What happened to Canon sensor development?

carlk

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Canon apologist would say the 5DIII sensor is not a bad one and an improvement over the previous gen but I don’t see it that way. Yes it’s not a bad one if the world has been standing still but the technology landscape is very different now. One more MP and perhaps slightly better noise with no improvement in DR for three and half years while the rest of the world has been progressing in leaps and bounds just put them in such a bad position.

Three and half years ago Canon’s 21MP sensor had absolutely no peer. Few short years later everyone from phone camera to dslr sensor makers are able to develop much better sensors except for Canon. iPhone at that time had a noisy measly 2MP sensor. It now has an 8MP sensor that is able to take very nice pictures even in relatively low lights. Nokia’s 41MP sensor with varies crop and down sampling modes produces great low noise still and full HD video images. It even beats the 5DIII sensor in video over-sampling amount. Not to be lost here is those are sensors come with phones which cost just a small fraction of the high end dslr and can also make phone calls or surf the web.

On the higher end front Sony have the nice 36MP full frame sensor they made for Nikon camera and perhaps their own later. Even their aps-c sensor has more MP than Canon’s full frame sensor with IQ not far behind, or even exceeds it in certain areas. Fuji’s innovative aps-c sensor in X Pro 1 was said to be as good or better than most full frame dslr sensor for high or low ISO IQ. Imagine what if Canon have technologies similar to what Sony, Fuji and those phone sensor makers have to put into the latest camera? Is Canon supposed to be the leader or we are expecting too much?
 
Nokia’s 41MP sensor with varies crop and down sampling modes produces great low > noise still and full HD video images. It even beats the 5DIII sensor in video over- > sampling amount. Not to be lost here is those are sensors come with phones which > cost just a small fraction of the high end dslr and can also make phone calls or surf > the web.
Then all you have to buy is the Nokia.... ;)
What is it you want with this topic ??

--
Enjoy Photography
http://www.wildlife-photos.net
 
Canon might simply decided to upgrade their production line later.
before the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers,
Toyota was expanding aggressively and Honda was quite conservative.
Honda weathered the recession better than Toyota.
 
The 60Da modifications allow the camera to capture magnificent photographs of “red hydrogen emission” nebulae and other cosmic phenomena. This after the phenomenal 1Mp increase in the 5D line.
That should be enough for three more years!

Dan
 
And political reasons I would think. You don't know how the politics run in those big corporations. Any change of direction could mean power shift inside the company and there bound to be a lot of resistance.

On the other hand I felt Honda has been too conservative. They are not the innovative company especially in engineering as they were a decade or two ago.
Canon might simply decided to upgrade their production line later.
before the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers,
Toyota was expanding aggressively and Honda was quite conservative.
Honda weathered the recession better than Toyota.
 
Nokia’s 41MP sensor with varies crop and down sampling modes produces great low > noise still and full HD video images. It even beats the 5DIII sensor in video over- > sampling amount. Not to be lost here is those are sensors come with phones which > cost just a small fraction of the high end dslr and can also make phone calls or surf > the web.
Then all you have to buy is the Nokia.... ;)
What is it you want with this topic ??

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If you put it this way then how about we get something better than Nokia when we spend this much on a dslr?

Anyway you're trying to put it to the wrong context. The point for the example is how much phone camera sensors have progressed in the last 3 1/2 years vs. how much Canon did.
 
Carlk,

I'm basically with you on criticizing Canon. I may not switch to Nikon, but I definitely plan to add a D800 to my kit essentially for the modest IQ improvement the new 5D has over the last generation. .

However, you blew your credibility when you brought camera sensors into the discussion. You may not have intended to compare the Nokia and iPhone sensors to Canon's full-frame sensors, but you in effect did just that. And that comparison is absolutely absurd! Comparing Canon's sensors to an iPhone sensor is like comparing a Ferrari to a motorized golf cart. Over the last few years golf cart technology has improved remarkably fast--and clearly much faster than Ferraris have improved--, but you have to be kidding to compare the two.

Would you upgrade your Ferrari to the latest, greatest, and much improved, golf cart?
Nokia’s 41MP sensor with varies crop and down sampling modes produces great low > noise still and full HD video images. It even beats the 5DIII sensor in video over- > sampling amount. Not to be lost here is those are sensors come with phones which > cost just a small fraction of the high end dslr and can also make phone calls or surf > the web.
Then all you have to buy is the Nokia.... ;)
What is it you want with this topic ??

--
If you put it this way then how about we get something better than Nokia when we spend this much on a dslr?

Anyway you're trying to put my example to the wrong context. The point is how much phone camera sensor progressed in the last 3 1/2 years vs. how much Canon did.
 
Canon apologist would say the 5DIII sensor is not a bad one and an improvement over the previous gen but I don’t see it that way. Yes it’s not a bad one if the world has been standing still but the technology landscape is very different now. One more MP and perhaps slightly better noise with no improvement in DR for three and half years while the rest of the world has been progressing in leaps and bounds just put them in such a bad position.
Canon has nothing to apologize for. You are just bashing Canon for no good reason.
Three and half years ago Canon’s 21MP sensor had absolutely no peer. Few short years later everyone from phone camera to dslr sensor makers are able to develop much better sensors except for Canon.
Prove it.
iPhone at that time had a noisy measly 2MP sensor. It now has an 8MP sensor that is able to take very nice pictures even in relatively low lights.
That does not prove anything.
Nokia’s 41MP sensor with varies crop and down sampling modes produces great low noise still and full HD video images. It even beats the 5DIII sensor in video over-sampling amount. Not to be lost here is those are sensors come with phones which cost just a small fraction of the high end dslr and can also make phone calls or surf the web.
SO, is it your claim that Nokia's sensor is better than the 5DIII sensor?
On the higher end front Sony have the nice 36MP full frame sensor they made for Nikon camera and perhaps their own later. Even their aps-c sensor has more MP than Canon’s full frame sensor
So, you judge sensors solely by megapixels count. No wonder you don't think much about the new Canon sensor. That is similar to deciding who Miss USA should be by measuring the chest of all of the contestants with a measuring tape.
with IQ not far behind, or even exceeds it in certain areas.
Prove it. Are you saying that the Canon 7D has better image quality than the 5DIII?
Fuji’s innovative aps-c sensor in X Pro 1 was said to be as good or better than most full frame dslr sensor for high or low ISO IQ.
How? Does it have more pixels than the Canon sensor? Can it resolve as many lines per mm with a lens set at f/11?
Imagine what if Canon have technologies similar to what Sony, Fuji and those phone sensor makers have to put into the latest camera? Is Canon supposed to be the leader or we are expecting too much?
You have no idea what you are talking about, with all due respect. Canon holds many patents on sensor technology that Sony and Fuji have no access to. It is Sony and Fuji who wish they have Canon's on chip per pixel noise reduction technology, not vice versa.
 
I used the phone sensors just to illustrate how fast the sensor technology has been grown for the last few years. On the other hand the phone sensors do use much more advanced process than the full frame dslr sensor. The iPhone sensor is equivalent to 300MP full frame sensor in pixel pitch.

I would say they are the high rev turbo charged 4 cylinder engines equivalent to the big old overhead valve V8 of dslr sensor. They are way more advanced even though they might not quite as powerful as the big one due to the size.
I'm basically with you on criticizing Canon. I may not switch to Nikon, but I definitely plan to add a D800 to my kit essentially for the modest IQ improvement the new 5D has over the last generation. .

However, you blew your credibility when you brought camera sensors into the discussion. You may not have intended to compare the Nokia and iPhone sensors to Canon's full-frame sensors, but you in effect did just that. And that comparison is absolutely absurd! Comparing Canon's sensors to an iPhone sensor is like comparing a Ferrari to a motorized golf cart. Over the last few years golf cart technology has improved remarkably fast--and clearly much faster than Ferraris have improved--, but you have to be kidding to compare the two.

Would you upgrade your Ferrari to the latest, greatest, and much improved, golf cart?
Nokia’s 41MP sensor with varies crop and down sampling modes produces great low > noise still and full HD video images. It even beats the 5DIII sensor in video over- > sampling amount. Not to be lost here is those are sensors come with phones which > cost just a small fraction of the high end dslr and can also make phone calls or surf > the web.
Then all you have to buy is the Nokia.... ;)
What is it you want with this topic ??

--
If you put it this way then how about we get something better than Nokia when we spend this much on a dslr?

Anyway you're trying to put my example to the wrong context. The point is how much phone camera sensor progressed in the last 3 1/2 years vs. how much Canon did.
 
Carl,

I'm wondering - based on past threads where you and many others (myself included) were involved in lively debates on crop vs. FF cameras, where you strongly maintained the position that the 5D2 sensor offers no tangible benefits over a 7D except for the highest of ISO shooting...why you suddenly care about a 5D3???

Considering your recent posting history has been mostly dedicated to this forum rather than the crop camera forums, it makes me wonder if you really are a closet FF fan just unwilling to admit it :)
--

On the 5D3 and D800: "The fact there is still so much to criticize with cameras this good only proves the human race can never be satisfied with anything." (Me)

My sites:
http://www.gipperich-photography.com
http://www.pbase.com/gipper51/portraits
 
You probably missed my thread that I'm seriously considering D800 but I'm still a little reluctant to do so. I'm not a "it has amazing IQ" type for full frame fan unless it provides me significantly more resolution that I can't get with my 7D.
Carl,

I'm wondering - based on past threads where you and many others (myself included) were involved in lively debates on crop vs. FF cameras, where you strongly maintained the position that the 5D2 sensor offers no tangible benefits over a 7D except for the highest of ISO shooting...why you suddenly care about a 5D3???

Considering your recent posting history has been mostly dedicated to this forum rather than the crop camera forums, it makes me wonder if you really are a closet FF fan just unwilling to admit it :)
--

On the 5D3 and D800: "The fact there is still so much to criticize with cameras this good only proves the human race can never be satisfied with anything." (Me)

My sites:
http://www.gipperich-photography.com
http://www.pbase.com/gipper51/portraits
 
Three and half years ago Canon’s 21MP sensor had absolutely no peer.
actually that would have to trace back to 5 years ago, 1Ds3 was the last time that canon sensor was ahead of competition.

since then in FF front Sony had caught up with A900 and A850, and nikon had a better action shooting orientated sensor. on APS-C front the 12mp sensor used in D300 and D90 was better than canon's 3 different offerings - 10mp, 12mp, 15mp. 7D briefly took back the lead by a small margin but lost again within a year to the 16mp.
 
Three and half years ago Canon’s 21MP sensor had absolutely no peer.
actually that would have to trace back to 5 years ago, 1Ds3 was the last time that canon sensor was ahead of competition.

since then in FF front Sony had caught up with A900 and A850, and nikon had a better action shooting orientated sensor. on APS-C front the 12mp sensor used in D300 and D90 was better than canon's 3 different offerings - 10mp, 12mp, 15mp. 7D briefly took back the lead by a small margin but lost again within a year to the 16mp.
Are you finished playing with your X-box ?
Canon beats Nikon
Nikon beats Canon
Nikon takes the lead again
Grow up.

By the way Sony A900 is nice , but stay below ISO 400 ;)

--
Enjoy Photography
http://www.wildlife-photos.net
 

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