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The A57 will be the low resolution SLT camera many have been asking for...

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It all rather begs the question carl, if this is so boring for you why do bother posting in the thread?

BTW the point about printing you might like to dismiss lightly but it actually is a fundamental point when discussing noise issues. That's why I like the imaging resource reviews they actually include an assessment of a maximum print size as a function of iso for the reviewed cameras.

PS. Possum? wtf?

--
IQ is not judged exclusively by high iso noise performance
 
Frenske said:
Very odd! From the very same DPR dynamic range comparison graphs, I conclude that the NEX 5N has 1EV more headroom in the highlights. I admit that probably partially of that (0.5EV) might be due to lack of mirror in the camera.
Click to expand...
Actually when I look at DPR's graphs, which are rather crude btw, the A77 DR graph at iso100 looks pretty much the same as the NEX5N.

You don't understand how DR works. The DPR graphs are based on default settings. DR is a measure from the lowest to the highest and is expressed as an EV reading from minimum to maximum. This can be adjusted from the dark end to the highlight end in totality by adjusting EV in a + to - direction.
Frenske said:
DxOMark also gives the NEX 5N better scores regarding DR.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. The A77 scores 13.2 while the NEX 5N scores 12.7. That's an insignificant difference in the real world but the A77 scores better.

--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
 
tbcass said:
I think you may be a little too hung up on IQ and not enough on the camera as a whole.
Click to expand...
I would add: Many seems to be hung up on digital noise rather than all aspects of IQ.
 
....

IMHO the comparison ( as far as image IQ, noise at highISO ) is straightfoward: just compare the A55 and A65! Basically, the A57 seems to be a lower cost A65: same A65 body with a "conventional" EVF ( LCD ), same AF system, and an A55 16MP image sensor. It may be a very good seller since some flaws of the A55 like the too small size for handling are addressed plus other improved features.

Great kuddos for Sony showing that it's listening to many of theyr customers who have been asking for that!!

... Lucas
--
Always having fun with photography ...

http://www.lucaspix.smugmug.com/

 
Nordstjernen said:
tbcass said:
I think you may be a little too hung up on IQ and not enough on the camera as a whole.
Click to expand...
I would add: Many seems to be hung up on digital noise rather than all aspects of IQ.
Click to expand...
Not just that, there's also the ease and facility with which you can get the most out of your camera. The whole point of an A77 type body is that it's packed with features which help get the right exposure, focus and composition in the real world, not just studio tests.

Nevertheless, I remember very well how many used the 'if only the a77 used the 5n sensor' line when the A77 was released, and it will be interesting to see the veracity of that idea once the a57 is out.

--
IQ is not judged exclusively by high iso noise performance
 
mike_2008 said:
Nevertheless, I remember very well how many used the 'if only the a77 used the 5n sensor' line when the A77 was released, and it will be interesting to see the veracity of that idea once the a57 is out.
Click to expand...
Or you could hope for a miracle! ;-)
 
Sounds like "too little, too late syndrome" if you ask me. Who's gonna go out and buy it when you were forced into buying the one you have now. And now they want to give you the one you wanted in the first place so you can sell what you bought and buy again? And it still won't be the size body some wanted as in the size of the A-77. Why even bother now? Actually, I think the A-99 is making up to be the same thing. But this is just one person's opinion. :-) Good luck all interested parties! :-)
--
Glenn

I'm kinda partial to video, but I'm hangin!
 
A57 sounds like a model year tweak of the A55. I know SAR claims it may resemble a baby A65 in some way ... Sony might be repositioning it slightly with a feature or two ... but basically it's the 2012 A55.
  • Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
tbcass said:
Frenske said:
Very odd! From the very same DPR dynamic range comparison graphs, I conclude that the NEX 5N has 1EV more headroom in the highlights. I admit that probably partially of that (0.5EV) might be due to lack of mirror in the camera.
Click to expand...
Actually when I look at DPR's graphs, which are rather crude btw, the A77 DR graph at iso100 looks pretty much the same as the NEX5N.

You don't understand how DR works. The DPR graphs are based on default settings. DR is a measure from the lowest to the highest and is expressed as an EV reading from minimum to maximum. This can be adjusted from the dark end to the highlight end in totality by adjusting EV in a + to - direction.
tbcass said:
DxOMark also gives the NEX 5N better scores regarding DR.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. The A77 scores 13.2 while the NEX 5N scores 12.7. That's an insignificant difference in the real world but the A77 scores better.
Click to expand...
I spend too many years in college; I can perfectly read a graph. Thank you. We were discussing higher ISO effects on the performance so referring to dynamic ranges at lowest ISO is not really relevant. But I agree with you the differences are not that large (maybe even within the error) and in the real world it is hardly noticeable.

All I wanted to point out that those pixel peekers should look not only at noise levels only but also the dynamic range.
 
Dennis said:
A57 sounds like a model year tweak of the A55. I know SAR claims it may resemble a baby A65 in some way ... Sony might be repositioning it slightly with a feature or two ... but basically it's the 2012 A55.
Click to expand...
....
If it's to be the new entry-level for Sony, it's raising the bar!
Looks like an excellent option to face C & N, depending on the price!

... Lucas
--
Always having fun with photography ...

http://www.lucaspix.smugmug.com/

 
No point in comparing the (existing) a77 and the (rumored) a57 as
  • the a57 does not exist yet
and, more importantly,
  • the a57 is rumored to come in the shape of the a65 with the 1st gen EVF - sans OLED :-(
Should Sony ever put their latest 16 MP APS-C sensor into an a77 body, with its two control wheels, more flexible back LCD, OLED EVF, AF Micro Adjust, VGrip connections and all the other differentiators to the a65, then that camera would be something folks including myself asked for - for reasons way beyond noise levels.

Will that ever happen? Only time will tell.
 
Lucas_ said:
....

IMHO the comparison ( as far as image IQ, noise at highISO ) is straightfoward: just compare the A55 and A65! Basically, the A57 seems to be a lower cost A65: same A65 body with a "conventional" EVF ( LCD ), same AF system, and an A55 16MP image sensor. It may be a very good seller since some flaws of the A55 like the too small size for handling are addressed plus other improved features.

Great kuddos for Sony showing that it's listening to many of theyr customers who have been asking for that!!

... Lucas
--
Always having fun with photography ...

http://www.lucaspix.smugmug.com/

Click to expand...
Sure, people in Japan are crying for an A65 sized A55 body. lol
 
Ralf Bliesener said:
Should Sony ever put their latest 16 MP APS-C sensor into an a77 body, with its two control wheels, more flexible back LCD, OLED EVF, AF Micro Adjust, VGrip connections and all the other differentiators to the a65, then that camera would be something folks including myself asked for - for reasons way beyond noise levels.
Click to expand...
Yes, i can see why you'd like to try to save face by pretending now that all this debate driven by the low MP enthusiasts is not about noise, but guess what? It is. That's not my choice, and I strongly disagree with it, but there have been and continue to be a large number of posts driven by the 16MP > 24MP meme. This A57 gives us the chance to evaluate that in terms of studio tests of IQ. If that doesn't show any profound difference between the sensors then the debate is resolved.

At that point anyone who posts comments like yours above just deserves the title 'lazy', as they can't be arsed to switch to a lower MP jpeg or process raw properly.

BTW, what exactly is the jaw-droppingly awful aspect of the 24MP sensor (apart from the terrible, terrible noise of course) which makes it impossible for someone of your delicate disposition to use?

--
IQ is not judged exclusively by high iso noise performance
 
Lucas_ said:
Dennis said:
A57 sounds like a model year tweak of the A55. I know SAR claims it may resemble a baby A65 in some way ... Sony might be repositioning it slightly with a feature or two ... but basically it's the 2012 A55.
Click to expand...
....
If it's to be the new entry-level for Sony, it's raising the bar!
Looks like an excellent option to face C & N, depending on the price!
Click to expand...
Looks like $699, not too bad. Half that of the A77, but quite a lot of the functionality.

--
IQ is not judged exclusively by high iso noise performance
 
mike_2008 said:
Nevertheless, I remember very well how many used the 'if only the a77 used the 5n sensor' line when the A77 was released, and it will be interesting to see the veracity of that idea once the a57 is out.
Click to expand...
I still don't think you will get your answer since apparently the A57 will be based on the A65 and not an A77 body.

--
Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/
 
mike_2008 said:
Ralf Bliesener said:
Should Sony ever put their latest 16 MP APS-C sensor into an a77 body, with its two control wheels, more flexible back LCD, OLED EVF, AF Micro Adjust, VGrip connections and all the other differentiators to the a65, then that camera would be something folks including myself asked for - for reasons way beyond noise levels.
Click to expand...
Yes, i can see why you'd like to try to save face by pretending now that all this debate driven by the low MP enthusiasts is not about noise, but guess what? It is. That's not my choice, and I strongly disagree with it, but there have been and continue to be a large number of posts driven by the 16MP > 24MP meme. This A57 gives us the chance to evaluate that in terms of studio tests of IQ. If that doesn't show any profound difference between the sensors then the debate is resolved.

At that point anyone who posts comments like yours above just deserves the title 'lazy', as they can't be arsed to switch to a lower MP jpeg or process raw properly.

BTW, what exactly is the jaw-droppingly awful aspect of the 24MP sensor (apart from the terrible, terrible noise of course) which makes it impossible for someone of your delicate disposition to use?
Click to expand...
I have made my analysis of the noise issue available to the forum quite some time ago - using the RAW files from DPreview:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=39829871
and shared my (rather positive) hands-on impression on the a77 here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=39959609

I happily share them again here for further factual discussion without the personal "touch" you attempted to introduce.
 
Ralf Bliesener wrote:

Yes, thanks ralf, however the comment which intrigued me in your post above was this:
Ralf B said:
that camera would be something folks including myself asked for - for reasons way beyond noise levels.
Click to expand...
So I'm a little confused; you say you want the 16MP sensor in an A77 body "for reasons way beyond noise levels", what are those reasons, exactly?

--
IQ is not judged exclusively by high iso noise performance
 
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