5D MKII ISO 4000 missing?

I shoot my 5D MKII at ISO 4000 most of the time once the sun is down.

I'm started to notice in various comparisons with the 5D MK III that the ISO 4000 setting is not mentioned so I've gone back to 5D MK II reviews and it's missing there as well some of the time.

Is ISO 4000 going away?

I'm looking at loading the 2.1.2 firmware and I'm concerned it may drop a setting I use.

Can someone with 2.1.2 loaded confirm ISO 4000 is still there?
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Phil Agur

5DMKII - 7D Dual Body Bag - Go 'L' and don't look back!

Got 7D? See http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3167

ISO speed setting increments.
C.Fn I-2 = 0, ISO is set in 1/2 stops ==> 3200 - 4500 - 6400
C.Fn I-2 = 1, ISO is set in 1/3 stops ==> 3200 - 4000 - 5000 - 6400

=0 is the default and likely how the reviewers had it.

Phil said:

I shoot my 5D MKII at ISO 4000 most of the time once the sun is down.

I'm started to notice in various comparisons with the 5D MK III that the ISO 4000 setting is not mentioned so I've gone back to 5D MK II reviews and it's missing there as well some of the time.

Is ISO 4000 going away?

I'm looking at loading the 2.1.2 firmware and I'm concerned it may drop a setting I use.

Can someone with 2.1.2 loaded confirm ISO 4000 is still there?
--
Phil Agur

5DMKII - 7D Dual Body Bag - Go 'L' and don't look back!

Got 7D? See http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3167

Click to expand...

--
Unapologetic Canon Apologist

Lemming51 said:

=0 is the default and likely how the reviewers had it.

Phil said:

I shoot my 5D MKII at ISO 4000 most of the time once the sun is down.

I'm started to notice in various comparisons with the 5D MK III that the ISO 4000 setting is not mentioned so I've gone back to 5D MK II reviews and it's missing there as well some of the time.

Is ISO 4000 going away?

I'm looking at loading the 2.1.2 firmware and I'm concerned it may drop a setting I use.

Can someone with 2.1.2 loaded confirm ISO 4000 is still there?
--
Phil Agur

5DMKII - 7D Dual Body Bag - Go 'L' and don't look back!

Got 7D? See http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3167

Click to expand...

--
Unapologetic Canon Apologist

Click to expand...

--
Unapologetic Canon Apologist

Phil said:

I shoot my 5D MKII at ISO 4000 most of the time once the sun is down.

I'm started to notice in various comparisons with the 5D MK III that the ISO 4000 setting is not mentioned so I've gone back to 5D MK II reviews and it's missing there as well some of the time.

Is ISO 4000 going away?

Click to expand...

4000 is definitely there on the 5D III. As state above: C.Fn I-2 = 1

I'm curious. Why 4000? Does it work well in your experience?

ISO 4000 is a "push" ISO (underexposed 1/3 stop and pushed). Others on this forum say to either use native ISOs, or the "pull" ISOs (160, 320, 640, 1250, 2500, 5000, 10000...).

I'm shoot night action sports. Everyone before me shot this as flash so they had one shot at getting the shot. At 4000 ISO I can take a sequence and choose the best image. My subjects are doing about 30 MPH passing me 20-70 feet away.

Using the EF 70-200 F2.8 IS MKII in panning mode at 4000 ISO I can freeze even their feet with exposures 1/500th to 1/1600th of a sec. Typically I sell the best leg position but if the the whole sequnce is bad I'll take the shot on the wire.

I have a 7D which would be great in daylight at 8 FPS but it can't hang at 4000 ISO. I look forward to getting a 5DMKIII which is 6 FPS but the sports business can't support the expense so I may have to knock out a few weddings this year.

cm71td said:

Phil said:

I shoot my 5D MKII at ISO 4000 most of the time once the sun is down.

I'm started to notice in various comparisons with the 5D MK III that the ISO 4000 setting is not mentioned so I've gone back to 5D MK II reviews and it's missing there as well some of the time.

Is ISO 4000 going away?

Click to expand...

4000 is definitely there on the 5D III. As state above: C.Fn I-2 = 1

I'm curious. Why 4000? Does it work well in your experience?

ISO 4000 is a "push" ISO (underexposed 1/3 stop and pushed). Others on this forum say to either use native ISOs, or the "pull" ISOs (160, 320, 640, 1250, 2500, 5000, 10000...).

Click to expand...

--
Phil Agur

5DMKII - 7D Dual Body Bag - Go 'L' and don't look back!

Got 7D? See http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3167

I think you missed the point the previous poster was trying to make.

The video community surrounding the 5D mkII quickly learned that certain ISOs were better than others (cleaner).

The lowest noise was to be had in:

160, 320, 640, 1250

also good:

100, 200, 400, 800, (1600)

1250 gives lower noise than 800. It's counter intuitive, but still a fact.

The reason for this is that the only true ISOs are 100, 200, 400... and so on.

160 is actually exposed at 200 and then "pulled back" in camera. 250 would be exposed at 200 and "pushed". The pushed ISOs tend to give more noise:

125, 250, 500, 1000, 4000...

Your ISO of choice is a push ISO and the question was if this was a deliberate choice or not.

All this said, I think the push/pull effects are especially important up to and including 1600. After that I think I remember a more intuitive noise curve, where higher ISOs are noisier than lower, regardless of push/pull.

Yes that's right in terms of the effects.

As I understand it, though, the push-pull story is not quite right.

Rather what is happening is that the analog signal amplifiers has one stop settings - to get the intermediate ones an auxiliary amplifier (which adds noise) is used.

The main amplifier settings are in one stops from 160 (maybe unamplified is 100; but you can use 160 with no increase of noise or loss of DR)

The auxiliary amplifier operating on the 160 gives you 200 and 250, then the main amps next setting is 320.

The reason this makes no real difference after about ISO 1600 is that at that point the photo site noise swamps amplifier noise, making these differences irrelevant.

It's also at this point that the dynamic range of the Canon sensors is up there with the Sony, because Canon's photo sites are as good, it's just their analog amplifiers and read noise that are slightly noisier

There was/is some discussion if the noise and dynamic range curve observed stems from an auxiliary amplifier or is caused by pushing and pulling the exposures.

Canon actually did both things in different camera models:

http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/noise-p2.html#read_vs_iso

"Similar plots have been generated for the Canon 1Ds3 (data courtesy of Bart van der Wolf), and the Canon 5D (data courtesy of Peter Ruevski). Lower end Canon models do not perform analog amplification for the intermediate ISO's, rather the intermediate ISO's are implemented by a multiplication of the raw data in software after quantization, and there is only a single stage amplification in hardware; strictly speaking, they do not have intermediate ISO amplification."

Best regards