Fuji S2 Suppressed by Nikon

Charles Campbell · Jan 4, 2003

Thanks to all for your valuable insight at this forum. It greatly helped with the decision. I am very glad I bought the S2. Been giving it a workout since I received it yesterday. I was unable to handle the S2 at a dealer before buying and I had to mail order mine. I was told directly by the owner of one Fuji / Nikon dealer that Nikon was trying to suppress the Fuji S2. The reason he gave is that when a customer handles both and then sees a few test images, they walk out with Fuji 3 out of 4 times. He told me Nikon was really putting the screws to him.

I went to another Fuji / Nikon dealer and they stock a wide variety of Fuji cameras but not the S2. You can tell in their general reaction to my request to see the S2, that you are treading on tender toes. All they said was that they can order the S2 but they have the D100 in stock. Surprising since they used to stock the S1 for years.

I originally bought a D100 Nikon back in October but took it back for a refund. Images were terrible, under exposed with a magenta colorcast. I tried another one in the store but the dealer finally conceded there was something wrong, when an Olympus E-20 creamed the D100 for color and exposure accuracy. I have heard that Nikon has fixed this with a firmware update. IMHO, the D100 Nikon is history. I can see it shaping up that Nikon will either buy the Fuji Super CCD for use in their cameras or refuse to let Fuji use their camera bodies as a platform.

I still prefer my old Olympus E-10s to the Fuji in handling and intuitive controls. The Olympus has a more expensive feel to it and a much larger image in the viewfinder. However, the speed and surety of focusing, image playback speed and image quality, leave the E-10 far behind. I will always have appreciation for the Olympus E-XX series but it's time for Olympus to make some real performance upgrades. They have it won hands down in ergonomics. I just hope the Fuji is as reliable as my E-10s were.

People are always right when they say that current technology will soon be eclipsed. The day may come that we get a disposable twenty mega-pixel camera in a blister package at the checkout counter of Wal-Mart. However, this is the case with everything in digital technology. You can wait it out while the vendors leapfrog to Valhalla but eventually you’ll have to decide to jump in somewhere. For me the Fuji easily wins out against everything except the Canon EOS 1Ds for image quality and the Fuji even gives the Big Canon a run for the money. I doubt we will be seeing these two systems outclassed anytime soon. When a $2500 digicam gives the top tomato $8000 digicam a challenge, it’s time to sit up and take notice boys.

A Proud Fuji Convert
Charles

DF · Jan 4, 2003

Hi Charles,

Congrats on your new S2. Having come from the E-10, I can certainly agree with all your praise of that camera. (I still have mine as a back-up.) I think you'll quickly become accustomed, though, to the S2's ergonomics.....it's no slouch either in that regard.

Again, congratulations and welcome.

Best wishes,

David

Dioni · Jan 4, 2003

Hey Charles,

I hope you get happy with your S2, it's a really nice camera. About Nikon trying to suppres it, I do not know, but if I were a Nikon engineer I'd be pretty worried seeing the results from both the D100 and the S2. When I decided to get a D-SLR these were the only two on my list. After seeing both reviews here, the choice was done (I hated the D100 picture of the japanese sword with noise every other pixel).

Best,
Dioni
You don't take a photograph, you make it (Ansel Adams)

Teski · Jan 4, 2003

Welcome! I posted in your thread over in the Nikon SLR forum. I'm glad you're excited about the S2. I had both the D100 and S2 back in August and returned the D100.

That's interesting info you posted about Nikon vs. Fuji.

Take care, and looking forward to seeing some of your stuff.

Teski

Charles Campbell said:
Thanks to all for your valuable insight at this forum. It greatly
helped with the decision. I am very glad I bought the S2. Been
giving it a workout since I received it yesterday. I was unable to
handle the S2 at a dealer before buying and I had to mail order
mine. I was told directly by the owner of one Fuji / Nikon dealer
that Nikon was trying to suppress the Fuji S2. The reason he gave
is that when a customer handles both and then sees a few test
images, they walk out with Fuji 3 out of 4 times. He told me Nikon
was really putting the screws to him.

I went to another Fuji / Nikon dealer and they stock a wide variety
of Fuji cameras but not the S2. You can tell in their general
reaction to my request to see the S2, that you are treading on
tender toes. All they said was that they can order the S2 but they
have the D100 in stock. Surprising since they used to stock the S1
for years.

I originally bought a D100 Nikon back in October but took it back
for a refund. Images were terrible, under exposed with a magenta
colorcast. I tried another one in the store but the dealer finally
conceded there was something wrong, when an Olympus E-20 creamed
the D100 for color and exposure accuracy. I have heard that Nikon
has fixed this with a firmware update. IMHO, the D100 Nikon is
history. I can see it shaping up that Nikon will either buy the
Fuji Super CCD for use in their cameras or refuse to let Fuji use
their camera bodies as a platform.

I still prefer my old Olympus E-10s to the Fuji in handling and
intuitive controls. The Olympus has a more expensive feel to it and
a much larger image in the viewfinder. However, the speed and
surety of focusing, image playback speed and image quality, leave
the E-10 far behind. I will always have appreciation for the
Olympus E-XX series but it's time for Olympus to make some real
performance upgrades. They have it won hands down in ergonomics. I
just hope the Fuji is as reliable as my E-10s were.

People are always right when they say that current technology will
soon be eclipsed. The day may come that we get a disposable twenty
mega-pixel camera in a blister package at the checkout counter of
Wal-Mart. However, this is the case with everything in digital
technology. You can wait it out while the vendors leapfrog to
Valhalla but eventually you’ll have to decide to jump in somewhere.
For me the Fuji easily wins out against everything except the Canon
EOS 1Ds for image quality and the Fuji even gives the Big Canon a
run for the money. I doubt we will be seeing these two systems
outclassed anytime soon. When a $2500 digicam gives the top tomato
$8000 digicam a challenge, it’s time to sit up and take notice boys.

A Proud Fuji Convert
Charles

Mahesh · Jan 4, 2003

Just wanted to reiterate everyone else's sentiments and welcome you to this forum. Happy hunting with the S2!

--
RAW data is but a recipe; photoshop the spices...while the printout is the
final meal...and each meal tastes a little different depending on the cook.

--Mahesh Thapa

Rinus Borgsteede · Jan 4, 2003

I believe that as well about Nikon. Of course, Nikon Canada does not like Nikon USA and vice versa! The individual Nikon distributers do not like each other and neither do they agree with Corporate Nikon. It seems that locally Nikon USA as well as Nikon Canada would never admit that kind of dealer treatment but selling an S2 would cost them their "stocking dealer" reputation and thus they would loose certain priviledges. We also have a local dealer that suffers from the same bias. They know nothing about the S2. Actually they do know but they prefer to sell the inferior D100. Funny, they also sell regular Fuji cameras but try to get the illusive S2
Rinus of Calgary

Derrel87035 · Jan 4, 2003

Charles Campbell said:
Thanks to all for your valuable insight at this forum. It greatly
helped with the decision. I am very glad I bought the S2. Been
giving it a workout since I received it yesterday.

Welcome to Fuji SLR Talk. This is a great forum,with a wide variety of members,of all skill levels,from total newbie to hobbyists to working professionals,to true amateur photographers who shoot for love,not for money. I think the tenor of this Forum has been one of people working together to help others learn,no matter what the subject. Not fraught with flame wars and contentious nit-picking....as in some other forums here.

As you work your way through the morass that is Nikon optics nowadays,I'm sure you can learn from what others have bought,how it works for them,see samples,ask questions,get "the lowdown" on the whole Fuji SLR experience.

"Welcome aboard. May I see your ticket?"

--
Happy Shooting!
Derrel

Ken Mai · Jan 4, 2003

Charles Campbell said:
I tried another one in the store but the dealer finally
conceded there was something wrong, when an Olympus E-20 creamed
the D100 for color and exposure accuracy. I have heard that Nikon
has fixed this with a firmware update.

Judging by the number and size of the custom tone curve and "underexposure" threads on the Nikon SLR forum, Nikon hasn't solved the problem. Also, the firmware 2.0 update info does not list anything about exposure correction (although Nikon's has done "silent" upgrades before).

bm bradley · Jan 5, 2003

Charles,

I’ve wondered about this one myself, especially when the repair factory in NJ couldn’t get their hands on and S2 bodies to replace a problem I was having with one of my S2’s. and I thought it a bit strange that the retailer I deal with in LA couldn’t get S2's while he had D100’s on the shelves. Very strange indeed . . .
--
bm bradley

X-Sync · Jan 5, 2003

Hello Charles,

Welcome, I am sure you have already become aware that this is a very friendly forum. The depth of shared knowledge here never ceases to amaze me. Good luck with the new camera.

Happy Posting

Simon

swarrine · Jan 5, 2003

You may be right about Nikon/Fuji.

B&H, Tallyn, Ritz all are out of the S2. I know B&H has been out for 2 months.

I think this goes beyond a simple supply/demand problem. I have called Fuji twice and either they don't know or are not telling.

Whatever the problem, I hope it is resolved soon. I would like to buy this cam from a reputable dealer.

excal · Jan 5, 2003

I've heard this too, from local sources. But... in this world, partnerships is critical to success, so I think this odd. Here's some of my thoughts...

1) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore, dealers are keen to push D100's to get rid of them from their stock pile.

2) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore, stocks are low and Fuji are having a hard time keeping up.

3) The D100, Fuji S2 and now the Kodak 14n, are all based on the F80 (I think I'm right in saying that). So there's probably a common component (or several) which is now so much in demand, Nikon just can't keep up - the production line can only make so many per day and all of a sudden, 3 different cameras want them (well, 4 if you count the F80). And I'm better there are others too that use some common bits - like the D1X, F100 etc. So perhaps Nikon just can't keep up?

Excal

Mark127996 · Jan 5, 2003

Welcome Charles!

I hope you have as much fun with your S2 as I am having. It's a wonderful camera.

I don't know about the Nikon situation but hope they maintain a relationship so we can continue to get these great cameras.

I would like to see an F5 Fuji S3 16MP camera from Fuji next!

One can dream!

Have Fun!
Mark

Charles Campbell said:
Thanks to all for your valuable insight at this forum. It greatly
helped with the decision. I am very glad I bought the S2. Been
giving it a workout since I received it yesterday. I was unable to
handle the S2 at a dealer before buying and I had to mail order
mine. I was told directly by the owner of one Fuji / Nikon dealer
that Nikon was trying to suppress the Fuji S2. The reason he gave
is that when a customer handles both and then sees a few test
images, they walk out with Fuji 3 out of 4 times. He told me Nikon
was really putting the screws to him.

I went to another Fuji / Nikon dealer and they stock a wide variety
of Fuji cameras but not the S2. You can tell in their general
reaction to my request to see the S2, that you are treading on
tender toes. All they said was that they can order the S2 but they
have the D100 in stock. Surprising since they used to stock the S1
for years.

I originally bought a D100 Nikon back in October but took it back
for a refund. Images were terrible, under exposed with a magenta
colorcast. I tried another one in the store but the dealer finally
conceded there was something wrong, when an Olympus E-20 creamed
the D100 for color and exposure accuracy. I have heard that Nikon
has fixed this with a firmware update. IMHO, the D100 Nikon is
history. I can see it shaping up that Nikon will either buy the
Fuji Super CCD for use in their cameras or refuse to let Fuji use
their camera bodies as a platform.

I still prefer my old Olympus E-10s to the Fuji in handling and
intuitive controls. The Olympus has a more expensive feel to it and
a much larger image in the viewfinder. However, the speed and
surety of focusing, image playback speed and image quality, leave
the E-10 far behind. I will always have appreciation for the
Olympus E-XX series but it's time for Olympus to make some real
performance upgrades. They have it won hands down in ergonomics. I
just hope the Fuji is as reliable as my E-10s were.

People are always right when they say that current technology will
soon be eclipsed. The day may come that we get a disposable twenty
mega-pixel camera in a blister package at the checkout counter of
Wal-Mart. However, this is the case with everything in digital
technology. You can wait it out while the vendors leapfrog to
Valhalla but eventually you’ll have to decide to jump in somewhere.
For me the Fuji easily wins out against everything except the Canon
EOS 1Ds for image quality and the Fuji even gives the Big Canon a
run for the money. I doubt we will be seeing these two systems
outclassed anytime soon. When a $2500 digicam gives the top tomato
$8000 digicam a challenge, it’s time to sit up and take notice boys.

A Proud Fuji Convert
Charles

--
Thanks!
Mark

Anthony32599 · Jan 5, 2003

I think Fuji has once again been surprised at how popular their camera is. We've seen this before with Fuji--for example they only made a limited number of Fuji 6900 cameras, and they sold out immediately after the stellar reviews came in. Worse yet, no more 6900's were being produced because Fuji completely underestimated the demand.

I think the problem is that very few are being made in comparison to the D100 and D60 which are probably being made in greater quantities. Add the positive S2 reviews into the mix and you have the reason for the unavailability of the S2. Well, that's good for the used market, I guess.

Anthony

swarrine said:
You may be right about Nikon/Fuji.

B&H, Tallyn, Ritz all are out of the S2. I know B&H has been out
for 2 months.

I think this goes beyond a simple supply/demand problem. I have
called Fuji twice and either they don't know or are not telling.

Whatever the problem, I hope it is resolved soon. I would like to
buy this cam from a reputable dealer.

Anthony32599 · Jan 5, 2003

Are you sure that the S2 is selling better? In terms of total numbers alone, I suspect the D100 sells much better because Nikon has better distribution, an established dealer network, produces more cameras, and has dealers push those cameras onto customers.

If you're talking percentage sold against number produced, then the S2 does sell much better. I think fewer S2's are made to begin with, and the positive reviews have increased demand until it has outstripped supply.

Anthony

excal said:
I've heard this too, from local sources. But... in this world,
partnerships is critical to success, so I think this odd. Here's
some of my thoughts...

1) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore,
dealers are keen to push D100's to get rid of them from their stock
pile.

2) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore,
stocks are low and Fuji are having a hard time keeping up.

3) The D100, Fuji S2 and now the Kodak 14n, are all based on the
F80 (I think I'm right in saying that). So there's probably a
common component (or several) which is now so much in demand, Nikon
just can't keep up - the production line can only make so many per
day and all of a sudden, 3 different cameras want them (well, 4 if
you count the F80). And I'm better there are others too that use
some common bits - like the D1X, F100 etc. So perhaps Nikon just
can't keep up?

Excal

Teski · Jan 5, 2003

I terms of total numbers, the D100 is definitely outselling the S2. A few of the stores I've talked to said that they sell 10 or more D100s for every S2, and then they qualify that with the fact that they've had 10:1 ratio of D100s in-stock vs. the S2. They all say they could easily sell that many S2s if they had them.

Teski

Anthony said:
If you're talking percentage sold against number produced, then the
S2 does sell much better. I think fewer S2's are made to begin
with, and the positive reviews have increased demand until it has
outstripped supply.

Anthony

excal said:

I've heard this too, from local sources. But... in this world,
partnerships is critical to success, so I think this odd. Here's
some of my thoughts...

1) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore,
dealers are keen to push D100's to get rid of them from their stock
pile.

2) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore,
stocks are low and Fuji are having a hard time keeping up.

3) The D100, Fuji S2 and now the Kodak 14n, are all based on the
F80 (I think I'm right in saying that). So there's probably a
common component (or several) which is now so much in demand, Nikon
just can't keep up - the production line can only make so many per
day and all of a sudden, 3 different cameras want them (well, 4 if
you count the F80). And I'm better there are others too that use
some common bits - like the D1X, F100 etc. So perhaps Nikon just
can't keep up?

Excal

Click to expand...

Charles Campbell · Jan 5, 2003

All of what you have said is insightful.

Can anyone recommend a lens for wedding and Portrait work? I have a 24-85 Nikon ED lens that I bought with the camera.

Thanks Again
Charles

excal said:
I've heard this too, from local sources. But... in this world,
partnerships is critical to success, so I think this odd. Here's
some of my thoughts...

1) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore,
dealers are keen to push D100's to get rid of them from their stock
pile.

2) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore,
stocks are low and Fuji are having a hard time keeping up.

3) The D100, Fuji S2 and now the Kodak 14n, are all based on the
F80 (I think I'm right in saying that). So there's probably a
common component (or several) which is now so much in demand, Nikon
just can't keep up - the production line can only make so many per
day and all of a sudden, 3 different cameras want them (well, 4 if
you count the F80). And I'm better there are others too that use
some common bits - like the D1X, F100 etc. So perhaps Nikon just
can't keep up?

Excal

Teski · Jan 5, 2003

If you have the $$$, I would say the Nikon 17-35 AFS, and the Nikon 28-70 AFS. Both are 2.8 all the way through their ranges, and are two of the sharpest zooms out there. Many say they rival prime lenses.

Teski

Charles Campbell said:
Can anyone recommend a lens for wedding and Portrait work? I have
a 24-85 Nikon ED lens that I bought with the camera.

Thanks Again
Charles

excal said:

I've heard this too, from local sources. But... in this world,
partnerships is critical to success, so I think this odd. Here's
some of my thoughts...

1) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore,
dealers are keen to push D100's to get rid of them from their stock
pile.

2) The Fuji S2 is selling much better than the D100 - therefore,
stocks are low and Fuji are having a hard time keeping up.

3) The D100, Fuji S2 and now the Kodak 14n, are all based on the
F80 (I think I'm right in saying that). So there's probably a
common component (or several) which is now so much in demand, Nikon
just can't keep up - the production line can only make so many per
day and all of a sudden, 3 different cameras want them (well, 4 if
you count the F80). And I'm better there are others too that use
some common bits - like the D1X, F100 etc. So perhaps Nikon just
can't keep up?

Excal

Click to expand...

Ron H · Jan 5, 2003

You could give a try to Camera Canada where I bought my camera from. Excellent people to deal with. Believe it or not they have actually dropped the price, and are now selling it for $3000 CDN which is just over $1900 US. They also say that they have it in stock on their site. Maybe demand is different in Canada. The link to their page is http://www.cameracanada.com/eNet-cart/product.asp?pid=s2&type=1 . This is also a very reputable dealer to deal with.

swarrine said:
You may be right about Nikon/Fuji.

B&H, Tallyn, Ritz all are out of the S2. I know B&H has been out
for 2 months.

I think this goes beyond a simple supply/demand problem. I have
called Fuji twice and either they don't know or are not telling.

Whatever the problem, I hope it is resolved soon. I would like to
buy this cam from a reputable dealer.

DF · Jan 5, 2003

Hi Charles,

Is that the 24-85 AF-S G? If so, it's not at all a bad lens in itself. It would definitely be more than adequate for most weddings and portraiture, so long as you can control the lighting to be able to shoot at f/5.6 or smaller.

For weddings, if you don't already have an excellent speedlight, that should be your next purchase. The Nikon SB-80DX is a top choice, and works wonderfully with the S2 and that lens.

For portraits, if you don't already own studio strobes, check out Alien Bees. You'll be well advised to have a lighting set-up that allows you to shoot at f/8.

As Teski said, it's all a matter of budget, and certainly there are better lenses (especially primes) available. But if $$$s are an issue, I would strongly advise you to invest in lighting first, because that 24-85 will do a really good job. I've been surprised at what a good lens it is.

Best wishes,

David

Charles Campbell said:
All of what you have said is insightful.

Can anyone recommend a lens for wedding and Portrait work? I have
a 24-85 Nikon ED lens that I bought with the camera.

Thanks Again
Charles

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