Reading mode: Light Dark

A little snobby here, huh?

Go to last post
P

pjbailey

Leading Member
Messages
634
Reaction score
0
Location
MI, US
No matter what I do, or how I post it, you all seem to be a bit snooty here in Lighting Technique,...is there a reason for that? Should I just give up and quit trying? I love your advice and info, but sometime,..hum....that is all I can say...a little stuffy in here, huh?

Take care all of you,
--
PJ
 
Re do your profile and use a woman's name. They will line up to answer your questions..................;-)

kunza
PJ Bailey said:
No matter what I do, or how I post it, you all seem to be a bit
snooty here in Lighting Technique,...is there a reason for that?
Should I just give up and quit trying? I love your advice and
info, but sometime,..hum....that is all I can say...a little stuffy
in here, huh?

Take care all of you,
--
PJ
Click to expand...
 
Dave Kunze said:
Re do your profile and use a woman's name. They will line up to
answer your questions..................;-)

kunza
Click to expand...
Kunza,...

Interesting,..that is all I am missing? I was all braced for an all out onslaught from the first post,...this is MOST interesting,...should I change my user name to inspire responses? Again, very interesting...you chap, are okay for being bold enough to just say it!

PS...I am a woman,...just don't have a woman's name...is that a crime? I hope not,..naw,..I give these dudes more credit than that,..that are truely looking at artistic value and artistic comments..right guys? And gals?
Take care,
PJ
 
PJ Bailey said:
No matter what I do, or how I post it, you all seem to be a bit
snooty here in Lighting Technique,...is there a reason for that?
Click to expand...
Brace yourself PJ...

You have been a posting member at this site for three weeks. Let me just give you an insight to "lighting technique". You want snooty? I'll give you some @#$% snooty....

I spent two solid, straight years in school studying ONLY photography. All other english, math, humanities, languages out of the way. 2 years, 8 straight quarters, 150 something credit hours in photo only. Only breaking for holiday. Dedicated 50 hours a week to photo. I started in a class of 34 and at the end of the two years, 8 of the 32 graduated.

We were not allowed into the studio for 3 quarters. Photo 101 was DRILLED into our heads. Shooting, printing, testing, on and on and on and on.... @#$% drilled. Then in fourth quarter we were allowed to enter the holy of holies... the studio. And for that quarter we got to use ONE light. One very hot, very bright Lowel Omni. After 4 weeks with the one light we then got to use a 3x4 reflector.

Ok... so two years of that. Then 4 years of assisting in studios that cost more to outfit than a 4 bedroom house in the 'burbs. 10 hour days schleping for the real pros. The ones with 15, 20, 30 years of experience. Setting lights, painting, running for coffee for the Art Directors, lab runs at @#$% 2 am and picking it up on the way to work at @#$% 6 am to do it all over again.

Then... 3 years of lone shooter pro experience on my own.

Add it up.... 9 intense years of being around light and trying to capture it and still.... that light is ever elusive to me. I'm never getting it where I want it or when I want it. Still I struggle and struggle and struggle with it. @#$#@$# @#$#@ %$#% light rodeo.

Now, I learn around here and I try to give back. It is, at times, very difficult to translate 9 years of 7 days a week study and application to someone who is using @#$%%#@$# desk lamps for the last 2 weeks. I know what it is like to have to make it up as you go... or as one photographer I assited would say... "Fake it 'till you make it."

Do you want my raw and naked critique of your work as it stands right now from my viewpoint? Or do you want to be hand held and slowly taken forward through your development with soft forget me nots wispered in your ear? I'll give it to you raw because that is how it has always been handed to me. It was up to me to cook it.

I could be a real snooty @#$@#$@# hole right now and tell you that you have made progression but you are really wasting your time and that of those kids who sit in front of your camera. Now then... does that make you mad? How do you think the ones who might actually know what they are talking about feel when you come around here green as grass and call us snooty when your photos are downright horrible right now?

I see from your profile that you eventually want to make money with your camera. I'm all for that. What you need to do right now is slow down. Study more than shoot. Listen more than talk. Stay away from all those @#$@#%$# filters.

Once spring is here and you have a head full of ideas, theory, and knowledge, go use the sun and your reflectors. Get a good hold of that process and then save some money for lights for next winter. Also note that if your image gets bashed, it's not the person in the photo getting bashed. Divorce yourself from whatever emotional attachment you have to the photo when you post it for critique.

Do you want to be good? I mean do you really want to be a good photographer? Do you want to make some money at this and do it well? Then sit your novice @#$#@% down and listen to what people are saying and don't bite the hands that are your sole source of education at the moment.

Please excuse me. I'm in a horrible mood today and all sorts of things that could be going wrong for me are.... Its like my brain suddenly installed ^#@$%#$ Microsoft Windows as it's operating system. I try to reach out in love most days but this isn't one of those days and you unfortunately just got caught in the crossfire. Excuse the harshness but @#$#@$# .... Chill out PJ and slow down.

Cheers,
Zack Arias
Atlanta, GA

http://www.usedfilm.com
 
Hey Zack,

Could you please rename your reply 'For all you newbies' and post it as a new thread? You just summed up everything I've wanted to say for a long time. We come in here responding to either peers or trying to help those who ask for it. I applaud anyone trying to learn. But, if it has taken me 2 years of schooling and over 16 years to refine my craft, if someone learns it in a few weeks, I'm gonna be pretty upset.

To this day, I try and learn something new or experiment with some new ideas. Doesn't always work but that's okay. Most of the time I use tried and true methods I know work and pay the bills.

Lighting is an art all in itself. And not only should you start with very simple lighting, learn all the characteristics of it. Just throwing some light on a subject and asking 'how's this' tells me nothing. What 'exactly' did you do and why? What kind of light? What power/wattage? How from from the subject? Why? How for from the diffusion source? Why? How far is the subject to the diffusion source? Why? What f stop? Why? Etc. I remember having to write down every single detail of every shot in school just to have my instructor rip it apart.

Mike
 
PJ-

I am an amature like you, especially when it comes to studio lighting and techniques. Most other helpful users here are real pros and are sincerely trying to offer you advice to improve your pictures, and get them to approach pro results. If the goal of trying to get pro quality results is "stuffy" to you, then this is not the right place.

Unfortunately, without skill, even substantial effort does not always equal good results. People here are only trying to provide contructive and accurate feedback to improve your skills.

-Scott
PJ Bailey said:
No matter what I do, or how I post it, you all seem to be a bit
snooty here in Lighting Technique,...is there a reason for that?
Should I just give up and quit trying? I love your advice and
info, but sometime,..hum....that is all I can say...a little stuffy
in here, huh?

Take care all of you,
--
PJ
Click to expand...
 
Michael Collins said:
Hey Zack,
Could you please rename your reply 'For all you newbies' and post
it as a new thread?
Click to expand...
You just summed up everything I've wanted to
photolando said:
say for a long time.
Click to expand...
Amen.
photolando said:
We come in here responding to either peers or
trying to help those who ask for it. I applaud anyone trying to
learn. But, if it has taken me 2 years of schooling and over 16
years to refine my craft, if someone learns it in a few weeks, I'm
gonna be pretty upset.
Click to expand...
Not a chance they'll do that, even though some think they can. What frosts me, though, is the newbies (PJ is not one) that have crowned themselves king of the forum and pass along bad advice and worse links to other unsuspecting newbies. They post "look at me, ain't I grand" threads, then react hostily if anyone dares to actually offer criticism, no matter how gentle and warranted. I'd like to have them sit through just one crit at Art Center. It would have them running home to momma, crying all the way. Their ilk washed out of Art Center within two trimesters. To top it all off, they then have the gall to diss and insult pros who've been making a living at photography for years who generously share their knowledge and experience here.

Sorry to rant off topic. Those who get my goat are just a couple of the newbies here.

Doug
 
Judging by the pics you have posted in these forums, you are getting good advice.

You are at a very elementry level and love for photography is not enough, in your case. You have to learn how to see.

Educate yourself about photography, by studying photographs by the pro's.

Get some photography and lighting books, draw, do anything you can to teach yourself how light effects a 3 dimensional object.

Study values, whats too hot, what's too dark, etc...

I am also very new to photography (2 months with my Digital SLR) but I have a ton of education and experience in the visual arts. My education has helped me elevate my work rather quickly because I have an idea of what professional photos should look like and know how to use the tools to get them there.

I actually get paid to take photos and they turn out good because of my background (Good in the sense that people think it's stock photography).

Education...
 
This forum has offered me some great advice and I have learned what I can from just reading. I can feel the pain of going to school to do something for several years and then someone jumping in without school and doing the same thing. As bad as I hate that has happened to me it happens to all of us.

I am not a professional and will never be (shoot I may even stop calling myself an Amateur and list myself as a Wannabe Hobbyist with a camera and some shop lights from the garage). I will most likely always stay a crappy photographer that will never understand lighting or the true art of using light as art. Yet I sure enjoy the H-E-double tooth picks out of trying. I appreciate the people here that have given me advice and tips.

I guess we could turn this into a pay for advice/critique let’s make it $50 per advice/critique for everything handed out. Go to this link and pick something out it will lead everyone to my Pay pal account. http://cameras.about.com/cs/toppicks/tp/aatplightingbk.htm

If you can’t help, don’t like it, or can’t offer useful advice ignore the thread. If you can’t tell my venting for the day it feels good too.

Some more nonsense:

There have been many people in this forum that have offered me some great advice and I have learned a lot from just reading. Thanks for all the people that are willing and want to help. Yet I am still a crappy photographer and still don’t understand lighting. I do know if the sun is in my eyes I can’t see . I’m learning see
Ok now I’m done venting

Thanks for listening, Lets all smile and enjoy life it is all to short. In no way was this to insult anyone or downgrade. I just wanted to get in the conversation.

Sorry,

Perry
 
Hey Zack, Couple years ago, a critique of my work by you, set me on the path back to school, thanks, I'm 46, haven't had so much fun in years. As an engineer who did the time in school it's always irked me that non-degreed types get the title and pay without doing the education. I'm not sure why I thought photography would be different. I know better now. Your responces are to the point and sometimes what we need to here. Thanks. I've been kinda hinting these things to PJ, but I'm not as clear as you are.
 
[snip of a Great post]

Right on point Zack. I am gonna save that for when I feel my head starting to swell, or when I wonder why it is taking so long to get good results.

Thanks.

--
Valliesto
'A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five
minutes longer.'
  • R.W. Emerson
 
I fully understand Zack's position. I have spent the past 50 years in a completely different profession.

No matter what the profession, the experience gained over years of doing the same thing, and making mistakes along the way, can not be transferred to anyone else in a few paragraphs. All the help given in this, and other fourms, are only small parts of the big puzzle.

I am relatively new to this field and appreciate all the help, in what ever form it is presented. I get frustrated too, but at myself, not those trying to help.

As for being snooty, I have not seen this. However I can understand that professionals trying to help amateurs can get frustrated too. I know I do in my field. Sometimes it is easy, in text on a forum, to mis-judge the intent of the person presenting the information.

To all the lighting professionals - thanks for your help. Keep up the good work.

To all the amateurs and want-to-be professionals - accept the advice given graciously. Weed out the information that is obviously wrong and that which does not fit your questions or application. Excellence does not come over night. It comes with years of making mistakes and constant reading and doing.

For what it is worth.........

--
Lawrence
 
Zack Arias said:
PJ Bailey said:
No matter what I do, or how I post it, you all seem to be a bit
snooty here in Lighting Technique,...is there a reason for that?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Zack,

nothing wrong with a bad day, and i apologize for wanting everything all at once. I just can't seem to learn it fast enough, and then I take off in a whirlwind of flurry and activity.

Thank you for the xxxx words to bring me back down to earth and reality. I can take criticism and will back off a bit.

I actually just got a book called "Photography' written by Loondon, Upton, Kobre and Brill. There is an entire section devoted to lighting and I have started reading this to learn more.

I hope your day goes better, and coming from IT, I know that computers seem to have a way of wreaking havoc on our lives at times. The sun is shining brilliantly here at the moment, I hope some comes your way as well.

Take care,
PJ
 
Scott

I realize this, and I really am not a bad person, I was just having a really bad night. I hope they all cool off a bit and don't entirely write me off.

PJ
 
PGrimmett said:
This forum has offered me some great advice and I have learned what
I can from just reading. I can feel the pain of going to school to
do something for several years and then someone jumping in without
school and doing the same thing. As bad as I hate that has happened
to me it happens to all of us.

I am not a professional and will never be (shoot I may even stop
calling myself an Amateur and list myself as a Wannabe Hobbyist
with a camera and some shop lights from the garage). I will most
likely always stay a crappy photographer that will never understand
lighting or the true art of using light as art. Yet I sure enjoy
the H-E-double tooth picks out of trying. I appreciate the people
here that have given me advice and tips.

I guess we could turn this into a pay for advice/critique let’s
make it $50 per advice/critique for everything handed out. Go to
this link and pick something out it will lead everyone to my Pay
pal account.
http://cameras.about.com/cs/toppicks/tp/aatplightingbk.htm

If you can’t help, don’t like it, or can’t offer useful advice
ignore the thread. If you can’t tell my venting for the day it
feels good too.

Some more nonsense:
There have been many people in this forum that have offered me some
great advice and I have learned a lot from just reading. Thanks for
all the people that are willing and want to help. Yet I am still a
crappy photographer and still don’t understand lighting. I do know
if the sun is in my eyes I can’t see . I’m learning
see
Ok now I’m done venting

Thanks for listening, Lets all smile and enjoy life it is all to
short. In no way was this to insult anyone or downgrade. I just
wanted to get in the conversation.

Sorry,

Perry
Click to expand...
--
PJ
 
Lawrence Keeney said:
I fully understand Zack's position. I have spent the past 50 years
in a completely different profession.

No matter what the profession, the experience gained over years of
doing the same thing, and making mistakes along the way, can not be
transferred to anyone else in a few paragraphs. All the help given
in this, and other fourms, are only small parts of the big puzzle.

I am relatively new to this field and appreciate all the help, in
what ever form it is presented. I get frustrated too, but at
myself, not those trying to help.

As for being snooty, I have not seen this. However I can understand
that professionals trying to help amateurs can get frustrated too.
I know I do in my field. Sometimes it is easy, in text on a forum,
to mis-judge the intent of the person presenting the information.

To all the lighting professionals - thanks for your help. Keep up
the good work.

To all the amateurs and want-to-be professionals - accept the
advice given graciously. Weed out the information that is obviously
wrong and that which does not fit your questions or application.
Excellence does not come over night. It comes with years of making
mistakes and constant reading and doing.

For what it is worth.........

--
Lawrence
Click to expand...
--
PJ
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top