...and what happens when you apply the same post production to the D800E sample?
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D800e vs D800 Sample RAW on Polish website
- Thread starter kuzmacom2
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- nikon d800 nikon d800e
i couldn't download the d800 ISO1600 image
but the color chart in ISO100 I could and there are some fine lint hairs etc. and I really don't see any difference in capture NX between these cameras
fabgo
Senior Member
Exactly! Thanks for finding and posting this.
I was long decided on the D800E as I mostly plan to use it for nature/landscapes, but once I started seeing some of the recent samples I realized false color is going to be a much bigger problem than I thought. And the resolution gain in the E version really is minimal. If you open the RAW files and set sharpness to zero, both look soft.
So now I am all set with the D800. I saved $300, I get the camera a few weeks earlier, and I am quite confident I'll never regret my decision.
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Fabian
Julian Vrieslander
Senior Member
Well, as expected, the D800E gets a tiny bit sharper and more contrasty. But the files from E are already about as sharp as you would need, right out of camera. Applying USM might make them over-sharpened and "crunchy". I think these results bear out what the PP experts have been saying for years: that adding a small amount of of "capture sharpening" to a RAW file is useful for counteracting the softening effects of an AA filter.
Fearless_Photog
Senior Member
If that's your conclusion you must think that cameras like the D700 and D3 are totally unusable at high ISO, since the D800 seems to outperform either in every comparison I've seen.
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fabgo
Senior Member
Definitely. The sharpness increase in the D800E really is minimal. ANd I can't detect any extra detail. Once you get towards the extinction resolution all the D800E does is start to introduce false color.
I'm actually quite surprised Nikon bothered with the E version.
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Fabian
powertoold
Leading Member
Sense, he does not make much.
fabgo
Senior Member
The ribbons don't have enough fine detail to cause moire. I think you'll be surprised at how frequently the D800E will cause moire compared to the D800. I found some moire on the brown shirt of the guitarist posted a couple of days ago. It's hard to see because of the color of his shirt, but it's there.
Also, moire is one thing, false color is another. And the D800E seems very susceptible to false color in fabrics and fine details. I have found plenty of examples of that in the samples posted so far. In the D800 this isn't a problem at all.
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Fabian
fabgo
Senior Member
Todd, why would that make a difference? Fine detail is fine detail. Check out the fine down on the feathers in the bottom right corner of the picture. If there is any extra detail to be found in the D800E, I can't see it.
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Fabian
raw processed in capture nx, D800 image lowered .15, NR off, vignette off, CA off, wb on white area below dollar bill
d800 top
at 400% i can see a advantage to the D800e but i sure would like to make sure it isn't focus
joeyv
Leading Member
James Bligh
Senior Member
Comparison with 5D3 or D4 may be more relevant.
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SixteenBit
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Anyone converted them with no sharpening set at all ? With sharpening, it's hard to tell if that's sharpness from "E" or from sharpening.
Relevant to what? It certainly isn't relevant to your statement that the "D800/D800E is basically a low ISO camera", because the D3 and D700 are excellent low-light cameras, and the D800 outperforms them. But if it's any consolation, I haven't seen the D4 and certainly not the 5DIII outperform the D800 either.
bclaff
Forum Pro
Thanks for pointing out the site.
I downloaded everything; but the D800E at ISO 100 was the most important as I previously had no D800E below ISO 200.
On my tests the D800E has consistently less read noise than the D800 over all ISOs.
http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#D800_14,D800E_14
(The upturn on the D800 at ISO 50 is probably a slight measurement error.)
The influence on Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) is small, about 1/4 EV at ISO 100.
http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#D800,D800E,D800%28e%29,D800E%28e
(The slight dip at ISO 400 and ISO 800 for the D800 is probably slight measurement errors.)
This could be sample variation between cameras as it's not clear how the AA filter would affect read noise. We will know better when proper test images can be taken.
Still, it's "interesting" for now.
Regards
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Bill (visit me at http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/ )
I downloaded everything; but the D800E at ISO 100 was the most important as I previously had no D800E below ISO 200.
On my tests the D800E has consistently less read noise than the D800 over all ISOs.
http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#D800_14,D800E_14
(The upturn on the D800 at ISO 50 is probably a slight measurement error.)
The influence on Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) is small, about 1/4 EV at ISO 100.
http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#D800,D800E,D800%28e%29,D800E%28e
(The slight dip at ISO 400 and ISO 800 for the D800 is probably slight measurement errors.)
This could be sample variation between cameras as it's not clear how the AA filter would affect read noise. We will know better when proper test images can be taken.
Still, it's "interesting" for now.
Regards
--
Bill (visit me at http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/ )
sebastian73
Leading Member
and I haven't seen that the D800 outpreform the D4 and the 5DIII in high ISO.
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Fearless_Photog
Senior Member
Are we really going down this road? Clearly D800's high ISO performance is more than good if it's actually got superior performance to a sensor that is known mostly for it's exceptional high ISO performance, and so far has not been shown to be definitively worse than the D4. To me the speed and body of the D4 is more of a selling point than it's high ISO performance relative to other cameras.
When I joined this forum any camera that could produce even a passable ISO 6400 image at web size was considered to have great high ISO performance. The lighting conditions of world around us haven't gotten worse as cameras have improved, so I'd say any camera with great ISO 6400, that I could easily make a large print from is more than "basically a low ISO camera"
Not to mention the fact that the D800 also has the strong points of having unquestionably the highest resolution and highest dynamic range of any 35mm DSLR produced so far, that DR advantage is also maintained throughout it's ISO range from what I've seen.
Maybe if you feel like the majority of your photography work will be done above ISO 25600, and DR and resolution are lower down on the priority list, this isn't the camera for you. It is the camera for me though.
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James Bligh
Senior Member
You said 'I haven't seen the D4 and certainly not the 5DIII outperform the D800 either.' According to specifications frame rates are vastly different among them. So are you saying 4 FPS outperforms 6 FPS or 10 FPS? You are absurd at best.
Those cameras are not available to people yet, not to mention any thorough reviews of them. So it is prudent not to say anything conclusive but I think it is safe to say D800/D800E is basically a low ISO camera compared with D4 or 5D3. Satisfied?
Jesus, I don't know why people compare a product of 2012 with products made by technology of several years ago.
Decision, decision, we are the slaves of decisions we made inadvertently.
May God forgive us our imperfections!
Dust to dust, what on earth are we entitled to claim?
Those cameras are not available to people yet, not to mention any thorough reviews of them. So it is prudent not to say anything conclusive but I think it is safe to say D800/D800E is basically a low ISO camera compared with D4 or 5D3. Satisfied?
Jesus, I don't know why people compare a product of 2012 with products made by technology of several years ago.
--
Decision, decision, we are the slaves of decisions we made inadvertently.
May God forgive us our imperfections!
Dust to dust, what on earth are we entitled to claim?
Wow, a nice leap of logic there. How you were able to lose the context of a discussion you yourself started is beyond me. Anyway, let me break it down to you in the hope that you can get back on track:
You said that you believe that the D800/D800E is basically a low ISO camera.
Fearless_Photog points out that the D800 appears to be better than the D3 and D700, both of which are far from low ISO cameras. In fact both are renowned for their low-light capability.
You then say that you believe that a comparison to the D4 or 5DIII would be more relevant when discussing if the D800 is a low ISO camera or not.
I then point out that seeing as the D800 seems to outperform the D3 and D700 at high ISOs, the D800 is obviously not only a low ISO camera. Because remember, the D3 and D700 are both excellent low light cameras, and only a little worse than the best.
After that I, in this context about high ISO performance , say that I haven't seen the 5DIII or the D4 outperform the D800. Now, you for some incomprehensible reason managed to mistake my comment as one concerning FPS. This, as I hope is obvious now, isn't what I was referring to. I was in my reply there adhering to the same context that the previous 2 replies did. Absurd indeed.
You might of course say that it's your opinion, but I would certainly don't think that it's safe to say that the 5DIII will be better than the D800 at high ISOs. Personally, I believe that the opposite is true. And I also believe the distinction between the D4 and the D800 will be minuscule at best. As more and more samples start surfacing, I'm becoming more and more confident in my opinion.
When discussing if something is suitable for a task, then there's really nothing wrong with comparing to older models that excelled at said task. The D3 was very well suited for low-light shooting, and thus, comparing the D800 to it makes perfect sense. Especially as it outperforms it. Even if the D4 is a smidgen better than the D800, then that doesn't mean that the D800 would be a low ISO camera. It could still be better than cameras that excel at low-light shooting, even if it is second best.
You said that you believe that the D800/D800E is basically a low ISO camera.
Fearless_Photog points out that the D800 appears to be better than the D3 and D700, both of which are far from low ISO cameras. In fact both are renowned for their low-light capability.
You then say that you believe that a comparison to the D4 or 5DIII would be more relevant when discussing if the D800 is a low ISO camera or not.
I then point out that seeing as the D800 seems to outperform the D3 and D700 at high ISOs, the D800 is obviously not only a low ISO camera. Because remember, the D3 and D700 are both excellent low light cameras, and only a little worse than the best.
After that I, in this context about high ISO performance , say that I haven't seen the 5DIII or the D4 outperform the D800. Now, you for some incomprehensible reason managed to mistake my comment as one concerning FPS. This, as I hope is obvious now, isn't what I was referring to. I was in my reply there adhering to the same context that the previous 2 replies did. Absurd indeed.
You might of course say that it's your opinion, but I would certainly don't think that it's safe to say that the 5DIII will be better than the D800 at high ISOs. Personally, I believe that the opposite is true. And I also believe the distinction between the D4 and the D800 will be minuscule at best. As more and more samples start surfacing, I'm becoming more and more confident in my opinion.
When discussing if something is suitable for a task, then there's really nothing wrong with comparing to older models that excelled at said task. The D3 was very well suited for low-light shooting, and thus, comparing the D800 to it makes perfect sense. Especially as it outperforms it. Even if the D4 is a smidgen better than the D800, then that doesn't mean that the D800 would be a low ISO camera. It could still be better than cameras that excel at low-light shooting, even if it is second best.
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