I'm not sure how they could make a focus ring do double duty as an aperture ring. Aperture rings have click stops so you can set aperture and keep it there. Would people want a focus ring with click stops? Or would it be a free-turning aperture ring with no click stops, so the aperture would change any time the ring was moved? That might get a bit annoying, resulting in unwanted aperture changes. Or would there be some mechanism to engage/disengage those click stops? All of this seems a bit complicated, and a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. All of this so that some people can use the focus ring to change aperture instead of using some convenient thumb wheel on the camera. It could happen, but I don't see it as a big priority for camera manufacturers, so it seems a bit unlikely.
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Fuji X Pro 1 or Olympus EM-5? Which one would you get and why?
- Thread starter LuckysPen
- Start date
Michael Kaufman
Senior Member
Again, calling people names might make you feel better, but it is unlikely to convince anyone of whatever point you are trying to make. I'm not actually sure what that point is, but that's really your fault, not mine.
Another thing that might make you feel better would be to read the thread before you start insulting people in it. If you did, you might have noticed that I had already posted ( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40871621 ) that I was going to get the E-M5 rather then the XPro1. If you bothered to read (and digest) other people's post's you wouldn't end up looking quite so stupid.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/
Then the X-Pro1 system is for you! Just don't expect it to make a widespread comeback on other camera systems. The X-Pro1 is a niche retro camera with some niche retro features (like the aperture ring) designed to appeal to people just like you. There's definitely a place for it in the market. However, for plenty of other people, it's more of a nostalgic novelty. A trip down memory lane. I'm sure I would enjoy using the X-Pro1 and its aperture ring for a narrow selection of lenses, but I can't see myself wanting an entire modern lens system with aperture rings. For me, it's a lot like having a dial on the camera with every shutter speed printed on it (like the X-Pro1 has); it looks cool and is fun to use in an old-timey kind of way, but at the end of the day it's unnecessary and superfluous, and a superficial nod to retro design.
dv312
Veteran Member
1) keep my OM cameras company
2) smaller, lighter form factor
3) smaller lenses
4) in bodyIS
5) faster AF
6) IQ good enough for my needs
7) more handsome body
8) flip up LCD
9) better EVF
10) more affordable
11) more and better lens selection
12) can use FT zooms
13) can use my current MFT lenses and accessories
14) wireless flash and better and more complete system overall
sensor advantage may sway in Fuji favor but not by much ...still TBD
I see nothing else in the Fuji which is more appealing than the E-M5
Cheers ;-))
2) smaller, lighter form factor
3) smaller lenses
4) in bodyIS
5) faster AF
6) IQ good enough for my needs
7) more handsome body
8) flip up LCD
9) better EVF
10) more affordable
11) more and better lens selection
12) can use FT zooms
13) can use my current MFT lenses and accessories
14) wireless flash and better and more complete system overall
sensor advantage may sway in Fuji favor but not by much ...still TBD
I see nothing else in the Fuji which is more appealing than the E-M5
Cheers ;-))
Michael Kaufman
Senior Member
I think you are stretching here. You say they talk off the aperture ring for a good reason. What do you think that reason is? Is that reason specific to a ring, or does it apply to buttons as well? If so, why did they choose to break it for their latest and greatest lens? If people like it on the 12-50, don't you think they might start putting it on more lenses?
And finally, if having controls on the lens is such a bad idea, why does the m4/3 standard support it?
By the way, my own opinion is that I kind of like having the aperture controls on the lens, but I think its mostly because that's how it worked when I was first learning photography. I also like the idea of having some controls for my left hand, so that the right hand isn't doing all the heavy lifting.
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It's not unusual for lenses to have additional function controls, like AF/MF, IS On/Off, IS Mode, AF On/Off. It just depends on if there's room for it on the lens. Just look at the Canon 500/4L IS, for example. There are tons of buttons and switches on it (below). But that doesn't mean there's also an aperture ring. So, yes, in the case of Canon lenses (and Nikon lenses, and a lot of other lenses), it is "specific to a ring [specifically an aperture ring ], or does it apply to buttons as well." And likewise, it probably applies to Oly's lenses, too. Indeed, no one is looking at Canon or Nikon lenses and saying, "if having controls on the lens is such a bad idea, why do Canon and Nikon lenses support it?" Clearly, these lenses have controls on them, but they don't have aperture rings on them.
The use of aperture rings on lenses have fallen out of favor in modern times, for various reasons. And just because some lenses support certain controls does not indicate that aperture rings are coming back. Don't think: "Ah-ah! A control button! That means we're getting aperture control rings next!"
Plus, to add insult to injury, I pointed out in a previous posting that the Mamiya/Phase One medium format system has lenses that do have a narrow ring that looks like it could be used as an aperture ring, but instead they've used it as an AF/MF switch! Sorry!
Also, if you look at the Pentax medium format system's latest AF lenses, you'll see knurling where an aperture ring could or should be, but alas there is no aperture ring! Sorry again!
I guess modern camera and lens designers have all mostly decided that aperture control works really well when it's located on the camera, and so they've decided to stick with that. Heck, even a conservative company like Leica decided that their S2 system lenses shouldn't have aperture rings. Sorry for a third time!
Unfortunately you got personal before I ever did, adding NO information about the model.
That is technically what is being called a troll, whatever the model.
Am.
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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
Michael Kaufman
Senior Member
I got personal?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40877282
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40877849
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40877849
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40877849
You may not be aware of this, but people can actually see your posts after you move on to the next one. You may think you can make it up as you go along, but you should probably keep that in mind.
The closest I came to "getting personal" was to point out to you that calling people names might make you feel clever but was unlikely to convince anyone. I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings, but it happens to be true.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/
I don't know you, so keep your distance.
I might even develop a passion for the Fuji, as a result.
Perhaps it has more humour than your teutonic self, after all.
Therefore you are being ignored
Am.
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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
I might even develop a passion for the Fuji, as a result.
Perhaps it has more humour than your teutonic self, after all.
Therefore you are being ignored
Am.
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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
Michael Kaufman
Senior Member
I'll try to survive the pain. You didn't seem to be reading my posts that carefully before, so I am not sure I will be able to tell the difference anyhow.
I do hope if you see this you will take my advice about posting to heart. It just makes you look silly when you say things that are provably untrue by your previous postings. You should try not to do that any more.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/
Michael Kaufman
Senior Member
Hey that's exactly what I decided. Although, I plan to continue using the X100 as well.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/
My great plan is to wait till enough people have both and perhaps I can try one in the store.
No need to rush. I have x100 and I am very satisfied, but I am not quite sure why would I want to upgrade just after a year for twice the original x100 price. It is not like xpro1 is in different league than x100 ( as I know my little patience in carrying lenses I would still only use one lens). The main gripe with x100 is its AF and the xpro1 is again not in different league - mostly just a bit improved x100 for 200% price.
The E-m5 looks really interesting but I was not that thrilled with m43 till now. I had briefly the first pen and the operation was slow for me and it eat through the battery in few hours.
So far I would get e-m5 if it does improve my workflow and that needs to be seen or I will get neither one and simply happily use x100 another year. The water resistance is another plus that no my other camer has, but then I really dislike the WR lens that comes with it, it is miles long.
No need to rush. I have x100 and I am very satisfied, but I am not quite sure why would I want to upgrade just after a year for twice the original x100 price. It is not like xpro1 is in different league than x100 ( as I know my little patience in carrying lenses I would still only use one lens). The main gripe with x100 is its AF and the xpro1 is again not in different league - mostly just a bit improved x100 for 200% price.
The E-m5 looks really interesting but I was not that thrilled with m43 till now. I had briefly the first pen and the operation was slow for me and it eat through the battery in few hours.
So far I would get e-m5 if it does improve my workflow and that needs to be seen or I will get neither one and simply happily use x100 another year. The water resistance is another plus that no my other camer has, but then I really dislike the WR lens that comes with it, it is miles long.
I am not sure I'll buy any of the two, so no vested interest here.
Main consideration is the lack of specific Fuji lenses. It could be circumvented by using M39 stuff, but even that doesn’t allow for the choice we are offered by other systems.
It is the OVF and its complex system of lenses which dictated a restricted range of lenses. So in the end the Fuji is going to be a much smaller system than other mirrorless.
You can like a camera as much as you want, but one must be aware of the system’s potential to avoid regrets later.
Am.
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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
Main consideration is the lack of specific Fuji lenses. It could be circumvented by using M39 stuff, but even that doesn’t allow for the choice we are offered by other systems.
It is the OVF and its complex system of lenses which dictated a restricted range of lenses. So in the end the Fuji is going to be a much smaller system than other mirrorless.
You can like a camera as much as you want, but one must be aware of the system’s potential to avoid regrets later.
Am.
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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
I've the X-Pro1.
If you don't need the high ISO, go for Micro Four Thirds.
If you don't need the extra bokeh from the larger sensor, go for Micro Four Thirds
Note that in the future, MFT cameras will have great high ISO performance also.
If you don't need the high ISO, go for Micro Four Thirds.
If you don't need the extra bokeh from the larger sensor, go for Micro Four Thirds
Note that in the future, MFT cameras will have great high ISO performance also.
MAubrey
Senior Member
MAubrey
Senior Member
You're a goofy fellow...
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--Mike
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--Mike
I'm in the same boat, but am currently leaning toward the Fuji. I want the IQ out of my mirrorless camera to come as close as possible to my full frame DSLR, and the Fuji is more likely to deliver that. There is a size difference between both cameras, but it's not exactly enormous ( http://camerasize.com/compare/#258,289 ) and I could live with it, especially considering that both cameras are much smaller than a DSLR ( http://camerasize.com/compare/#258,290 ). In my ideal world, sure, the Fuji would be smaller... but I think it's still small enough to match my needs.
The three initial lenses available for the Fuji are fine by me; especially since m43's best lenses are the 12mm, 25mm, and 45mm, with which the Fuji lenses match up pretty well. I also think Fuji's lens roadmap makes a lot of sense, and they aren't bothering with the pointless variable aperture kit zooms that so many other manufactures seem obsessed with. The remaining question mark for me is AF speed—I know the Olympus will be exceptional, but I don't think I personally need anything faster than my old E-PL2... In most cases where I would need that I'd generally use my DSLR anyway.
Sometimes retro isn't so bad, particularly when the retro design is easier to use. In my opinion, buttons and dials with dedicated functions and prominent placement are always better. This is one of the reasons I have always preferred Nikon's cameras over Canon's, for example.
Now, is some of Fuji's design a little over the top? Sure... The screw-in cable release, for example. But, personally, I like the aperture ring and dedicated shutter speed and exposure compensation dials.
For now. Their roadmap for the next couple of years includes a 21mm EFL prime, an ultra wide zoom similar to the 9-18 EFL, and a telephoto zoom similar to the 40-150. Time will tell how well they deliver, but their proposed lenses are all I'd want in a system camera. It also includes a 35mm EFL lens which could replace the X100 for those that have it.
Depends on whether you consider the OVF a great feature or as a limitation. I don't know if there's any way to make an OVF like that work with a zoom - seems highly challenging to me but it would be interesting to see. But the LL review suggests the zooms and the wider angle options would be EVF only. Fuji has also talked about this as a system with more than one body option in time, and they're planning a lower cost body as part of that. My guess is it'll skip the OVF and just go with an EVF. Or who knows, maybe a Pen like body with no built in finder but a detachable one available? Theyve also talked about a PDAF/CDAF hybrid for future bodies. A lot remains to be seen.
Yes, one must. Sounds like you weren't aware of Fuji's stated plans. Obviously, there are no guarantees that they'll come to fruition. Which is why I might move to this system if they prove out, but will not be an early adopter of it.
-Ray
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