji camera I should have my a$$ removed.
 
RealXenuis is back from his grave with some more time to waste.

You are right and correct and whatever.

M
RealXenuis said:
Pretty much wrong on every point. Will the M9 be obsolete at next iteration? Of course not. The M-problems are not problems? I see. That seems reasonable (?). Based on your comments of XP1 AF/MF, I assume you've never used nor own it, b/c they're just false. Why comment if you don't know what you're talking about, right? Shallow DOF is "one of the most important aspects of photography" really? Wow. And to those that it is, you can't get shallow DOF on an APS-C at f/1.4? Or with a 60 at f/2.4? Congratulations Prof. Mauro for rewriting the laws of optics! So confusing. Even a LITTLE temperance goes a really long way.
Click to expand...
--
Mauro

http://www.maurobenphoto.com
http://www.romephotographyworkshop.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbenphoto
 
? That's it? Ok.
Mauro.B said:
You are right and correct and whatever.

M
RealXenuis said:
Pretty much wrong on every point. Will the M9 be obsolete at next iteration? Of course not. The M-problems are not problems? I see. That seems reasonable (?). Based on your comments of XP1 AF/MF, I assume you've never used nor own it, b/c they're just false. Why comment if you don't know what you're talking about, right? Shallow DOF is "one of the most important aspects of photography" really? Wow. And to those that it is, you can't get shallow DOF on an APS-C at f/1.4? Or with a 60 at f/2.4? Congratulations Prof. Mauro for rewriting the laws of optics! So confusing. Even a LITTLE temperance goes a really long way.
Click to expand...
--
Mauro

http://www.maurobenphoto.com
http://www.romephotographyworkshop.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbenphoto
Click to expand...
 
He has had Canon, Pentax, Nikon and lord knows what else in about a year.
Evidently none of them are good enuff.
Now he compares Fuji to an M9.

He couldn't use an M9 as it is way over his head. Not to worry. Money is the obvious downfall for the boy.
 
Huh? Me?
MilSooper said:
He has had Canon, Pentax, Nikon and lord knows what else in about a year.
Evidently none of them are good enuff.
Now he compares Fuji to an M9.

He couldn't use an M9 as it is way over his head. Not to worry. Money is the obvious downfall for the boy.
Click to expand...
 
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