First major D60 disappointment...[imgs]

Very nice. That 50 mm 1.8 lens comes in handy and is a bargain at about $75.

...You didn't waste any film!

Laurie Sokoloff said:

Took my godchild to the National Aquarium here in Baltimore
yesterday. Talk about your lowlight situation! I had to guess at
focusing almost all day. I got lucky a few times, but no shots are
even just good, and it really was just luck.

I really hate to spend the money - and I don't go to the Aquarium
that often - but I'm beginning to sense a 1D or 1Ds may be
somewhere in my future... (That's the sound of my wallet whining
and begging for mercy!) I do like photographing indoors though -
but admit the focusing has not been a porblem - until yesterday.

Do the 1D and 1Ds really do THAT much better in this kind of a
situation? I think what frustrated me most of all was not being
able to see well enough to focus manually. Bummer!

--
Best,
Laurie

Click to expand...

Hello Laurie,

Your dissapointment using your D60 at its functional limits reveals a more important 'limitation' of your present skills a a photographer.
With camera in hand, you are ready to capture the moment.

The 'limitation' I respectfully suggest to you is that of your letting the camera control you and your shooting instead of you using the camera, whatever the conditions, (well almost), to capture the moment.

I once shot an entire elementary basketball game with my manual Bronica sq medium format camera, when my Elan IIE went dead.
95 percent of my shots were in focus, I pre-focused everything.

Basket jumps, pre-focused. What I pre-focused on were other objects at the same distance.

In an aquarium you have a set distance to work in. From where you are standing see if there are signs, lit exits, those standing near you, etc., which are at the same distance as the fish in the tank, that you could focus on manually and then turn to your subject for the shot.

A rubber lens hood is very useful in addition to the previous posts to your question.

The D60 does for me what the 1d can't at my price level. I hope you find this useful.
Nicholas http://www.nickphoto123.com

--
The joy of photography is being there when you take the picture.

dear Laurie,

Can you five us a clue to the settings you used taking these pictures?

Ron

Laurie Sokoloff said:

Do the 1D and 1Ds really do THAT much better in this kind of a
situation? I think what frustrated me most of all was not being
able to see well enough to focus manually. Bummer!

Click to expand...

Better than you can even imagine. I shot my first wedding yesterday with the D1s and I was amazed. I was able to get things I have never gotten before. From the church balcony I shot the bride and the groom walking up the aisle with a 135 at F2 it tracked them for six shots and all but one was dead on. This is at a low light level (800 ISO, f2, 1/60). The D60 would have just hunted.

During the reception it was getting focus in a nearly dark room of fast dancing action. In the past, with the D60, and other film cameras, I have always ended up using the distance scale and zone focusing.

I expected the image quailty, which is great, but I am really astounded that it's really the best SLR I've ever owned in focus speed and stability. Now I know why everyone speaks so highly of the EOS 1D.

Tom
--
http://www.kachadurian.com

but contrary to a few posters in the past, I have not been able to trip mine up. I don't typically shoot wide open, but more often in Av mode at around F4-F8 depending on the desired depth of field. If this bothers you then indeed I strongly feel that the 1 Series will solve your problems. Mine locks focus in next to NO light even with the much berated 28-135IS. With all m L's it's a "no brainer". Go for it..........

Laurie Sokoloff said:

Took my godchild to the National Aquarium here in Baltimore
yesterday. Talk about your lowlight situation! I had to guess at
focusing almost all day. I got lucky a few times, but no shots are
even just good, and it really was just luck.

I really hate to spend the money - and I don't go to the Aquarium
that often - but I'm beginning to sense a 1D or 1Ds may be
somewhere in my future... (That's the sound of my wallet whining
and begging for mercy!) I do like photographing indoors though -
but admit the focusing has not been a porblem - until yesterday.

Do the 1D and 1Ds really do THAT much better in this kind of a
situation? I think what frustrated me most of all was not being
able to see well enough to focus manually. Bummer!

--
Best,
Laurie

Click to expand...

Agreed. Quite a deal.
Now if they could give it a bigger focusing ring...then it would be great!

Juli Valley said:

Very nice. That 50 mm 1.8 lens comes in handy and is a bargain at
about $75.

Click to expand...

Peter Phan said:

EX flashes project a pattern of red lines using their near-infrared
focus assist light. The camera uses that pattern to focus off of.
That's why you can literally focus off of a blank wall in complete
darkness with the EX's focus assist light. (In darkness you'll see
the pattern of red lines.) But the problem that you may find with
using the EX flash focus assist in an aquarium situation is that
the focus assist beam will be projected onto the thick aquarium
glass, and that is were the camera will focus-- on the aquarium
glass. It is highly unlikely that the focus assist beam will help
you focus on the fish because in order to do so the pattern has to
show up on said fish. But in order to do so, the pattern must
first penetrate the thick glass without losing much intensity or
focus, then not lose any more intensity or focus as it travels
throught the water. Most likely, the glass and the water will
present too much of an obstruction for the focus assist light,
causing it to scatter too much to be effective. But there's only
one way to find out for sure. Try it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this very helpful explanation. Others have come to the same logical conclusion, but it always helps me further to understand WHY. Or "why not", in this case.[g] But I will try again, and report back as well. Thanks again.

--
Best,
Laurie

Nicholas said:

Hello Laurie,

Your dissapointment using your D60 at its functional limits reveals
a more important 'limitation' of your present skills a a
photographer.
With camera in hand, you are ready to capture the moment.
The 'limitation' I respectfully suggest to you is that of your
letting the camera control you and your shooting instead of you
using the camera, whatever the conditions, (well almost), to
capture the moment.

I once shot an entire elementary basketball game with my manual
Bronica sq medium format camera, when my Elan IIE went dead.
95 percent of my shots were in focus, I pre-focused everything.
Basket jumps, pre-focused. What I pre-focused on were other objects
at the same distance.
In an aquarium you have a set distance to work in. From where you
are standing see if there are signs, lit exits, those standing near
you, etc., which are at the same distance as the fish in the
tank, that you could focus on manually and then turn to your
subject for the shot.
A rubber lens hood is very useful in addition to the previous posts
to your question.

The D60 does for me what the 1d can't at my price level. I hope you
find this useful.
Nicholas http://www.nickphoto123.com

Click to expand...

Yes, very helpful actually. Focusing on something of equal distance . . . my honest reply is, DUH, why didn't I think of that?! At least that would have been helpful with relatively predictable subjects. Thanks Nicholas - something else for me to try.

--
Best,
Laurie

Keiron O'Mahoney said:

Hiya,

I had the same scenario as you, well almost, I paid a special visit
to our local aquarium after purchasing a 50mm 1.8 especially. I
knew that I was going to have to shoot using ambient light as they
wouldn't be too happy about me using flash.

So, have a look here and see what you think, I threw a lot more
away than I kept I can tell you but some I was very pleased with.

http://www.athousandwords.org.uk/blueplanet/index.htm

The problems I found was shutter speed rather than focus speed, the
50mm 1.8 dealt with that admirably, okay there was some hunting in
some of the tanks but overall it did marvellously well. I shot at
iso800 (not sure how it got knocked off 1000!) and overexposed all
by 1/2 stop which was necessary after a first few test shots. The
only problem is that some of the fish swam faster than my shutter
speed and resulted in blurring.

So, give it another go, I'm going to, and judging by the lessons I
learned hopefully more will be better!

--
Cheers

Keiron

http://www.athousandwords.org.uk

Click to expand...

Greetings Keiron, and thanks for posting a reply and the photos. They are very good,several excellent. I can see some motion blur on some, but just a bit - and they are all clearly superior to what I was able to get yesterday. Oddly enough our Aquarium didn't seem to have a problem with flash. But I too will try again - thanks for the encouragement, AND the inspirational photos.

--
Best,
Laurie

Peter Phan said:

...You didn't waste any film!

Click to expand...

ROF,L! How true - with the money saved at this rate I can justify the purchase of a 1D in about 50 years. LOL

--
Best,
Laurie

Thomas Kachadurian said:

Laurie Sokoloff said:

Do the 1D and 1Ds really do THAT much better in this kind of a
situation? I think what frustrated me most of all was not being
able to see well enough to focus manually. Bummer!

Click to expand...

Better than you can even imagine. I shot my first wedding yesterday
with the D1s and I was amazed. I was able to get things I have
never gotten before. From the church balcony I shot the bride and
the groom walking up the aisle with a 135 at F2 it tracked them for
six shots and all but one was dead on. This is at a low light level
(800 ISO, f2, 1/60). The D60 would have just hunted.

During the reception it was getting focus in a nearly dark room of
fast dancing action. In the past, with the D60, and other film
cameras, I have always ended up using the distance scale and zone
focusing.

I expected the image quailty, which is great, but I am really
astounded that it's really the best SLR I've ever owned in focus
speed and stability. Now I know why everyone speaks so highly of
the EOS 1D.

Click to expand...

The ground must be level, as I'm drooling out of both sides of my mouth. Your words, while music to my ears, are poison to my checkbook.[g] Still, I'm giving it serious consideration. Actually, the weight of the 1D might be for me an even bigger obstacle than the price. But sometime soon I'll try to get my hands on one to see how it feels. And I'm properly prepared for the fact that I probably won't want to let go...

Thanks Tom - I know there's ample good reason why 1D owners wax poetic about their cameras.

--
Best,
Laurie

I liked Nicholas' suggestion that Laurie prefocus on something not inside the aquarium.

But, as you probably know water magnifies I believe 1.3 times. So I suspect, but don't know, that the manual focus may be confused.

You physics folks out there may be better able to tell what adjustment to make for prefocus through water.

This is my first time on a thread. VERY VERY INTERESTING.

I am currently using a 4 meg. Kodak camera. It has a lousy view finder and takes a long time to take a picure. But the quality of the result is really superb. Would a D60 take better pictures, or would it just have a better view finder, take faster picture, and allow me to use all my wonderful Minolta lenses?

I have losts of Minolta lenses that go with all of the Minolta bodies I have accumulated over the years. When is Minolta coming out with a professional digital SLR. Anyone hear anything.

All of you pros out there, thanks for listening!
[email protected]

Robert I. Rhodes

--
Robert I. Rhodes

Laurie,

While I dont have the only image to show for it when I last visited the Monterrey aquarium where they dont allow flash i did the following

1) Set manual focus to around 2-3 meters, given that aquarium glass is so thick and the water absorbs so much light i wasnt really worth that much trying to shoot farther back

2) fix the speed at 1/15 or 1/30 (I know that fast moving fish wont look nice, but I was trying to get a picture of something, not specific species)
3) stick my lens against the glass (this helps a lot with the camera shake )
4) ISO 800 (expensive film at that time )
5) Shoot like crazy

I got some vey nice pictures and a LOT of bad ones ...

At that time I was dreaming of buying a 1N ... i have a d60 and still dream of the 1Ds or whichever newest gadget is around.

Guillermo

Laurie Sokoloff said:

Took my godchild to the National Aquarium here in Baltimore
yesterday. Talk about your lowlight situation! I had to guess at
focusing almost all day. I got lucky a few times, but no shots are
even just good, and it really was just luck.

I really hate to spend the money - and I don't go to the Aquarium
that often - but I'm beginning to sense a 1D or 1Ds may be
somewhere in my future... (That's the sound of my wallet whining
and begging for mercy!) I do like photographing indoors though -
but admit the focusing has not been a porblem - until yesterday.

Do the 1D and 1Ds really do THAT much better in this kind of a
situation? I think what frustrated me most of all was not being
able to see well enough to focus manually. Bummer!

--
Best,
Laurie

Click to expand...

Lee Rothman said:

but contrary to a few posters in the past, I have not been able to
trip mine up. I don't typically shoot wide open, but more often in
Av mode at around F4-F8 depending on the desired depth of field. If
this bothers you then indeed I strongly feel that the 1 Series will
solve your problems. Mine locks focus in next to NO light even with
the much berated 28-135IS. With all m L's it's a "no brainer". Go
for it..........

Click to expand...

Hi Lee - Thanks for the above. But I'm a bit confused - is it the D60 you've not been able to trip up? Do you own and shoot with both the D60 and the 1D?? That's what it sounds like, just want to be sure.

If my assumption is correct, I can well understand - I've not had much of a problem either until yesterday. Occasionally my D60 will hunt back and forth, but I've never really minded switching to manual. I'm a professional musician and I do like photographing in concert halls - sometimes I'll miss a shot or two because of the low light, but that's been the worst that's happened. That's the photographing that I do most often, and it does occur to me that a 1D would very likely help with that too. Hmm, a lot to think about. I'm not about to do anything hasty, though. Researched and read about the D60 for months before deciding to buy . . . and that was "JUST" $2200. Ha! Isn't perspective a funny thing?!!

Thanks again-
Best,
Laurie

even the 1D or 1Ds will not always satisfy.

Its a fact of life that to everything there are always pros and cons. It much depends though on your eyes and how you look at it.

I am sure you would be much happier if you see the positive and not focus on the negative of the D60 - or do you like weaning? Your life will be happier if you can enjoy the positive aspects and just not bother too much on the negatives.......

Happy New Year and enjoy 2003.

Putting the camera against the glass also helps cut down on reflections, from the glass. Two other suggestions: Clean the glass at the point you are shooting through and shoot as high up on the glass as possible since typically the higher up the less scratches, blobs and other surface defects. (Young kids tend to leave losts of goo on the glass.)

Marcy

Guillermo Guemez said:

Laurie,

While I dont have the only image to show for it when I last visited
the Monterrey aquarium where they dont allow flash i did the
following

1) Set manual focus to around 2-3 meters, given that aquarium glass
is so thick and the water absorbs so much light i wasnt really
worth that much trying to shoot farther back
2) fix the speed at 1/15 or 1/30 (I know that fast moving fish wont
look nice, but I was trying to get a picture of something, not
specific species)
3) stick my lens against the glass (this helps a lot with the
camera shake )
4) ISO 800 (expensive film at that time )
5) Shoot like crazy

I got some vey nice pictures and a LOT of bad ones ...

At that time I was dreaming of buying a 1N ... i have a d60 and
still dream of the 1Ds or whichever newest gadget is around.

Click to expand...

...we have much in common![g] Fortunately, I don't end up buying everything I want. Way too expensive - but more importantly, I would think it would decrease my appreciation of the things I do decide to purchase. I do love to play and dream though!

Hi Guillermo, and thanks for your reply - and also for the good suggestions.

Since you are the second poster to remark on "no flash" rules at your local aquariums, I'm wondering if the National Aquarium doesn't also have such a rule. Maybe I just used my on-board flash out of ignorance and was lucky enough not to get caught?? Hmm, think I could get away with such "ignorance" a second time??[g]

I will try your technique when I go back - it sounds extremely logical and sensible to me. Thanks again.
--
Best,
Laurie

I wish it were still local, at that time i was living in Palo Alto so I mentioned the Monterrey Bay Aquarium, nowdays I am living in Mexico city ... way different in many ways.

let us know how your pictures turn out.

Guillermo

Laurie Sokoloff said:

Guillermo Guemez said:

Laurie,

While I dont have the only image to show for it when I last visited
the Monterrey aquarium where they dont allow flash i did the
following

1) Set manual focus to around 2-3 meters, given that aquarium glass
is so thick and the water absorbs so much light i wasnt really
worth that much trying to shoot farther back
2) fix the speed at 1/15 or 1/30 (I know that fast moving fish wont
look nice, but I was trying to get a picture of something, not
specific species)
3) stick my lens against the glass (this helps a lot with the
camera shake )
4) ISO 800 (expensive film at that time )
5) Shoot like crazy

I got some vey nice pictures and a LOT of bad ones ...

At that time I was dreaming of buying a 1N ... i have a d60 and
still dream of the 1Ds or whichever newest gadget is around.

Click to expand...

...we have much in common![g] Fortunately, I don't end up buying
everything I want. Way too expensive - but more importantly, I
would think it would decrease my appreciation of the things I do
decide to purchase. I do love to play and dream though!

Hi Guillermo, and thanks for your reply - and also for the good
suggestions.

Since you are the second poster to remark on "no flash" rules at
your local aquariums, I'm wondering if the National Aquarium
doesn't also have such a rule. Maybe I just used my on-board flash
out of ignorance and was lucky enough not to get caught?? Hmm,
think I could get away with such "ignorance" a second time??[g]

I will try your technique when I go back - it sounds extremely
logical and sensible to me. Thanks again.
--
Best,
Laurie

Click to expand...

MarcyS said:

Putting the camera against the glass also helps cut down on
reflections, from the glass. Two other suggestions: Clean the glass
at the point you are shooting through and shoot as high up on the
glass as possible since typically the higher up the less scratches,
blobs and other surface defects. (Young kids tend to leave losts of
goo on the glass.)

Click to expand...

Thanks Marcy - hadn't thought of the kiddie height & goo factor.
--
Best,
Laurie