The Oly OM-D Test Samples:

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I don't know about you but when I used the 'Stand Alone Comparison Test' using the Oly OM-D and the NEX-7 with any other two cameras at OSA 200, for the sharpest and most clear, the NEX-7 comes in first, the Oly OM-D comes in second, the Fuji X100 comes in third and the softest and less detailed is the Leica M9 as well as all the rest of the cameras. This is just from my own eyesight. This leads me to believe that the sharpest and most detailed camera isn't always the most expensive. It also gives me much encouragement to know that if Sony doesn't come through on my pre-order, I shall not be disappointed with my second choice with the Oly OM-D which I also have pre-ordered.
Just try the tests for yourself to see what I mean.
 
Completely different sensors for each camera!
Though I do see your point, you aren't comparing apples to apples here.

That said, the NEX-7 is awesome (and well worth waiting for), but the OM-D, if you have investment in m4/3 glass, does indeed look like a nice camera, picture quality wise. I've heard from early reviews that the vertical battery grip is almost a necessity if you want to be able to hold onto the thing right.
 
Well, it's rather pointless to compare the SAME sensors on different cameras especially when shooting RAWs, no? There's only one reason to compare sample shots, and that is to see which camera has the better IQ.

And results are as expected I guess.
Completely different sensors for each camera!
Though I do see your point, you aren't comparing apples to apples here.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/lng0004/
 
I will most probably order this baby, when it comes out. I passed on the NEX7 as I didn't found it worth that much money compared to my 5N. I am primarily a legacy/quality glass shooter and thatswhy I miss a stabilization option with the NEX very much.

As far as the new Oly goes, I would be using mostly one lens on it. And the camera would be for normal-indoor lighting and low light meaning dusk and evening levels ideally combined with the best lens made for the m4/3 system, the Nokton 25/0.95.

My EP-1 works wonders with that lens compared to anything I was able to put on the NEX5N - If you intend NOT TO USE FLASH. It could run circles around the 5N with just about any lens attached.

So there is and as far as I know will be NO better low-light camera gear combo option as the new Oly and the 25/0.95.

For daylight, mostly outdoors shooting, I will continue to use the 5N and good longer manual lenses combos. However, at serious shootings, for indoor and lowlight, I will continue to carry the 25/0.95 with my current Olympus stabilized body.

I don't troll. I love both systems for what they are good at. The NEX is great for strong light because of it's DR. The Oly with the supersharp and superfast native normal FOV lens is unbeatable when lower DR scenes occur in the evening and night thanks to it's great IBIS. Plus, it gives you the best colors from such scenes. Which is very hard to get from the NEX.

Enjoy the spring!
 
I will most probably order this baby, when it comes out. I passed on the NEX7 as I didn't found it worth that much money compared to my 5N. I am primarily a legacy/quality glass shooter and that's why I miss a stabilization option with the NEX very much.
That is a very valid complaint.
As far as the new Oly goes, I would be using mostly one lens on it.
So, not for legacy/quality glass - you will keep that on the Nex then?
And the camera would be for normal-indoor lighting and low light meaning dusk and evening levels ideally combined with the best lens made for the m4/3 system, the Nokton 25/0.95.

My EP-1 works wonders with that lens compared to anything I was able to put on the NEX5N - If you intend NOT TO USE FLASH. It could run circles around the 5N with just about any lens attached. So there is and as far as I know will be NO better low-light camera gear combo option as the new Oly and the 25/0.95.
But, converted, isn't this approximately the same as the Nex with the CV 35/1.4?
For daylight, mostly outdoors shooting, I will continue to use the 5N and good longer manual lenses combos. However, at serious shootings, for indoor and lowlight, I will continue to carry the 25/0.95 with my current Olympus stabilized body.

I don't troll. I love both systems for what they are good at. The NEX is great for strong light because of it's DR. The Oly with the supersharp and superfast native normal FOV lens is unbeatable when lower DR scenes occur in the evening and night thanks to it's great IBIS.
When shooting with CV 35/1.4, the shutter speeds seldom go below 1/50th - or it has to be extremely dark. ISO goes up, but reasonably.

I have more experience (by now) with the E24Z/1.8, which has NO OSS, and I have no trouble getting sharp hand held shots in the darkest of night.

IBIS has a role, but for longer focal length (75mm equiv and up). The Nex lenses (at 50 and above) do have OSS - just legacy lenses do not.
Plus, it gives you the best colors from such scenes. Which is very hard to get from the NEX.
I like the Nex colors?
Enjoy the spring!
Will do.

FWiW, going below f/2 on normal lenses on the Nex causes the DOF to be extremely shallow and causes focusing issues. For hand held applications, this can be tricky. Most successful (for fast shots) are the E24Z and E50 - at f/1.8.

Going to f/1.4 eq. (f/0.95 on the Oly) only exagerates this. Perhaps, because the M43 has a longer DOF -at the same distance from subject- the Oly is more forgiving than the Nex (larger DOF), but it is for this very same reason that I prefer Nex pictures (or even FF if possible).

I do agree that for sharper pictures, in bright light, the smaller sensor has a big plus: larger DOF.

I disagree that for low light pictures, the smaller sensor is superior, even with a fast lens.
If you intend NOT TO USE FLASH. It (EP-1) could run circles around the 5N with just about any lens attached
This is a very unqualified statement, and I don't even understand how to interpret this statement. Are you just trolling or do you care to show us some quantified data points to anchor such statement?

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Cheers,
Henry
 
for the sharpest and most clear, the NEX-7 comes in first, the Oly OM-D comes in second, the Fuji X100 comes in third and the softest and less detailed is the Leica M9 as well as all the rest of the cameras.
In my opinion, the only way to fairly test the sharpness of camera sensors would be to shoot deep scenes at infinity focus with the same lens in every test. Find a place with enough room to move around for you to frame the shot identically no matter the crop factor. It would take the enormous variables of DoF and lens quality out of the equation. I've seen samples with the M9 that markedly beat the NEX-7 for detail at the pixel level (though if you blew them up to 6000x4000 the 7 would win).
 
My EP-1 works wonders with that lens compared to anything I was able to put on the NEX5N - If you intend NOT TO USE FLASH. It could run circles around the 5N with just about any lens attached. So there is and as far as I know will be NO better low-light camera gear combo option as the new Oly and the 25/0.95.
But, converted, isn't this approximately the same as the Nex with the CV 35/1.4?
Absolutely not.

Lenses do not magically change apertures when placed on different cameras. F/.95 is ALWAYS F/.95. A FF F/2 lens is F/2 on APS and F/2 on M43. The images are cropped differently but that is it. My bet is you are thinking of DoF.

As for IBIS, I very often shoot at 1/30th with my 35mm (52.5mm EFL) lens. I have an A65 and without IS I would really need to go up to close to 1/100th in order to for a 24MP image to remain fairly sharp. Sure sometimes you can get sharp images at lower shutter speeds, but the hit rate drops dramatically. It is not worth taking the perfect shot and then finding it is blurry.

I am excited about the 5 axis IBIS because every test so far says it as good as advertised, for video it is like using a steadycam - even with every legacy lens ever made, and seems better than in lens IS that can only stabilize 3.
 
I used the Nokton 35mm 1.2 with the NEX5N. I am selling the 35/1.2 and am moving to shooting lowlight with the EP-1 & 25/0.95 COMBO ONLY.

Unstabilized ISO1600 at the border of hand-holdability or at least 1/1.5xFL exposed ISO3200 from the NEX5N doesn't touch stabilized ISO200-400 on the two years old Oly. Sorry, but thanks for trying.

The newer sensor plus the better IBIS in the coming Olympus camera will wipe the floor with the lowlight abilities of the NEX line with any existing lens attached. Theoretically, only the 5N with the SEL 50/1.8 will be able to challenge it, but probably not, because F/0.95 paired with only the half length FL of the Voigtlander compared to the 50mm and the 1+2/3EV light lost because of the smaller 1.8 aperture gives you in real life light loss resulting in almost two times higher ISO for the NEX in lowlight.

And no. No NEX camera has that great output compared to the superior otput that I saw in the above comparison's samples. I tried and use the IBIS in the Oly and also the NEX line. I do not theoretize about something I do not have.

I am providing my experience, which I have no duty to defend. You can take it or leave it. I have no lust to waste time with some graphical explanation for the non-believing trollnamer. I shoot wonderful photos, and you spend time expanding your knowledge, not beliefs. NEX theoretician:>
 
Thank you dude. Am really glad, that there are still qualified and rational people around.
 
My EP-1 works wonders with that lens compared to anything I was able to put on the NEX5N - If you intend NOT TO USE FLASH. It could run circles around the 5N with just about any lens attached. So there is and as far as I know will be NO better low-light camera gear combo option as the new Oly and the 25/0.95.
But, converted, isn't this approximately the same as the Nex with the CV 35/1.4?
Absolutely not.

Lenses do not magically change apertures when placed on different cameras. F/.95 is ALWAYS F/.95. A FF F/2 lens is F/2 on APS and F/2 on M43. The images are cropped differently but that is it. My bet is you are thinking of DoF.
That's the point though. The illuminated surface changes, thus the light gathering capabilities too. For your exposure parameters, that makes no difference, for noise at a given output size (one of the prime issues in low light) it does.

Altough not as much as suggested above (about half a stop difference in photon gathering capabilities instead).
 
I tried my best to take several photos last night of the Nex-7 with my G3 and 20mm 1.7...ALL blurry...took the EP3 with 12mm 2.0 voila all sharp shots...no flash thats what he is talking about above...thats the main reason I bought the first Oly was for its IBIS and to add Prime Lens...Oly jpegs and colors are fantastic as well...





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FlickR Photostream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/
 
I don't know about you but when I used the 'Stand Alone Comparison Test' using the Oly OM-D and the NEX-7 with any other two cameras at OSA 200, for the sharpest and most clear, the NEX-7 comes in first, the Oly OM-D comes in second, the Fuji X100 comes in third and the softest and less detailed is the Leica M9 as well as all the rest of the cameras.
I'd say, check out this comparison.

Fotopolis (a Polish photography site) just reviewed the E-M5. They had a lot of positive things to say about it, but when I look at the noise/resolution tests and samples... well, see for yourself:

E-M5:
http://www.fotopolis.pl/index.php?n=14593&p=6

NEX-7:
http://www.fotopolis.pl/index.php?n=14521&p=8

NEX-5N (yes, even against the cheap 5N):
http://www.fotopolis.pl/index.php?n=13762&p=5

(I think there is something obviously wrong with the 5N ISO100 & 200 noise shots, esp. relative to ISO400. You can decide for yourself.)

I'm looking at "Print details" for all three. You can start to tell pretty definitively around ISO1600 & 3200. I'm looking at the parallel-patterned background on the left side of the image (under "DZIESIEC ZLO"), and at the eagle's eye.

I think all of you armchair quarterbacks should wait until all the reviews come in before declaring your overwhelming victory.
 
Ok, you have a point. And I even agree with you. IBIS on legacy tele(!) lenses and for video mode is a big short-coming on the Nex, for which the Oly get kudo points. But as to your claim that the Nex is useless in low light, I am not so sure.

Also, your point is a technical one, imo. Not mine - I am going by experience of the Nex-5, Nex-5N and now Nex-7.

I am very curious to see the comparisons between Nex and the Oly, where the ISO200-400 shots with IBIS beat the Nex with ISO3200. I believe you, but ISO3200 and 1/20th of a sec is extremely low light. See e.g. last pic below.

Just how dark do you want to shoot exactly?

Let me make my point: the Nex is a great low light shooter and I speak from experience, as the rest of this post will try to illustrate. Technically your point may be very valid, and I am very willing to accept it. Practically, I see no need to switch cameras for low light ability - I am getting plenty of satisfactory shots with the Nex.

I don't really care 'technically' about which is better - you can have it your way. I am merely trying to point out that numbers are just numbers - practice tells more. Again, I am looking at my darkest pictures, and have no problem getting satisfactory shots.

First example: inside a church with the non-IS E24 at f/1.8. You can see all the candles in the church that were lit, and this was all the light available. The camera took the shutter time up to 1/60th at f/1.8 and ISO 1000.





Second example is a silly example that was a view from the apartment at night. The first shot, at 1/5th of a sec and ISO 3200 at f/2 mimics a little what the view was like, but the real view was actually a bit darker. You can tell from the lit sky -this is at night- the sky is really supposed to be dark.

I took these shots to test HHT, Night-scene and A and P mode - see the subsequent images. But shots like these are extreme, imo. As test-shots they are fine, as real shots, I am not so sure.





















The next shot - a crop with the 50mm - I included, to show a more typical 'low light' shot. The 'silly' Nex did not account for OSS, it happily shot ISO to 3200 and 1/80th, whereas ISO 400 at 1/20th would have been a better choice indeed. Even so, this type of lighting works fine hand held on a Nex.





Which repeats itself in this scene - trying to compare OSS versus non-OSS, but the camera keeps acting as if no OSS is present on the E50 versus E24:









And finally a handheld 50mm shot where the OSS did matter:





And find some more non-OSS low light shots with the 24mm lens here:
Again, I am not trying to prove one camera over another. I am merely putting context on your 'superior' way of claiming a 'best'. To me, the larger sensor has benefits that I care about and drawbacks that I work around. To others this may be different. If you can't get the best out of a Nex and use a different camera instead, that is your prerogative.

And please leave the personal attacks aside - we have seen enough of those in the past here.
I used the Nokton 35mm 1.2 with the NEX5N. I am selling the 35/1.2 and am moving to shooting lowlight with the EP-1 & 25/0.95 COMBO ONLY.

Unstabilized ISO1600 at the border of hand-holdability or at least 1/1.5xFL exposed ISO3200 from the NEX5N doesn't touch stabilized ISO200-400 on the two years old Oly. Sorry, but thanks for trying.

The newer sensor plus the better IBIS in the coming Olympus camera will wipe the floor with the lowlight abilities of the NEX line with any existing lens attached. Theoretically, only the 5N with the SEL 50/1.8 will be able to challenge it, but probably not, because F/0.95 paired with only the half length FL of the Voigtlander compared to the 50mm and the 1+2/3EV light lost because of the smaller 1.8 aperture gives you in real life light loss resulting in almost two times higher ISO for the NEX in lowlight.

And no. No NEX camera has that great output compared to the superior otput that I saw in the above comparison's samples. I tried and use the IBIS in the Oly and also the NEX line. I do not theoretize about something I do not have.

I am providing my experience, which I have no duty to defend. You can take it or leave it. I have no lust to waste time with some graphical explanation for the non-believing trollnamer. I shoot wonderful photos, and you spend time expanding your knowledge, not beliefs. NEX theoretician:>
--
Cheers,
Henry
 
My EP-1 works wonders with that lens compared to anything I was able to put on the NEX5N - If you intend NOT TO USE FLASH. It could run circles around the 5N with just about any lens attached. So there is and as far as I know will be NO better low-light camera gear combo option as the new Oly and the 25/0.95.
But, converted, isn't this approximately the same as the Nex with the CV 35/1.4?
Absolutely not.

Lenses do not magically change apertures when placed on different cameras. F/.95 is ALWAYS F/.95. A FF F/2 lens is F/2 on APS and F/2 on M43. The images are cropped differently but that is it. My bet is you are thinking of DoF.
I stand corrected - you are right
As for IBIS, I very often shoot at 1/30th with my 35mm (52.5mm EFL) lens. I have an A65 and without IS I would really need to go up to close to 1/100th in order to for a 24MP image to remain fairly sharp. Sure sometimes you can get sharp images at lower shutter speeds, but the hit rate drops dramatically. It is not worth taking the perfect shot and then finding it is blurry.
I agree with you, just that at 35mm and wider, I can often get decent (acceptable) results as low as 1/20th, handheld. Mostly on the 16Mp sensor, haven't done that much yet with the 24Mp - will find out.
I am excited about the 5 axis IBIS because every test so far says it as good as advertised, for video it is like using a steadycam - even with every legacy lens ever made, and seems better than in lens IS that can only stabilize 3.
Video without IS is not possible, handheld. I agree

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Cheers,
Henry
 
Lenses do not magically change apertures when placed on different cameras. f/0.95 is ALWAYS F/.95.
Yes and no. Because of the interaction with the microlenses on a sensor, you don't get all of the extra light. See

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Insights/F-stop-blues

While the charts here are for Canon/Nikon, the problem is the same for all sensors.

As a more real world example, look at the review on Steve Huff's site:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/02/28/the-voigtlander-f0-95-25mm-micro-43-lens-review-by-david-babsky/

Now find the two images marked [pub 25 0.95] and [pub 25 28] (and [pub 50 1.7]) and look at the settings: ISO 800 1/100@f/0.95 vs. ISO 800 1/50@f/2.8 vs. ISO 800 1/80@f/1.5. There should be just over 3 -stops difference between f/0.95 and f/2.8 but there is only 1 stop difference in shutter speed/ISO. The second image is underexposed by about 1/2 stop but that still leaves a 1.5 stop deficiency. There is less than1/3 stop gain vs. the f/1.5 lens as well.

Where did the light go? See the DxO article.

--
Erik
 
A very nice practical illustration. It is THAT security that the IBIS gives you in low light. That even, when you set the 1/FL exposure on the lowest ISO possible, that you will get 100-90% keepers even if you shoot 2/FL times. That security, that with a high probability, the only one shot you take, will be sharp. Not maybe just 1/3-1/2 of handheld shots will be just so-so sharp, but really sharp. Yes you can talk about the great high ISO on NEX, but I like 2 EV lower ISO on the stupid tiny 4/3 sensor more. The colors and details will be at 2EV difference better even on the inferior sensor.

And as far as I see from samples from the coming Oly, with IBIS and the 25/0.95 it will be THE LOW-LIGHT killer. I will be buying the new Oly and be getting stellar low-light shots from it. You shoot that awful HHT mode in JPEG or flash. In real low light I prefer stabilized RAW to even the superb SOOC JPEG from EP-1. My real camera experience lead me to this decisions.

And btw. IMO, the best low-light for NEX is still the wonderful 35/1.2. No other lens provided better low-light performance in my experience with the NEX3 and 5N. This lens for how fast it is and that it was designed for and since must not be that sharp like the m4/3 sensor 25/0.95. Yet, however, If you have the NEX and no m4/3 IBIS camera, want to shoot maximum available light at a reasonable FOV, go for the 35/1.2.

I tried the 25/0.95 with a adapter on my NEXes. The picture from it sucks. Not only it has black corners due to the smaller m4/3 sensor size. You just can see, that the lens and the sensor and the distance of the adapted combo, plainly doesn't work well.

Have a nice day!
 
And as far as I see from samples from the coming Oly, with IBIS and the 25/0.95 it will be THE LOW-LIGHT killer.
That is not the conclusion I've reached while seeing the samples and tests. AND this is only just for one lens. Anyhow, our mileage may vary...

You may be able to stop the camera shake with Oly 5-axis IBIS but it won't stop the movement of the target. There is no substitute for fast shutter speed.
Have a nice day!
You too! Obviously NEX is not for you, so get OM-D E-M5 and live happily thereafter.
 

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