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Sensor Experts- could it be the old sensor?

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Gene Hack

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As a pro I can only judge colors and character, so this question is for the Joe Wisniewski et al.

Could it be, that the new 5DIII sports the old sensor, but better embedded, with a higher "amplificated" base ISO?

I´m asking this since I have the feeling that the base sensitivity seems min. 200ISO, and the 400-800 ASA i saw had a tad better highlights.The base iso seem very flat and show a bit of greyish noise.

Experts?
 
No the sensor is a completely new design with nearly twice the light gathering capability.
 
Gene Hack said:
As a pro I can only judge colors and character, so this question is for the Joe Wisniewski et al.

Could it be, that the new 5DIII sports the old sensor, but better embedded, with a higher "amplificated" base ISO?
Click to expand...
Oh and a few more pixels squeezed in?!

Doh!
Gene Hack said:
I´m asking this since I have the feeling that the base sensitivity seems min. 200ISO, and the 400-800 ASA i saw had a tad better highlights.The base iso seem very flat and show a bit of greyish noise.

Experts?
Click to expand...
--
Phil

I wondered why the ball kept getting bigger, then it hit me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/
 
Gene Hack said:
As a pro I can only judge colors and character, so this question is for the Joe Wisniewski et al.

Could it be, that the new 5DIII sports the old sensor, but better embedded, with a higher "amplificated" base ISO?

I´m asking this since I have the feeling that the base sensitivity seems min. 200ISO, and the 400-800 ASA i saw had a tad better highlights.The base iso seem very flat and show a bit of greyish noise.

Experts?
Click to expand...
It is very similar to the old sensor, a classic design, but with somewhat cleaner electronics. It is a different design than the Sony in the D800 with different behaviors, but somewhat similar to the D3/s/D4 sensor.

The design used in the 5D/II/III is prone to be somewhat noisy at base ISO, which is still 100ISO in the 5DIII. Three stops up at 800 ISO, there is only a half stop less dynamic range. In other words, the 800ISO files are almost as deep as the 100ISO files (though no better than competing cameras at that setting).

I don't know about flat or grayish noise per se. Without seeing it, it's hard to tell.
 
It's a new iteration of a classic design. It improves over its predecessor, but suffers from some of the same limitations as the D3/s/D4/5DI/II/1DsII/III in terms of noise at base ISO.

It's an interesting question -- can either Nikon or Canon create a really new sensor design that competes with the squeaky clean Exmor? Neither has for some time.
 
Luke Kaven said:
It's a new iteration of a classic design.
Click to expand...
Well said. It's basically the 5DII sensor but with tweaks.

Canon has been using the same basic design since the original 5D, which in turn was based on the 1DII sensor. This design has surely evolved over the years but we have yet to see a true next-gen sensor from Canon.
 
Luke Kaven said:
It's a new iteration of a classic design. It improves over its predecessor, but suffers from some of the same limitations as the D3/s/D4/5DI/II/1DsII/III in terms of noise at base ISO.

It's an interesting question -- can either Nikon or Canon create a really new sensor design that competes with the squeaky clean Exmor? Neither has for some time.
Click to expand...
Thank You guys.I furthermore witnessed the very lifeless colors, straight out of RAW.Even when cranking up dynamic/saturation, they just "pop" and are not rich and subtle like with the "old" 1Ds and DsII.

Those mushy colors began with my DsIII and "matured" with the 5DII.Now I see the same old with the 5DIII.
Is this solvable?
 
Gene Hack said:
Luke Kaven said:
It's a new iteration of a classic design. It improves over its predecessor, but suffers from some of the same limitations as the D3/s/D4/5DI/II/1DsII/III in terms of noise at base ISO.

It's an interesting question -- can either Nikon or Canon create a really new sensor design that competes with the squeaky clean Exmor? Neither has for some time.
Click to expand...
Thank You guys.I furthermore witnessed the very lifeless colors, straight out of RAW.Even when cranking up dynamic/saturation, they just "pop" and are not rich and subtle like with the "old" 1Ds and DsII.

Those mushy colors began with my DsIII and "matured" with the 5DII.Now I see the same old with the 5DIII.
Is this solvable?
Click to expand...
If what you are after is pure still quality, without video, then I'd suggest -- very seriously -- going out and getting a used D3x from the barely used ones that are now showing up at fire-sale prices at dealers.

It has an Exmor sensor with extremely low noise at base ISO, which gives it deep, rich blacks. The colors on this camera are the best I have seen in any full-frame camera to date .
 
Luke Kaven said:
Gene Hack said:
Luke Kaven said:
It's a new iteration of a classic design. It improves over its predecessor, but suffers from some of the same limitations as the D3/s/D4/5DI/II/1DsII/III in terms of noise at base ISO.

It's an interesting question -- can either Nikon or Canon create a really new sensor design that competes with the squeaky clean Exmor? Neither has for some time.
Click to expand...
Thank You guys.I furthermore witnessed the very lifeless colors, straight out of RAW.Even when cranking up dynamic/saturation, they just "pop" and are not rich and subtle like with the "old" 1Ds and DsII.

Those mushy colors began with my DsIII and "matured" with the 5DII.Now I see the same old with the 5DIII.
Is this solvable?
Click to expand...
If what you are after is pure still quality, without video, then I'd suggest -- very seriously -- going out and getting a used D3x from the barely used ones that are now showing up at fire-sale prices at dealers.

It has an Exmor sensor with extremely low noise at base ISO, which gives it deep, rich blacks. The colors on this camera are the best I have seen in any full-frame camera to date .
Click to expand...
What are the chances that the D800 sensor will be better than the D3x sensor in every aspect (including colors) ?
 
Zlik said:
Luke Kaven said:
Gene Hack said:
Luke Kaven said:
It's a new iteration of a classic design. It improves over its predecessor, but suffers from some of the same limitations as the D3/s/D4/5DI/II/1DsII/III in terms of noise at base ISO.

It's an interesting question -- can either Nikon or Canon create a really new sensor design that competes with the squeaky clean Exmor? Neither has for some time.
Click to expand...
Thank You guys.I furthermore witnessed the very lifeless colors, straight out of RAW.Even when cranking up dynamic/saturation, they just "pop" and are not rich and subtle like with the "old" 1Ds and DsII.

Those mushy colors began with my DsIII and "matured" with the 5DII.Now I see the same old with the 5DIII.
Is this solvable?
Click to expand...
If what you are after is pure still quality, without video, then I'd suggest -- very seriously -- going out and getting a used D3x from the barely used ones that are now showing up at fire-sale prices at dealers.

It has an Exmor sensor with extremely low noise at base ISO, which gives it deep, rich blacks. The colors on this camera are the best I have seen in any full-frame camera to date .
Click to expand...
What are the chances that the D800 sensor will be better than the D3x sensor in every aspect (including colors) ?
Click to expand...
Measurements already put the D800 as more than one generation improved over the D3x in terms of noise and dynamic range. The quality of the color goes hand-in-hand wish such things, though they aren't the only considerations. So far, the D800 looks very much like its predecessor.

BTW, the D3x is a stunningly beautiful camera that is showing up now at fire sale prices. For anyone who wants a world class still camera and doesn't care about video or low light beyond ISO6400, this is a good opportunity. At base ISO, the D3x still blows away almost everything.
 
...and that's why color fidelity, especially with reds, suffers so. The color quality compromise is one that I really don't care for. I'd rather have a bit less sensitivity and greater color separation.
gigamel said:
To make their old tech sensor competitive against Nikon-Sony, Canon makes the sensor color blind so more light enters the photo sites.

If you looked at the filter on top of the "red" pixels it is actually orange (red-green)

The downside is that red needs huge amplification also amplifiying noise.

It is all very well explanied here:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Insights/Canon-500D-T1i-vs.-Nikon-D5000/Color-blindness-sensor-quality
Click to expand...
--
- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.garlandcary.com
 
It's the characterization posted here that is wrong.
--

 
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