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Experts on focus issues Please SPEAK UP!!!!

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Best viewed at larger size here:
http://www.pbase.com/inigmntoya/spot_focus

All images straight out of the camera at F2.8, 1/200, flash on. Last shot has +2.0 flash compensation, all others at the default of 0.0.
  1. 1 iESP, shutter half pressed when image composed as seen:
http://www.pbase.com/image/10001220


  1. 2 SPOT, shutter half-pressed when image composed as seen:
http://www.pbase.com/image/10001221


  1. 3 SPOT, shutter half-pressed with "[ ]" brackets centered on the left-most cup:
http://www.pbase.com/image/10001222


  1. 4 SPOT, shutter half-pressed with "[ ]" brackets centered on right-most cup:
http://www.pbase.com/image/10001223


  1. 5 SPOT, shutter half-pressed with "[ ]" brackets centered on left-most cup, with +2.0 flash compensation. (Compare with #3 above in terms of amount of flash reaching the left cup):
http://www.pbase.com/image/10001224

 
This thread now has me hanging for the final outcome!

My UZi and C3000 both default to the silly 1/30 and wide-open. I hate it.
(firmware -77)

Ricky
Bill Huber said:
Jim, when I popup the flash my UZI goes to f 2.8 at 1/60. This is
in all modes. This is with software 73.

--
Bill Huber, Fort Worth, Tx
Oly C2100 - FL-40 Flash - B-Macro
UZI, http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber
Click to expand...
--
R. Slaughter
'DEMOCRACY' is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
'LIBERTY' is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.

C+54.772256^2Z

http://www.pbase.com/nufsed/galleries
 
R. Slaughter said:
Now I'm getting confused... the AF lamp is on (you can see it
actually shining on her face (?) and the camera is still hunting
for focus while not in macro mode? If yes, try this..turn off all
the lights to see if this helps.
Click to expand...
Low light or no light, it hunts for focus...
R. Slaughter said:
Try shooting from four feet. Then try shooting a target with a lot
of contrast...dark picture frame, edge of a sheet of paper on a
dark background.
Click to expand...
The contrast thing i understand completely, but apparently that is part of how picky this camera really is. It will focus on something with lots of contrast, but not on people that well. This is my second C5050 in three weeks. Exchanged the other one just to see if it was a glitch.
R. Slaughter said:
What I'm shooting for here is to determine first, if there may be
an actual mechanical problem with the camera...will not focus
anywhere on anything?.... or do we just need to learn how picky it
is?
Click to expand...
That is exactly the issue. How picky the focus mechanisms are..
R. Slaughter said:
The camera requires contrast to focus....try focusing on a plain
colored wall, and it wont work...stick a piece of colored tape on
the wall and it will.

The problem with the focus's need for contrast is made worse in low
light.
Just fer grins... have your daughter hold a small book or other
small contrastingly colored object next to her face, lets see if it
will focus now.
Click to expand...
She is 10 weeks old, but i did have my wife hold a book. The book gets into focus better than her face...
R. Slaughter said:
daryl.com said:
R. Slaughter said:
Daryl: Lets leave Macro out of this. Listen, I want you to be happy
with the camera, and i'd like to help, if possible.
Click to expand...
OK
R. Slaughter said:
Macro is for use at something like three feet or less.

Lets stick with non-macro for now.

First: is the AF illuminator ON? If not, turn it on in the menu.
Click to expand...
Yes, it has been on the whole time.
R. Slaughter said:
When half-pressing the shutter, the light should come on,
illuminating your daughter, if not, try turning off some of the
lights in the room until its dark enough for the lamp to light. Try
a few shots this way and try both spot and esp.
Click to expand...
I have tried both ways, spot and iESP, and I cant tell any
difference in the way the camera focuses. It goes crazy when
trying to get focus on my daughter's face. I have put in fresh
batteries and everything.....

Next?

--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Was shooting with an Olympus C4040. Had to make
the move to the C5050, and glad I did.
Click to expand...
--
R. Slaughter
'DEMOCRACY' is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
'LIBERTY' is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.

C+54.772256^2Z

http://www.pbase.com/nufsed/galleries
Click to expand...
--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Was shooting with an Olympus C4040. Had to make
the move to the C5050, and glad I did.
 
My frist look was with a little zoom on.

If the lens is all the way WA then it will default to 1/30 but if it is put any zoom on it it will got to 1/60 and change as you zoom more. At full zoom it will default to f 3.5 at 1/200.

--
Bill Huber, Fort Worth, Tx
Oly C2100 - FL-40 Flash - B-Macro
UZI, http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber
 
OK! Now we know that it's extremely demanding as to contrast in the subject.

Here's a start at a work-around: using aperature or manual mode, set the fstop to f5.6 or so to get a more forgiving DOF. Now try the book-trick just as it was done a bit ago... see if your daughter is now acceptably focused as well as the book.

You can now do some trials with this, with the idea being: pick a spot or feature near your intended subject...half-press then move the camera's aimpoint back to the subject and finish pressing the shutter.

IOW: Don't aim at your daughter's face, aim at the dge of her blanket, basinette, or anything else > > > at the same distance

I know that this is a work-around... and there may be something else we can do... but try this... let us know
daryl.com said:
R. Slaughter said:
Now I'm getting confused... the AF lamp is on (you can see it
actually shining on her face (?) and the camera is still hunting
for focus while not in macro mode? If yes, try this..turn off all
the lights to see if this helps.
Click to expand...
Low light or no light, it hunts for focus...
daryl.com said:
Try shooting from four feet. Then try shooting a target with a lot
of contrast...dark picture frame, edge of a sheet of paper on a
dark background.
Click to expand...
The contrast thing i understand completely, but apparently that is
part of how picky this camera really is. It will focus on
something with lots of contrast, but not on people that well. This
is my second C5050 in three weeks. Exchanged the other one just to
see if it was a glitch.
daryl.com said:
What I'm shooting for here is to determine first, if there may be
an actual mechanical problem with the camera...will not focus
anywhere on anything?.... or do we just need to learn how picky it
is?
Click to expand...
That is exactly the issue. How picky the focus mechanisms are..
daryl.com said:
The camera requires contrast to focus....try focusing on a plain
colored wall, and it wont work...stick a piece of colored tape on
the wall and it will.

The problem with the focus's need for contrast is made worse in low
light.
Just fer grins... have your daughter hold a small book or other
small contrastingly colored object next to her face, lets see if it
will focus now.
Click to expand...
She is 10 weeks old, but i did have my wife hold a book. The book
gets into focus better than her face...
daryl.com said:
daryl.com said:
R. Slaughter said:
Daryl: Lets leave Macro out of this. Listen, I want you to be happy
with the camera, and i'd like to help, if possible.
Click to expand...
OK
daryl.com said:
Macro is for use at something like three feet or less.

Lets stick with non-macro for now.

First: is the AF illuminator ON? If not, turn it on in the menu.
Click to expand...
Yes, it has been on the whole time.
daryl.com said:
When half-pressing the shutter, the light should come on,
illuminating your daughter, if not, try turning off some of the
lights in the room until its dark enough for the lamp to light. Try
a few shots this way and try both spot and esp.
Click to expand...
I have tried both ways, spot and iESP, and I cant tell any
difference in the way the camera focuses. It goes crazy when
trying to get focus on my daughter's face. I have put in fresh
batteries and everything.....

Next?

--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Was shooting with an Olympus C4040. Had to make
the move to the C5050, and glad I did.
Click to expand...
--
R. Slaughter
'DEMOCRACY' is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
'LIBERTY' is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.

C+54.772256^2Z

http://www.pbase.com/nufsed/galleries
Click to expand...
--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Was shooting with an Olympus C4040. Had to make
the move to the C5050, and glad I did.
Click to expand...
--
R. Slaughter
'DEMOCRACY' is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
'LIBERTY' is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.

C+54.772256^2Z

http://www.pbase.com/nufsed/galleries
 
Thought you were asking about the example shots I posted.

I didn't pay much attention to zoom level on the defaults with the flash up. I would assume the F2.8 would switch to F3.2, the F3.5 as I zoomed.
 
R. Slaughter said:
OK! Now we know that it's extremely demanding as to contrast in the
subject.
Here's a start at a work-around: using aperature or manual mode,
set the fstop to f5.6 or so to get a more forgiving DOF. Now try
the book-trick just as it was done a bit ago... see if your
daughter is now acceptably focused as well as the book.
You can now do some trials with this, with the idea being: pick a
spot or feature near your intended subject...half-press then move
the camera's aimpoint back to the subject and finish pressing the
shutter.
IOW: Don't aim at your daughter's face, aim at the dge of her
blanket, basinette, or anything else > > > at the same distance
half-press, then aim at her face... you have the focus locked as
long as you dont release the buton...then snap the pic as you
originally intended.
Click to expand...
I understand that concept but it hasnt worked all that well in the past because my camera defaults to the f2.8 thus making the area behind or in front of her out of focus...the aperature priority mode should handle this better, correct?
R. Slaughter said:
I know that this is a work-around... and there may be something
else we can do... but try this... let us know
daryl.com said:
R. Slaughter said:
Now I'm getting confused... the AF lamp is on (you can see it
actually shining on her face (?) and the camera is still hunting
for focus while not in macro mode? If yes, try this..turn off all
the lights to see if this helps.
Click to expand...
Low light or no light, it hunts for focus...
R. Slaughter said:
Try shooting from four feet. Then try shooting a target with a lot
of contrast...dark picture frame, edge of a sheet of paper on a
dark background.
Click to expand...
The contrast thing i understand completely, but apparently that is
part of how picky this camera really is. It will focus on
something with lots of contrast, but not on people that well. This
is my second C5050 in three weeks. Exchanged the other one just to
see if it was a glitch.
R. Slaughter said:
What I'm shooting for here is to determine first, if there may be
an actual mechanical problem with the camera...will not focus
anywhere on anything?.... or do we just need to learn how picky it
is?
Click to expand...
That is exactly the issue. How picky the focus mechanisms are..
R. Slaughter said:
The camera requires contrast to focus....try focusing on a plain
colored wall, and it wont work...stick a piece of colored tape on
the wall and it will.

The problem with the focus's need for contrast is made worse in low
light.
Just fer grins... have your daughter hold a small book or other
small contrastingly colored object next to her face, lets see if it
will focus now.
Click to expand...
She is 10 weeks old, but i did have my wife hold a book. The book
gets into focus better than her face...
R. Slaughter said:
daryl.com said:
R. Slaughter said:
Daryl: Lets leave Macro out of this. Listen, I want you to be happy
with the camera, and i'd like to help, if possible.
Click to expand...
OK
R. Slaughter said:
Macro is for use at something like three feet or less.

Lets stick with non-macro for now.

First: is the AF illuminator ON? If not, turn it on in the menu.
Click to expand...
Yes, it has been on the whole time.
R. Slaughter said:
When half-pressing the shutter, the light should come on,
illuminating your daughter, if not, try turning off some of the
lights in the room until its dark enough for the lamp to light. Try
a few shots this way and try both spot and esp.
Click to expand...
I have tried both ways, spot and iESP, and I cant tell any
difference in the way the camera focuses. It goes crazy when
trying to get focus on my daughter's face. I have put in fresh
batteries and everything.....

Next?

--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Was shooting with an Olympus C4040. Had to make
the move to the C5050, and glad I did.
Click to expand...
--
R. Slaughter
'DEMOCRACY' is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
'LIBERTY' is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.

C+54.772256^2Z

http://www.pbase.com/nufsed/galleries
Click to expand...
--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Was shooting with an Olympus C4040. Had to make
the move to the C5050, and glad I did.
Click to expand...
--
R. Slaughter
'DEMOCRACY' is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
'LIBERTY' is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.

C+54.772256^2Z

http://www.pbase.com/nufsed/galleries
Click to expand...
--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Was shooting with an Olympus C4040. Had to make
the move to the C5050, and glad I did.
 
You're right. I'm getting the same as you now.
I wonder what the logic behind that is?
Bill Huber said:
My frist look was with a little zoom on.

If the lens is all the way WA then it will default to 1/30 but if
it is put any zoom on it it will got to 1/60 and change as you zoom
more. At full zoom it will default to f 3.5 at 1/200.

--
Bill Huber, Fort Worth, Tx
Oly C2100 - FL-40 Flash - B-Macro
UZI, http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber
Click to expand...
 
i am not an expert but here it looks like the camera focused on the wall at the back. Maybe you should use spot focusing? The speed was fast enough so it's probably just focusing at the wrong place.

http://www.pbase.com/image/9970392

Here it's sharp in front but the guy behind is blurred, this is normal because you used a large aperture and probably your maximum zoom, this makes the depth of field rally narrow..great if you have only one person but if you want to catch everything in focus, try using the wide angle and F6 or F8 if possible to make the dept of field larger and have more things in focus.

http://www.pbase.com/image/9970594

If you can use less zoom and not use the F2.8 or F1.8, that will help. It will make you loose a bit of light but will gain in depth of field. with the flash the light loss should not be a problem.
daryl.com said:
Ok, I am hoping that what is happening here is user error. I took
about 100 pics last night at our New Year's Eve party. Half of
them had to be deleted for out of focus reasons. I have tried spot
focus and I have tried iESP and neither seem to cut it. What is
the deal when the 1.8 lens is supposed to be good for low light
pics? Does that mean that it allows more light into the lens to
make the picture look better and if so, does it help in anyway with
focusing(obviously not in my case). I have put 4 pictures in my
pbase gallery under "Focus Issues" and would appreciate someone
helping me out with this. I love the C5050, and as I said, I hope
this is simply something little that I am missing. Please take a
look at the pictures and try to give me some advice. Thanks.

http://www.pbase.com/daryl

--
http://www.daryl.com/2002 - photo calendar
http://www.pbase.com/daryl - pbase supporter

Was shooting with an Olympus C4040. Had to make
the move to the C5050, and glad I did.
Click to expand...
--
Daniella
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=26918
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C700 FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

c700uz, Dimage 7, Tcon14, C210, Cokin 173, Graduated DN, Hoya red Intensifier, Hoya R72 infrared.
 
daryl.com said:
I understand that concept but it hasnt worked all that well in the
past because my camera defaults to the f2.8 thus making the area
behind or in front of her out of focus...the aperature priority
mode should handle this better, correct?
Click to expand...
Yes, it should, if you're using a higher F-stop. Also, when doing the "aim and recompose" thing, use SPOT focus and get your target in the "[ ]" cross-hairs. See my examples posted below.
 
Bill Huber,

I have the same firmware: 352 73.

Perhaps it has to do with your location. At my desk I get the 2.8 at 1/30, but in my kitchen I get the 2.8 at 1/60.

Does your defaults change depending on the ambient lighting?

Cheers,

jim
 
Daryl:

Do this: select Manual mode, set the shutter to 1/100 and the aperature to f5.6.

Try this with the flash on auto and the focus on ESP.

Now do the book test again.

Next, do the book test with the book a little further from her face (closer to the camera, maybe a foot) take the pic to see how much DOF is improving your focus range.
Ricky

R. Slaughter
'DEMOCRACY' is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
'LIBERTY' is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.

C+54.772256^2Z

http://www.pbase.com/nufsed/galleries
 
Inigo,

Very good examples! And another compelling reason to LEARN to use spot focusing for your default setting. This level of control over the image is not possible using iESP focusing! Now, if Olympus could teach their cameras ESP, maybe the camera would "know" what we wanted in sharp focus and make the necessary adjustments? Maybe instead of ESP, Olympus should develop a PHL focus system. In this system, the camera makes a quick call to the Psychic Hot Line do determine exactly what to focus upon.

Hmmm, back to the drawing board!

jim
 
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