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Dr. Noodle

Dr. Noodle

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As I promised in to a previous post here are my first panoramic experiments with Nodal ninja 3 MKII pano head and the Canon S90 as the attached camera.

The primary stuff for these are Jpeg files, but my next tries will engage RAW for even better results.

Here is a link to my personal site the first pano is from Fuji S100fs the next two from the Canon S90, please press the "Click for 360º projection" in order to enjoy them in full 360 degrees VR.

I would be thankful for any comments and critiques specially for the site setup if is working fine in your computer and your Internet connection.

I don't know what happens with apple users as these files (in VR mode) are Flash files so any input from apple users will be very useful too.
Thanks in advance
mike

So here is the Link
http://www.spiridakis.gr/pano_land
--
http://www.spiridakis.gr
 
Eagles48 said:
They work fine on my mac.
Paul
Click to expand...
Thank you for the input Paul, I am not familiar with Apple, and I know about that there is Apple Quick Time VR too, that the software I use to compile (Pano2VR) is capable to make too... But I wish that with only Flash files to be able to do the job
Anyway thanks again.
mike

--
http://www.spiridakis.gr
 
hi michael.
nice panos and it works fine.

i'm still wondering. the legs of the tripod will not cover the same part of the soil in each picture, but how will light from the nadir hit the 'nodal point' (actually the entrance pupil)?

maybe my brain is getting old. will some light just hit the outer part of the lens and thus get caught?
/ hac
 
ha_c said:
hi michael.
nice panos and it works fine.

i'm still wondering. the legs of the tripod will not cover the same part of the soil in each picture, but how will light from the nadir hit the 'nodal point' (actually the entrance pupil)?

maybe my brain is getting old. will some light just hit the outer part of the lens and thus get caught?
Click to expand...
Hi ha_c and thanks for your input... I really can't understand what you exactly are asking me about the nadir point and the tripod.... but if you ask me why the tripod is not visible as it has to be... the answer is because the last picture of the nadir point I shoot it with the tripod removed from its original position... actually at the moment that I am still in a self training process I take two pictures one with the tripod in it's original place and one with the tripod removed... Then with the right tools I can do further pp in to the nadir point section of the panorama...
Thanks again - mike

--
http://www.spiridakis.gr
 
Hi Michael ! The panos are good but have some quirks:

On the first one the buttons are placed chaotically ( or I can't see some of them);

Fullscreen button does not work on my PC (Maybe You have to embed html file in the Pano2vr settings);

With my slow internet connection it takes about 7-9 seconds to fully load the pano.

Personally I use JPG compression set to 8 or 9 and width of image about 3500-4000 px- it loads much faster.
You can look at my gallery there: http://svit-navkolo.com/category/3d-panoramy/
and there: http://svit-navkolo.com/category/virtualnye-tury/
 
matveich said:
Hi Michael ! The panos are good but have some quirks:
Click to expand...
Good morning from Greece matveich, thanks its nice to hear it from an expert like you... I am really in the beginning with panoramas and I feel that I have just discover the top of the iceberg.... LOL, I had a look at your galleries your job is absolutely PERFECT, its obvious that you know what you are doing there... congratulations from me...
matveich said:
On the first one the buttons are placed chaotically ( or I can't see some of them);
Click to expand...
You are right you can't see some of them coz I have remove them... I am just playing a little for the moment waiting for an answer...
matveich said:
Fullscreen button does not work on my PC (Maybe You have to embed html file in the Pano2vr settings);
Click to expand...
Well this is the answer I am talking about I have mail to zenfolio where I am hosting my pictures and I have ask them the same... Why the h....l the full screen mode/button is not working.... well generally something stupid is happeing with zenfolio at the moment, although they allow now a number of different video formats to be uploaded and published they don't allow ####.swf files so I have upload them to photobucket and embed them in my custom pages there...

So something goes wrong in this process because the fiels are fully functionable in photobucket.
matveich said:
With my slow internet connection it takes about 7-9 seconds to fully load the pano.

Personally I use JPG compression set to 8 or 9 and width of image about 3500-4000 px- it loads much faster.
Click to expand...
You are right I am still playing with all these and thats why I did this post to receive some user info like yours... and thank you again for this... mine are much bigger @ 12 Mpxls and Tiff so yes I have to play more with these things...

What software are you using both for panorama stitch and for VR compiling I like very much your buttons skin...
matveich said:
You can look at my gallery there: http://svit-navkolo.com/category/3d-panoramy/
and there: http://svit-navkolo.com/category/virtualnye-tury/
Click to expand...
Oh yes.... I did it.. and your job is remarkably GOOD... excellent is the right word...
Thanks friend...
mike
--
http://www.spiridakis.gr
 
Spiridakis Michael said:
What software are you using both for panorama stitch and for VR compiling I like very much your buttons skin...
Click to expand...
I use Hugin for stitching, for VR compiling - the same program as You ;)
You can easy make custom buttons - just go to "edit skin" menu of your program.
Thank you very much for looking! I am also just learning.
Greetings from Ukraine. Oleg
 
matveich said:
Spiridakis Michael said:
What software are you using both for panorama stitch and for VR compiling I like very much your buttons skin...
Click to expand...
I use Hugin for stitching, for VR compiling - the same program as You ;)
You can easy make custom buttons - just go to "edit skin" menu of your program.
Thank you very much for looking! I am also just learning.
Greetings from Ukraine. Oleg
Click to expand...
Hey Oleg I have just make everything to work perfect finally the full screen button was not working because I had to add a stupid parameter to the HTML link in the embed field... The parameter was this one ( allowFullScreen="true") without the () if you ever has a trouble like this just add these few words in the link...

So you use Hugin..... I am still trying with it, its a monster.... how about camera and lens... I am in the process to decide a dedicated solution, and although firstly I had abandon the Fuji X10 and I was thinking for canon GX1 or G12, now I am returning to the X10 idea... the reason is the fast CMOS sensor with the 7fps that may save me from a fish eye lens.. what do you think...???

--
http://www.spiridakis.gr
 
Enjoyed viewing your experiments with 360 degree panos. Some day I might venture to experiment.
--
J Janasik
 
herbiecook said:
Great Panos. I really enjoyed the one in the village.
Click to expand...
Really...?? I was thinking that as these are my first and basically are experimental... a little more drama (speaking for the weather) was needed... a digital recorder is in my plans so to add original surrounding sounds...
--
http://www.spiridakis.gr
 
Michael, currently I use Nikon D300 with Samyang 8 mm fisheye, Tokina 11-16, sometimes Zenitar 16.

My opinion is that Samyang 8 mm is the best solution for fast spherical panoramas - you take 7 frames: 5 in a row +zenith+nadir. It is cheap and has different mount options to buy: m4/3, Nikon, EOS, SONY, Pentax. Tokina is the sharper one but needs two rows to shoot. So, maybe You need something from m4/3 and Samyang?
http://www.samyang.pl/index.php/en/samyang-75mm-135-umc-fish-eye-mft

Unfortunantly I haven't tried Fuji for panoramas yet, but I want to shoot a gigapan with my friend's HS20 (used to do it with Nikkor 70-300 - not bad, about 3,8 GigaPx!)

B.t.w, how many shots you make with fuji for one panorama? (with Zenitar-16, equal to 24 mm it took me two rows with 12 frames in each).
 
hi michael.

you answered my question and also gave the most smart way to align the handheld picture with those from the tripod, thank you !
/ hac
 
matveich said:
Michael, currently I use Nikon D300 with Samyang 8 mm fisheye, Tokina 11-16, sometimes Zenitar 16.

My opinion is that Samyang 8 mm is the best solution for fast spherical panoramas - you take 7 frames: 5 in a row +zenith+nadir. It is cheap and has different mount options to buy: m4/3, Nikon, EOS, SONY, Pentax. Tokina is the sharper one but needs two rows to shoot. So, maybe You need something from m4/3 and Samyang?
http://www.samyang.pl/index.php/en/samyang-75mm-135-umc-fish-eye-mft

Unfortunantly I haven't tried Fuji for panoramas yet, but I want to shoot a gigapan with my friend's HS20 (used to do it with Nikkor 70-300 - not bad, about 3,8 GigaPx!)

B.t.w, how many shots you make with fuji for one panorama? (with Zenitar-16, equal to 24 mm it took me two rows with 12 frames in each).
Click to expand...
Good morning Oleg and thanks for the info, at the moment the camera I use to shoot and experiment with panoramas is my little (pls don't laugh), Canon S90, I don't own a dSLR in order to add a lens like fish eye or ultra wide, I have choose the S90 between my other cameras for a number of reasons like that it has a centered to the lens tripod mount, can shoot RAW+jpeg, etc... with this setup I shoot 3 raws of 12 pictures each, and one for Zenith and one for Nadir that makes them 38 pictures total the camera is 28mm equiv. and I shoot one shot every 30 degrees in horizontal and one raw every 45 degreed in vertical...

No problem the setup is perfectly working in internal spaces and my only (little) problem is the Nadir shot which I have to shoot very carefully as the 28mm seems to be not enough to forgive any mistake at this moment...

So I was thinking to setup a camera like this because I am thinking to make a small setup to be able to be fitted in a fairly small bag... all the things pano head (I choose Nodal Ninja 3 MKII coz it is a small thing) together in a small bag... this is my plan...

But the problem I have is with the outside places where, specially when the sky is absolutely clear, I get often too many orphan images that is a big trouble to manage even manually in stitching processes.

The truth is I still haven't try my 24mm camera, and I wish to know in which focal length this phenomenon is getting really better... is this 18mm 21mm or 24mm are ok....

Plus, that there is a problem to shoot panos in crowded spaces with objects or people that moving around where you have to be quickly and catch them at once.. so the wider the lens the better..........

On the other hand a camera fast like the X10 which can run up to 7 fps can solve a lot of these problems I think...

I got the good (ok, one of their good) rotator the RD8 that has an absolutely smooth rotation when you set it to rotate free with no clicks per angle, so maybe 7fps plus free rotation may solve many problems...

Ok, you have this way to wait more time for "baking" in the stitching but you avoid the orphan images...
What do you think...???

Good morning from Greece and thanks for talking it is very interesting.
mike

--
http://www.spiridakis.gr
 
Mike, frankly I don't understand how 7 fps can help you to shoot panoramas. Or you want to use pano mode of the Fuji? To avoid orphaned images you have to shoot maybe 24 mm or wider. As I said, for 24 mm it takes 12+12+Zenith+Nadir, so you always have some ground in your shot. For 28 mm - I don't know.

Another one problem - as I know fuji uses some in-camera processing to fight distortion in wide angle shots, so it may be difficult to find nodal point in such a case (I don't know for sure !)
About quality - I am shure that X10 will deliver enough.
 
matveich said:
Mike, frankly I don't understand how 7 fps can help you to shoot panoramas. Or you want to use pano mode of the Fuji?
Click to expand...
No, the Nodal Ninja would help to make slightly better panoramas using Fuji's built-in panorama mode, but the quality would be pretty poor. I also wondered about how 7 fps could help him, and I think that Mike may have been thinking that by removing the RD8's detent screw, there wouldn't be any click stops, so the camera could rotate smoothly and quickly while the X10 is firing away in burst mode. The problems are 1. How to guarantee uniform rotation speed so that the angle between shots is fairly uniform, and 2. Could the shutter speed possibly be fast enough to avoid subject blur while the camera is rotating at a fairly high angular velocity. If the frame rate was fast enough, moving objects (people, dogs, clouds) wouldn't have enough time to move very far between shots, so they wouldn't be very likely to appear in two consecutive frames. I don't think that a high frame rate would really work, but if it could, the V1 has its tripod socket in line with the lens's axis, and it can shoot full resolution RAW+JPEG at 60 fps. So if the rotation speed is a little irregular, just select the appropriate frames and discard the rest. :)

matveich said:
Another one problem - as I know fuji uses some in-camera processing to fight distortion in wide angle shots, so it may be difficult to find nodal point in such a case (I don't know for sure !)
Click to expand...
You have to find the nodal point before taking any photos, and you can find many written techniques and videos by searching the web. Here's one video that shows how it's done using a Nodal Ninja :

http://www.red-door.co.uk/pages/productpages/nodal-ninja-parallax-nodal-point.html
 
Billx08 said:
You have to find the nodal point before taking any photos, and you can find many written techniques and videos by searching the web. Here's one video that shows how it's done using a Nodal Ninja :
Click to expand...
The problem is that X10 has non-TTL viewfinder, and it's already has parallax error, especially at the close distance. You can find nodal point using the LCD screen, but the image you see on the screen is already processed by camera software. Maybe I am theoretising too much....You can decide only if you try :).
 
matveich said:
Billx08 said:
You have to find the nodal point before taking any photos, and you can find many written techniques and videos by searching the web. Here's one video that shows how it's done using a Nodal Ninja :
Click to expand...
The problem is that X10 has non-TTL viewfinder, and it's already has parallax error, especially at the close distance. You can find nodal point using the LCD screen, but the image you see on the screen is already processed by camera software. Maybe I am theoretising too much....You can decide only if you try :).
Click to expand...
Even if the LCD image has been processed to some extent, when the camera/lens has been set to the location of the nodal point, the image of the two verticals will stay in-line as it passes through the lens while the camera is rotated, and that's how it should appear on the sensor. Processing might distort the shape of the line(s) but it shouldn't put a gap between them, as would happen if the camera mount was shifted away from the nodal point. Good point about not using the viewfinder for this, though. One of the videos that showed how to set up one of the Nodal Ninjas used a Coolpix P5100, which also has an optical viewfinder. That would have a problem also since the tripod socket and the OVF aren't in line with the lens axis. They're closer, so the error that it produces should be less.
 
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