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Never seen it so bad
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
Richard Weisgrau
Veteran Member
Maybe, you ought to add your website to your signature here and elsewhere and on you emails. I do. If you want people to go to the site, you have to lead them there.
--
Richard Weisgrau
http://www.weisgrau.com
Author of
The Real Business of Photography
The Photographer's Guide to Negotiating
Selling Your Photography
Licensing Photography
--
Richard Weisgrau
http://www.weisgrau.com
Author of
The Real Business of Photography
The Photographer's Guide to Negotiating
Selling Your Photography
Licensing Photography
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
I'd bet a testicle (toward that sex change) that nobody here is going to ever be his, or my, or your, photographic customer.
What I'm reading is "I'm doing the same thing and traffic is down. Why?"
I don't pay attention to my website traffic (seems to have no bearing on anything anyway - just drives me nuts).
I'll get 5 calls in a day and then no calls for a week. It's just the way things work.
What can you do about it? Assuming you're down in work/money and this is the cause, then see if you've lost google ranking, some competitor has exclipsed you, etc. I've seen sites I"m listed with fall off google and new ones come along - no clue what the deal is.
Some of the most successful photogs i know have no or bare min websites. So far this year 90% of sales are not from my website.
--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford
What I'm reading is "I'm doing the same thing and traffic is down. Why?"
I don't pay attention to my website traffic (seems to have no bearing on anything anyway - just drives me nuts).
I'll get 5 calls in a day and then no calls for a week. It's just the way things work.
What can you do about it? Assuming you're down in work/money and this is the cause, then see if you've lost google ranking, some competitor has exclipsed you, etc. I've seen sites I"m listed with fall off google and new ones come along - no clue what the deal is.
Some of the most successful photogs i know have no or bare min websites. So far this year 90% of sales are not from my website.
--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford
drh681
Veteran Member
Are you on Facebook?
or Linked-in?
You also need a "real world " presence.
--
Photons by the bag.
Gravitons no longer shipped outside US or Canada
-----.....------
if I mock you, it may be well deserved.
or Linked-in?
You also need a "real world " presence.
--
Photons by the bag.
Gravitons no longer shipped outside US or Canada
-----.....------
if I mock you, it may be well deserved.
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
Craig
You're not the only one. And though we have discussed many theories as to why and how the industry has changed, I think that the guy in this video presents a very simple, succinct, and above all, sobering explanation.
http://smokingstrobes.com/climate
By the way, while I miss the days when I was booked all summer without even having to advertise, I'm a lot happier just shooting for fun instead of professionally and only taking those jobs which happen to come along on their own. The idea of feeding into all that Facebook narcissism and so forth was just such a huge turnoff. Wasn't me. I've re-discovered a great deal of fun in photography since working just part time in it.
You're not the only one. And though we have discussed many theories as to why and how the industry has changed, I think that the guy in this video presents a very simple, succinct, and above all, sobering explanation.
http://smokingstrobes.com/climate
By the way, while I miss the days when I was booked all summer without even having to advertise, I'm a lot happier just shooting for fun instead of professionally and only taking those jobs which happen to come along on their own. The idea of feeding into all that Facebook narcissism and so forth was just such a huge turnoff. Wasn't me. I've re-discovered a great deal of fun in photography since working just part time in it.
drh681
Veteran Member
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/09/Facebook-buys-Instagram
A celphone or I-pod and who needs a "photographer"?
--
Photons by the bag.
Gravitons no longer shipped outside US or Canada
-----.....------
if I mock you, it may be well deserved.
A celphone or I-pod and who needs a "photographer"?
--
Photons by the bag.
Gravitons no longer shipped outside US or Canada
-----.....------
if I mock you, it may be well deserved.
Apart from having a "real world presence" as drh681 suggested it may help if you went out and sourced new customers.
It may depend on the type of work you do but I've found that actively networking to look for new prospects/customers certainly helps (in sport and team photography anyway).
Sitting there waiting for i/net customers to appear and referrals to ring just doesn't cut it any more.
Zoooming
It may depend on the type of work you do but I've found that actively networking to look for new prospects/customers certainly helps (in sport and team photography anyway).
Sitting there waiting for i/net customers to appear and referrals to ring just doesn't cut it any more.
Zoooming
You should be networking. In 2007 a group of my fellow professional photographers created a networking group. Many of my colleagues had down time so when I needed photographers for my youth sports photography sessions, I alwasy relied on my trusted fellow friends.
So how did I do this? Easy. When I shoot NFL games I always see the same 15-20 photographers who come from all parts of the United States. We stayed in the same hotels, ate meals together and arrived at the stadiums together. We became close friends. This network of friends widened as we all know other photographers too.
When one of us is hurting for business, we refer some of our clients and leads to the hurting photographer. Of course, it is not all about taking. You have to give back too. right now, our group has over 350 professional photographers in it.
We can't all specialize in the same area of photography so when a certain job comes up and we do not have the expertise to do it, we refer the client to the appropriate photographer.
My group started when we saw a need. Instead of being hard nosed, three of my fellow photographers created our group so that we could take advantage of bulk purchasing power plus other benefits of being part of a larger group.
So how did I do this? Easy. When I shoot NFL games I always see the same 15-20 photographers who come from all parts of the United States. We stayed in the same hotels, ate meals together and arrived at the stadiums together. We became close friends. This network of friends widened as we all know other photographers too.
When one of us is hurting for business, we refer some of our clients and leads to the hurting photographer. Of course, it is not all about taking. You have to give back too. right now, our group has over 350 professional photographers in it.
We can't all specialize in the same area of photography so when a certain job comes up and we do not have the expertise to do it, we refer the client to the appropriate photographer.
My group started when we saw a need. Instead of being hard nosed, three of my fellow photographers created our group so that we could take advantage of bulk purchasing power plus other benefits of being part of a larger group.
matthias jurisch
Senior Member
cheer up Craig...let us see your website and maybe you can receive some feed back...if the restaurant owner complains about a lack of customers then there is usually something wrong with his menu or the cook ???
greetings
Matthias
http://www.foto-jurisch.de
greetings
Matthias
http://www.foto-jurisch.de
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
You are absolutely correct that there are MANY more women in the photography field than ever before. I've seen if for myself, and have a very long background in the industry by which to compare. And there are more amateurs, too. As I pointed out in another thread, just a few years ago there were only 3 others photographers listed on the internet as operating in my immediate area. Six months ago, there were more than 30 (I forgot the exact number, but it was a HUGE difference). And i have no doubt that there are probably even more, but without a dedicated website (maybe Facebook?). I was doing an engagement session a couple weeks ago at one of my usual shooting locations and saw TWO young women (both with entry-level DSLRs, by the way) shooting toddler and engagement portraits respectively. Sadly, I could tell from their technique that they had little skill beyond knowing how simply how to point and shoot, and the results were very likely quite poor by any skilled professional standard. But, for certain, these types of "girls and guys with cameras" have watered down the professional market, perhaps permanently. It may still takes years for the dust to settle so that the potential buying market understands the difference between a GAC (girl/guy with camera) and a skilled professional. As the fellow in the video I shared said, we are the dinosaurs.
I used to spend about 5% of my time marketing, advertising, etc., and got all the work I was interested in getting. Today, to get the same amount of work, I estimated I'd have to spend 40% or more of my time. I'm just not interested in that. I'm still getting work, but only the stuff which just falls into my lap. I'm not interested in actively marketing beyond that 5%, or depending upon photography for a full-time living, for that matter. I don't WANT to change, and I am willing to have less work for my decision. Shooting for fun is, well, fun again. I think, Craig, you're going to have to decide, too, whether you are willing AND capable of changing in order to stay in business. It's not as easy as it sounds, too. As you pointed out, there's plenty of ways to find out that what you're doing is wrong. But few answers as to how to do things right. It's a tough market these days, even if the economy were better.
I used to spend about 5% of my time marketing, advertising, etc., and got all the work I was interested in getting. Today, to get the same amount of work, I estimated I'd have to spend 40% or more of my time. I'm just not interested in that. I'm still getting work, but only the stuff which just falls into my lap. I'm not interested in actively marketing beyond that 5%, or depending upon photography for a full-time living, for that matter. I don't WANT to change, and I am willing to have less work for my decision. Shooting for fun is, well, fun again. I think, Craig, you're going to have to decide, too, whether you are willing AND capable of changing in order to stay in business. It's not as easy as it sounds, too. As you pointed out, there's plenty of ways to find out that what you're doing is wrong. But few answers as to how to do things right. It's a tough market these days, even if the economy were better.
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
I watched the video...it's the same BS I keep hearing from 'the new generation' - you are a dinosaur pursuing business the old way. the rules have changed
OK, dumbsh!t - if you're so smart and know so much, what are the new rules? /
I can't get an answer to that one. One that isn't vague and fuzzy.
OK, dumbsh!t - if you're so smart and know so much, what are the new rules? /
I can't get an answer to that one. One that isn't vague and fuzzy.
Is that the new rules...you can only do this part time? I fail to accept that.
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
That's what I've been doing and for 'commercial' photography it works. For consumer, I don't know. S
Is it gonna work to call every HS senior personally? Sounds great...unless you think of it as telemarketing which everyone hates.
WOM is great too - but if you need to expand your business 50% that's not enough. And over time those customers move, die, move on, whatever. A 2008 HS senior isn't likely to send a 2013 customer in, let alone 5 (as a 2013 might do)
PenguinPhotoCo
Veteran Member
Or is it the new restaurant down the street?
You could have a great business then walmart moves in and you're done for through no fault of your own.
My struggle is i'm stuck at the same level of business for 3 years now, and I do keep trying new things. Have I just not hit the right combo of things yet, or is there only this much business?
The baby doctors office can advertise all they want - but if folks are not having more babies each year they'll not be able to get new customers no way no how. (one hospital in my county, avg 115 births a month). If a new baby dr opens an office and gets customers there's only one place to get them from....other baby drs.
Perhaps diversify? My wedding gross sales are the same today they were in 2009...(prices go up and wed count goes down...) I had to diversify into seniors and sports leagues. Every league has a photographer...so when I sign a new league some other photog gets hurt. So it can work both ways.
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford
You could have a great business then walmart moves in and you're done for through no fault of your own.
My struggle is i'm stuck at the same level of business for 3 years now, and I do keep trying new things. Have I just not hit the right combo of things yet, or is there only this much business?
The baby doctors office can advertise all they want - but if folks are not having more babies each year they'll not be able to get new customers no way no how. (one hospital in my county, avg 115 births a month). If a new baby dr opens an office and gets customers there's only one place to get them from....other baby drs.
Perhaps diversify? My wedding gross sales are the same today they were in 2009...(prices go up and wed count goes down...) I had to diversify into seniors and sports leagues. Every league has a photographer...so when I sign a new league some other photog gets hurt. So it can work both ways.
--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
Photographers love to try and make "rules", don't they? 
Maybe some of us just don't want to spend so much time and money marketing, and don't mind working less because of it. I have other skills to help pay my bills.
Maybe some of us just don't want to spend so much time and money marketing, and don't mind working less because of it. I have other skills to help pay my bills.
Joe Federer
Senior Member
There are no hard-and-fast universal rules to success. Never were. If there were a cookbook, everyone could/would do it.
Make your clients happy, work on your skills, never stop trying to exceed what you did last time. That's about the only rules you're going to get... and they haven't changed.
--
JOE FEDERER
Websites:
http://www.joefederer.com
http://www.federerphotography.com/blog
http://www.theprofessionalphotographyforum.com/
Joe Federer
Senior Member
Right, it's called competition. Make your services worth your clients hard-earned money.
If you aren't worth it because a guy down the street offers a better product ... that IS your fault.
--
JOE FEDERER
Websites:
http://www.joefederer.com
http://www.federerphotography.com/blog
http://www.theprofessionalphotographyforum.com/
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