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A funny observation tonight

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Benjamin Stephens

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I got the chance to help a friend tonight that shoot's NBA. It was great...running cards and copying files...looking how remotes were setup, strobes. For an amateur it was a great experience.

The really funny thing was the equipment..1D2n, 1D3's, 100-400 lenses, and then a few 5D2's and 1D4's but really....no one was griping about banding...or low MP, the lack of USB3 or a popup flash.

These people were professionals and they were making money at this....it was not just a hobby. That being said I did hear some comments about looking forward to the AF performance of the 5D3 and the 6 FPS being a great addition.

Just an observation.....and maybe a thought that there are just a lot of geek heads out there.....
 
I know some professional wedding shooters that really like the improved ISO and dual card slots.

I'm not a bit surprised that professional sports shooters would like like the improved AF, ISO and FPS.

Neither wedding or sport photographers are looking for more megapixels to make their job easier. They are looking for the kinds of things that were improved in the 5D III.

I expect thought that a lot of amateur/hobby photographers will be impressed by megapixels, since it is so easy to compare megapixels between cameras.
 
I forgot to mention professional landscape shooters, who definitely do want more megapixels. They are not happy about the 5D III.
 
Benjamin Stephens said:
I got the chance to help a friend tonight that shoot's NBA. It was great...running cards and copying files...looking how remotes were setup, strobes. For an amateur it was a great experience.

The really funny thing was the equipment..1D2n, 1D3's, 100-400 lenses, and then a few 5D2's and 1D4's but really....no one was griping about banding...or low MP, the lack of USB3 or a popup flash.

These people were professionals and they were making money at this....it was not just a hobby. That being said I did hear some comments about looking forward to the AF performance of the 5D3 and the 6 FPS being a great addition.

Just an observation.....and maybe a thought that there are just a lot of geek heads out there.....
Click to expand...
There's just one problem. I don't shoot professionally at NBA games. How does this relate to me and thousands, if not millions of people like me who don't shoot professional at NBA games but spend good money on our expensive hobbies?

The unwashed masses demand perfection -- we care about banding, low MP, USB3, etc... If it weren't for us, "professionals" would probably be shooting film -- REAL film and everything would be 10X more expensive.

Most of all, I think the unwashed masses don't want to feel that they are getting ripped off.... 5D3 seems like a ripoff compared to its competitors... especially to those who bought into the canon system expecting reasonable prices for great equipment.
 
Banding is available for bad photographers, 22 megapixels is hardly what i call a low number and usb could be history sooner than later.under or over expose by more than 4 stops you are shooting crappy photos anyhow.
 
eleison24 said:
There's just one problem. I don't shoot professionally at NBA games. How does this relate to me and thousands, if not millions of people like me who don't shoot professional at NBA games but spend good money on our expensive hobbies?

The unwashed masses demand perfection -- we care about banding, low MP, USB3, etc... If it weren't for us, "professionals" would probably be shooting film -- REAL film and everything would be 10X more expensive.

Most of all, I think the unwashed masses don't want to feel that they are getting ripped off.... 5D3 seems like a ripoff compared to its competitors... especially to those who bought into the canon system expecting reasonable prices for great equipment.
Click to expand...
Excellent post. If these cameras were $300 it would be a different matter...but we're talking about $3.5k discretionary purchases. The novelty and awe of the digital imaging revolution drove much of the success for Canon/Nikon but that time has past and now nearly every digital camera available will do the job well. If they want to continue selling us $3k+ bodies then they'll need to step up to the plate.
 
eleison24 said:
Benjamin Stephens wrote:

There's just one problem. I don't shoot professionally at NBA games. How does this relate to me and thousands, if not millions of people like me who don't shoot professional at NBA games but spend good money on our expensive hobbies?
Click to expand...
Good question. I am a hobbyist too. I own few Canon DSLRs and more than few (18 to be precise) Canon lenses
eleison24 said:
The unwashed masses demand perfection -- we care about banding, low MP, USB3, etc... If it weren't for us, "professionals" would probably be shooting film -- REAL film and everything would be 10X more expensive.
Click to expand...
Perfection doesn't exist in anything and its a relative term. So, I don't want perfection. That would be naive. I want what I am missing in my current set up for my photographic needs.

Yes, I care about banding too. I wish, Canon fixed it completely, not just partially.
I don't think 22 MP is low, I don't want more.

I don't care about USB speed. I am more interested in FPS. Talking about speed, like many, I am worried that, not only 36Mp is unnecessary, it will slow down my workflow.
eleison24 said:
Most of all, I think the unwashed masses don't want to feel that they are getting ripped off.... 5D3 seems like a ripoff compared to its competitors... especially to those who bought into the canon system expecting reasonable prices for great equipment.
Click to expand...
The feeling of being ripped off is in our heads. Like everything else it depends on our perspectives. From my perspective, I don't feel being ripped off. I know its an excellent piece of equipment, much better than my 5D2, and will serve me better. I will happily pay for the improvement. I never compare 5D3 price with that of D800. Its an excellent piece of equipment too, but I have no interest in that camera or their system. My current system serves me well.

In capitalist market system everybody is trying to make a profit. Canon is not a saint, neither is Nikon. Sony invested millions in their sensor technology to make profit, not to serve us. I won't hold it against them. I don't know why there is a 500/- dollar price difference. All I know is that the current pricing from Canon and Nikon is driven by their intention to make profit.

Photography is an expensive hobby. I do it because I can be creative with it. I do it because I can be expressive with it. For me, lenses are the limiting factors, not modern camera bodies, at least not 99% of the time. Would I pay 3500/- the improvement? I would. Because, what i get out of my hobby can't be measured in dollars.

I don't disrespect your perspective. If 36 Mp and USB 3 would make you happy, go for it. Life is short. :)
 
aftab said:
aftab said:
Benjamin Stephens wrote:

There's just one problem. I don't shoot professionally at NBA games. How does this relate to me and thousands, if not millions of people like me who don't shoot professional at NBA games but spend good money on our expensive hobbies?
Click to expand...
Good question. I am a hobbyist too. I own few Canon DSLRs and more than few (18 to be precise) Canon lenses
aftab said:
The unwashed masses demand perfection -- we care about banding, low MP, USB3, etc... If it weren't for us, "professionals" would probably be shooting film -- REAL film and everything would be 10X more expensive.
Click to expand...
Perfection doesn't exist in anything and its a relative term. So, I don't want perfection. That would be naive. I want what I am missing in my current set up for my photographic needs.

Yes, I care about banding too. I wish, Canon fixed it completely, not just partially.
I don't think 22 MP is low, I don't want more.

I don't care about USB speed. I am more interested in FPS. Talking about speed, like many, I am worried that, not only 36Mp is unnecessary, it will slow down my workflow.
aftab said:
Most of all, I think the unwashed masses don't want to feel that they are getting ripped off.... 5D3 seems like a ripoff compared to its competitors... especially to those who bought into the canon system expecting reasonable prices for great equipment.
Click to expand...
The feeling of being ripped off is in our heads. Like everything else it depends on our perspectives. From my perspective, I don't feel being ripped off. I know its an excellent piece of equipment, much better than my 5D2, and will serve me better. I will happily pay for the improvement. I never compare 5D3 price with that of D800. Its an excellent piece of equipment too, but I have no interest in that camera or their system. My current system serves me well.

In capitalist market system everybody is trying to make a profit. Canon is not a saint, neither is Nikon. Sony invested millions in their sensor technology to make profit, not to serve us. I won't hold it against them. I don't know why there is a 500/- dollar price difference. All I know is that the current pricing from Canon and Nikon is driven by their intention to make profit.

Photography is an expensive hobby. I do it because I can be creative with it. I do it because I can be expressive with it. For me, lenses are the limiting factors, not modern camera bodies, at least not 99% of the time. Would I pay 3500/- the improvement? I would. Because, what i get out of my hobby can't be measured in dollars.

I don't disrespect your perspective. If 36 Mp and USB 3 would make you happy, go for it. Life is short. :)
Click to expand...
--
My little gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24309512@N06/

+1

often it's a hobby which should be enjoyed, get what you can afford and serves your "needs", Canon and Nikon try to serve your needs as good as possible under the premiss of making a profit. Want 36mp and can afford a 2nd cam or a switch? go for it, each to his own. I could afford to get the d800 but as I am a hobbyist and til now prefer the Canon lens line-up and know that working/trying to get my head around 2 systems will rather degrade my quality (nothing to brag about up to today) even further. I just don't see the sense, but that's me. If I was a landscape fan I'd be on preorder for the d800, but I'm looking forward to the real-world reviews and am excited to see how the markIII holds up to 1dx and d4 which are rather in my style of shooting (though not really what I like to spend for a hobby).
 
Mike Ca said:
I forgot to mention professional landscape shooters, who definitely do want more megapixels. They are not happy about the 5D III.
Click to expand...
How many professional landscape photographers are there in the world? Any idea?
 
Aftab

i liked your opinion on this subject, but im sticking with mine in a earlier post, that shooting pics more than 4 stops out is the main cause of banding by people try to perform miracles on their computers, good photographers and good police officers have something in common,they think before they shoot,you usually get a better result in the end.
 
Benjamin Stephens said:
The really funny thing was the equipment..1D2n, 1D3's, 100-400 lenses, and then a few 5D2's and 1D4's but really....no one was griping about banding...or low MP, the lack of USB3 or a popup flash.
Click to expand...
Did you expect them to stop shooting the event and sit in a row and discuss issues they have to deal with? There is a time and place for everything, and a real event is not a place to reflect on the limitations of the gear

I am sure, when all is done, many of those same professionals would wish for features that will make there life easier. say larger real time data transfer that would someday avoid all the running around to backup and copy cards. no banding so that they spend less time post processing etc.
Benjamin Stephens said:
That being said I did hear some comments about looking forward to the AF performance of the 5D3 and the 6 FPS being a great addition.
Click to expand...
exactly. It's on their mind because it helps in the end. It does not stop the world as it is now, of course
Benjamin Stephens said:
Just an observation.....and maybe a thought that there are just a lot of geek heads out there.....
Click to expand...
immaterial, I would say. Unless you can prove that none of the professionals you met ever talks about those things. What if when the job is finished and done, they come and rant on dpreview about their hardships :)

--
PicPocket
http://photography.ashish-pragya.com
 
PicPocket said:
meland said:
Mike Ca said:
I forgot to mention professional landscape shooters, who definitely do want more megapixels. They are not happy about the 5D III.
Click to expand...
How many professional landscape photographers are there in the world? Any idea?
Click to expand...
2,324,174
and so?
Click to expand...
And 82.7% of statistics are made up.

My question was to attempt to determine if Landscape Photographers are a big enough market segment to really be of interest to Canon?
 
sorry ,98% of banding is caused by people trying to perform miracles in the post processes,not the other way round like you mentioned, it is usually caused by under exposure in the first place.like all good photographers ,we should think before we shoot.
 
Good observations. The pros who grind it out day after day tend to view hardware as TOOLS, and they tend to use the tools they NEED rather than the ones they merely WANT. For many amateurs, the pursuit, however, is often more of the thrill, rather than the actual capture. Hence the endless duck "portraits" made with the every piece of latest-greatest gear that comes out which we continue to month after month in these forums.

Some people around here are going to actually take OFFENSE to your post. But, as you pointed out, there is nothing to offend... you merely related an OBSERVATION. But that doesn't keep some folks from being threatened by what they might perceive as an attack upon their desires. Just basic human nature. We do occasionally see some nice photography in these forums, but by and large, I don't often see photography in which the hardware itself is still the limitation. Those days are long over for now. Based on many of the complaints around here, however, you'd think these forums were populated by titans frustrated with having to use the tools of mere mortals. Banding, poor high ISO performance, crummy AF, low fps, silver buttons instead of black... makes me wonder how anyone EVER took a decent photograph way back when with a lousy D30.
Benjamin Stephens said:
I got the chance to help a friend tonight that shoot's NBA. It was great...running cards and copying files...looking how remotes were setup, strobes. For an amateur it was a great experience.

The really funny thing was the equipment..1D2n, 1D3's, 100-400 lenses, and then a few 5D2's and 1D4's but really....no one was griping about banding...or low MP, the lack of USB3 or a popup flash.

These people were professionals and they were making money at this....it was not just a hobby. That being said I did hear some comments about looking forward to the AF performance of the 5D3 and the 6 FPS being a great addition.

Just an observation.....and maybe a thought that there are just a lot of geek heads out there.....
Click to expand...
 
meland said:
My question was to attempt to determine if Landscape Photographers are a big enough market segment to really be of interest to Canon?
Click to expand...
fair enough. now let's say it's landscape photographers + all the non-professional photographers who look to buy 5D type cameras but want more MP?

these days, mid tier is bought by non-professionals more than professionals. the rebel effect has climbed up just as the manufacturers intended, and now they have to cater to people who make them the money

--
PicPocket
http://photography.ashish-pragya.com
 
curlyone said:
sorry ,98% of banding is caused by people trying to perform miracles in the post processes,not the other way round like you mentioned, it is usually caused by under exposure in the first place.like all good photographers ,we should think before we shoot.
Click to expand...
I said quite a few things there, but you seem to be stuck on banding for some reason. Is there an irony here?

I have never worried about banding myself (and many other things too). But its good to know that some cameras perform better than others even in extreme circumstances
and of course, we all can think. more so, independently

--
PicPocket
http://photography.ashish-pragya.com
 
For the most part this is a great thread....not near as condemning and smart ass as so many others....

When the professionals are taking pictures using equipment that is years old then I think maybe I don't need the "latest" BUT BUT BUT

I am a geek and I love geek things....there are many things about the Canon 5dMKIII that far surpass my 1DsII. They would really help in the things I like to photograph. Please understand that I am not trying to convince a landscape photographer that a 5DMKIII is not for them....if I felt that way I would go to what was..

THanks for the good conversation and the lack of "fighting" we all love to shoot but bad mouthing is a trend that the internet had made popular and it's sort of getting old. Great camera conversation is what I would really enjoy!

Thanks!
 
PicPocket said:
meland said:
My question was to attempt to determine if Landscape Photographers are a big enough market segment to really be of interest to Canon?
Click to expand...
fair enough. now let's say it's landscape photographers + all the non-professional photographers who look to buy 5D type cameras but want more MP?

these days, mid tier is bought by non-professionals more than professionals. the rebel effect has climbed up just as the manufacturers intended, and now they have to cater to people who make them the money

--
PicPocket
http://photography.ashish-pragya.com
Click to expand...
I think that's why they're repositioning the 5D3 as ABOVE mid tier... back into the high tier.
 
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