Cave Advice

Gorilla pod, use the hand railing as the mount, set the camera at a reasonable iso, use aperture priority and let the camera do the rest.

Not familiar with mammoth, but in Carlsbad Caverns I found myself using 40mm-80mm equivalent a lot. It will just depend on the spaces in the cave and what you want to capture.

Carlsbad didn't care if you had a full tripod as long as you weren't obstructing other guests while using it, don't know about mammoth. I've used both a full-sized tripod and a gorillapod. I'll probably never take a full-sized tripod into a cave again. The gorillapod is far easier to set up, use, and move.

Some people like using flash in caves, I hate it. The colors captured in a long exposure are far, far superior IMO.

One note about the gorilla pod and hand rails, other guests bumping the hand rails can vibrate the camera, ruining the picture. So pay attention to that if you go that rout.

Good luck!
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http://www.pbase.com/quath

Bring an OMD-EM5!

have you seen the High ISO samples??

I WISH I could get mine tomorrow! I leave Thursday!

I did buy a 12mm f/2 which is supposed to arrive tomorrow. Still don't have a flash, but most of the stuff on the major tour is lighted anyway. Just hoping I can hold my E-P1 still enough! I'm going to be opening that lens all the way up, cranking the ISO to 800, and seeing if there's enough light. We'll see!

• Andy

Good luck. I haven't been to those caves, but I did shoot at the Camuy Caves in Puerto Rico a year ago. Thankfully, they allowed tripods (or at least didn't stop me from using one). The cave was lit, but nowhere near enough for hand-held. And it was so large that flash would have done nothing.

I used the 20mm, which was ok, but I would have preferred wider to really show how big the cave was. Too bad I didn't have my 7.5mm fisheye yet.

Here are a few shots from my trip, with EXIF intact to give you an idea of exposure.

Nice pics Chad. The last looks just like the entrance of Mammoth, except Mammoth has a staircase leading in/out.

Uncle Albert: Congrats on your 12/2 purchase. I think you will get really good mileage from this lens, but expecting it to perform handheld in a dark cave is a little optimistic. At least smuggle in a Gorilla Pod. If they bust you at least you tried ! Nobody reads signs anyway.

One other option, if you have a bricks and mortar camera store in town, see if they have an old used Vivitar 285 or similar. They usually cost less than $50. Just DO NOT use it in the Hot Shoe - it will cook your camera. Set up a 2 second F8 base ISO exposure and manually fire the flash (don't worry about the 1.9999 seconds when there is no light - just flash it during the 2 seconds). If you need more light, then boost your ISO. You can do this handheld or with an assistant (count down 3-2-1-Fire). Again, practicing technique before hand in a blacked out room will pay off huge.

Good luck.

"Camera tripods and monopods, child strollers and infant backpack carriers are prohibited in the cave for visitor safety." *

As all the tours are guided so they can easily WATCH. Don't be that guy trying to sneak a tripod in. You need a flash . Bottom line, no other way. Have you been in a cave? ISO 12,800 would not get you a hand held shot. Get a flash or don't bother with the camera in the cave. Most attractions sell slides!

Yes it sucks they do not allow tripod but they seem rather strict. Realistically your shots would likely blow anyway as shooting in caves is difficult and takes some practice.
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RonFrank

RonFrank said:

"Camera tripods and monopods, child strollers and infant backpack carriers are prohibited in the cave for visitor safety." *

As all the tours are guided so they can easily WATCH. Don't be that guy trying to sneak a tripod in. You need a flash . Bottom line, no other way. Have you been in a cave? ISO 12,800 would not get you a hand held shot. Get a flash or don't bother with the camera in the cave. Most attractions sell slides!

Yes it sucks they do not allow tripod but they seem rather strict. Realistically your shots would likely blow anyway as shooting in caves is difficult and takes some practice.
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RonFrank

Click to expand...

Ruby Falls (TN) have all the passages marked with little LED lights, all particular amusements are lighted too (low light)

The same I can say about Dead Sea - for clients safety all passages are lighted.

I do not remember any posted rules, but there is no way to use tripod, big or small, because you're part of the group of tourists and you have to move.

About flash: bounced flash in many cases will not help because ceilings do not bounce. Camera flash is the only one that worked for me.
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I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.

Let me get this straight.

I might be OK with the widest lens possible and a shoe mounted flash?

How about a G1, 14-42 kit lens, and shoe mounted flash(aimed at the target image and NOT bounced)? ISO 400? f8? Would one of those cheaper flash units like Polaroid or Neewer (both around $50) work OK? I'm not a flash shooter. So would hate to spend more if I could get by with one of these.

OR

Would I only get hit and miss shots with this arrangement?.....and probably more misses than hits?

Won't the use of flash in caverns be somewhat discourtious to the others?

Thanks for the tip!! I'll see if I can smuggle one.

I've been in many caves, and I've also been in Mammoth Cave. A flash is not likely to get enough light in to make a difference. As I said, it's not going to be pitch-black. They're lit, from what I remember. And believe me, I won't be cranking my ISO up too high. If I can't get a decent shot by placing the camera on a handrail or something to that effect, I'll just enjoy the trip and let the camera hang around my neck. But I'm not sure a flash would help too much in the larger domes. They get seriously "mammoth." I'd feel like one of those people using a flash to shoot the moon. ;-)

And I probably won't be bringing in a gorilla pod now that I think about it. I've got four kids and will probably need two hands at all times.

I was thinking the same thing about blinding the other tourists.

So then, maybe I should get a fast, wide prime, and hope for some stable anchor

like a railing or something, and just go with it? This will be my first expereince into any cave this large. So I'd like to get at least a few of my own shots. I'm not shooting for a cover for N.G.

Me, neither. Tell you what - I'll experiment with my setup tomorrow when I visit, post my best shots here (if they aren't total crap) and maybe that will give you something to work with? I'm just going to go with my E-P1 and 12mm f/2 and roll the dice. I'm counting on there being some kind of surface to set it on...of course, if I had my OM-D, I'd be able to handhold to 1/2 a second (according to Robin Wong). We'll see!!

P.S. See chad's shots above? He kept the ISO low at 200 or 400, with a slow shutter and f/1.7. Maybe since I'll be using a wide angle prime at f/2 I can get away with shooting ISO 800 or 1600. We'll see. The lighting he has in his pics is very similar to what I remember from Mammoth.

THANKS FOR THE HELP!!!

I wouldn't use the kit lens. f/3.5 is sure to be too dark.

The 20mm f/1.7 would probably work! I'm not using mine, however, because of the field of view.

BobT said:

Let me get this straight.

I might be OK with the widest lens possible and a shoe mounted flash?

How about a G1, 14-42 kit lens, and shoe mounted flash(aimed at the target image and NOT bounced)? ISO 400? f8? Would one of those cheaper flash units like Polaroid or Neewer (both around $50) work OK? I'm not a flash shooter. So would hate to spend more if I could get by with one of these.

OR

Would I only get hit and miss shots with this arrangement?.....and probably more misses than hits?

Won't the use of flash in caverns be somewhat discourtious to the others?

Click to expand...

Straight answer:
You're OK with shoe mount flash
You will be OK with G1
14-42 lens is not OK. EVF will be dark, camera couldn't lock the focus.

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I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.

Well, they're certainly not National Geographic-caliber, but they serve my purposes. For those that are interested; I'll give you an update on what I learned from this weekend.

1.) Even if they allowed tripods, there's not much chance to use them - it's a pretty fast-paced tour.
2.) 80% or more is lighted, but dimly.

3.) There are a ton of handrails, at least on the tour I went on - the Historic Tour.

4.) I wouldn't go with anything narrower than a 12mm. I felt that that wasn't wide enough. I also barely made it through using f/2.0. Anything larger would be better. I found that at f/2 and at ISO 800 or 1600 I was getting shutter speeds of about 1/2 a second, with exposure comp at -3 or -7.

5.) A lot of people used flash, but I personally don't think I'd like the results for myself. And I about had a fit of epileptic seizures from all the other people using them. If you do take a flash, please be considerate. I got a flash to the face, and wasn't too happy about it. There was like one other guy who went with no flash, he was toting a 5DmkII and had what appeared to be a wide-angle prime with a large aperture. Wish I had that OM-D, that would've helped with its IS!
6.) Don't take kids under 4. My two-year-old was dead weight.

I plan to upload photos, but I'll wait until the uploader isn't being stupid anymore.

Here's what I was able to get on my E-P1 with the 12mm f/2.0. Not the best, but they work for me!