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Pentax 645D vs D800 Image Quality
- Thread starter Kesha270057
- Start date
NhanPiano
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I already have a Pentax 645D, but plan on getting a D800E for on-location shoots. Best of both worlds woohoo! 
Actually, the D800E will be used for on-location shoots where its faster frame rate and autofocus will come in handy for action shots. The 645D still reins supreme in the studio. Its frame rate of 1fps is fine because I have to wait for the studio strobes to recycle anyway. Still waiting to try out the new Pentax 645 FA 90mm f/2.8 lens.
Ed
http://www.EdwardNguyenPhotography.com
Actually, the D800E will be used for on-location shoots where its faster frame rate and autofocus will come in handy for action shots. The 645D still reins supreme in the studio. Its frame rate of 1fps is fine because I have to wait for the studio strobes to recycle anyway. Still waiting to try out the new Pentax 645 FA 90mm f/2.8 lens.Ed
http://www.EdwardNguyenPhotography.com
Petroglyph
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1. I agree
2. I agree even though my CCD is a lowly D60, sorry CMOS users...oops I am one!
3. Measurebating doesn't pay your bills. Maybe different for camera company.
By the way CMOS is one year older tech than CCD, CMOS is just cheaper to make but who cares, right?
Cheers.
2. I agree even though my CCD is a lowly D60, sorry CMOS users...oops I am one!
3. Measurebating doesn't pay your bills. Maybe different for camera company.
By the way CMOS is one year older tech than CCD, CMOS is just cheaper to make but who cares, right?
Cheers.
Vast majority of pros will buy D800 over 645D. If someone gave me $12,000 and asked me to spend it, I would pick D800 over 645D. I would be able to buy more lenses, so it would be more bang for the money. Plus it's smaller, more flexible, better AF, faster, more fps.
As for pure IQ, I don't think anyone doubts that at least on Dxomark, D800 will score way higher than 645D (which scores same as K-5). I am predicting a score higher than 90.
As for sensor size, it's interesting that the same people who downplay FF sensor size advantage over APSC, make the point that 645D sensor is bigger, even though the sensor size difference between 645D and D800 is smaller than APSC and FF.
Funny that you missed that the link to photos clearly is Nikonrumour
And what's your point Mr. Obvious? Of course this will be true. The D800 is a general purpose pro body. The 645D is a special purpose pro body. Duh.
Apart from saying you belong to the general crowd, you're saying nothing new here. Oh by the way. I know someone would apply the same argument to say that a D7000 is a superior body to a 5D mk2.
Dxomark is a general purpose score. For "pure IQ", D800 is going to be smoked by any recent CCD sensor its size or bigger, at base ISO , the 645D is only one of them.
But I guess since you've failed to understand after so many posts, you'll continue to fail to understand this, too.
You're making this up. Nobody downplays FF advantage over APS-C. However, the 645D sensor's advantage over a 36x24 sensor is almost as large.
I dont know shooting hi-iso in daylight gives very different results from low light shooting, Manafacturers use it to con the pixel junkies like you.
Heres the k5 no noise reduction same processor as the link you referrenced
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Yes it good smokingg both the D700 and D800 examples you postrd.
No cheating but of no practicle use either.
Shot in daylight to saurate the pixels at max sv to limit sensor heating.
Its a complete con but as legit as dxo scores
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No cheating but of no practicle use either.
Shot in daylight to saurate the pixels at max sv to limit sensor heating.
Its a complete con but as legit as dxo scores
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Exactly what I'm trying to say, the whole idea of comparative shots without control is meaningless.
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The point was not about "day light" vs "night light". The point was that D700 (which is already better at lowlight than K-5), and D800 images were takes in the same light with the same lens and the same subject, and D800, when down sampled to 12 MP, is clearly better than D700..
You continue to post stupid responses.
Funny you say this when it was Johnny and the OP Kesha who proclaimed that 645D has better IQ without a shred of proof. Now you are making the exact point that I made, that we have to wait for proper studio tests with proper control. (We already know D800 will easily beat 645D on dxomark, so that's not even worth a wait).
Good thing you are making progress.
This was covered by a previous poster: FF is 59.5% of 645D; APS-C is 42% of FF
How is Dxomark general purpose score? They measure specific things: like dynamic range, tonal range, color sensitivity, SNR. D800 will smoke 645D on Dxomark,. We know that for sure (given 645D scores same as K-5)
This is pure nonsense. It's funny that in one breadth wy2lam and awaldram demand "comparative shots with proper control", and in the next they claim 645D smokes D800 at base ISO, without a shred of evidence.
You just don't get it at all do you, So fixated with figures you can no longer see the wood for the trees.
To the contrary base ISO IQ results are very difficult to 'cook'
You examples of the d700 and d800 make the lie to your conclusions which are full of bullshxt about 'what we all know' even though your on your own in your opinions.
Come on, show any facts backing your statements.
1 We already know D800 will easily beat 645D on dxomark,
Who is 'We' and how do 'we know' rather than suspect.?
2 Now you are making the exact point that I made
Where am I doing this.?
3 D700 (which was already better than any APSC at low light).
The facts are the D700 is superior by a stop at 200 iso through to 800 iso …the K5 pulls level by 6400 and has the d700 pasted by 10,000 iso. and beyond due to switching to bit shifting Vs Analogue amplification.
Which makes your statement at 3 just a figment of your imagination, Even DXO shows my results to be true
http://www.dxomark.com/
The d7000 is matching the d700 at 12,800 which means 2 APS-c cameras are as good or better than the d700 for the hghest-iso low light shooting.
Which makes me wonder just were you get your strange ideas from.?
The advantage the k5 has at 256,000 is clear to see in the example I posted and in the DXO chart.
As we can see the D800 Bit binned to 12Mpixel cannot match the k5 at 16Mp in your examples so guess its you proving my point
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This should be correctly written as
It's funny that everyone but ET2 in this thread agrees, in comparative shots the 645D smokes D800 at base ISO , using Nikon approved studio shots Vs any old 645d shot.
Come on ET2 the writing is on the wall all you have to do is read look and appraise.
Claiming that Nikon's studio shot are not up to muster is churlish in the extreme.
Hanging out for a score system that favours high pixel density over IQ isn't going to save your blushes.
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All K-5 scores over ISO 3200 should be tossed into trash, according to Dxomark (due to RAW NR that Pentax uses).
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/DxOMark-review-for-Pentax-cameras
Dxomark specifically singles out Pentax.
K-5 is worse than D700 by one stop D700: ISO 2303 is same as K-5 ISO 1162 ISO
Since K-5 is already one stop worse than D700, and D800 is better than D700, it shouldn't even be a context. I expect 2 to 3 stop difference (when D800 is down-sampled to 16 MP).
Notice how awaldram is suddenly telling us that APSC K-5 matches FF cameras. All of the sudden sensor size doesn't matter. In the next breadth he is going to say 645D smokes FF cameras because of the sensor size.
This is pretty much the story with awaldram (if you check his history):. M4/3? Bad. FF? Not that much better than APSC and 645D smokes it anyway. APSC? Good. If Pentax were to announce FF tommorow, suddenly awaldram will say FF is the best format.
Cool your now deciding what I'm going to day as well as what dxo is going to score the d800.
I would imagine anyone in the least interested has already checked my history Vs yours and reached their own conclusions.
As some have alluded to in this very thread. !
As for DXO comments re Raw nr, They do not offer any evidence as to their conclusions nor do they show any understanding of the issue at hand.
If when Pentax switch to Bit shifting the LSB is saturated by noise then no detail will be removed by dropping the bit and SNR will rise, Exactly what we see in the DXO charts.
Gordon tested for lost detail and was unable to detect any useful data missing therefore its reasonable to assume Pentax know what there doing and have got it right for the specific cameras affected (all cameras from the k10d onwards).
Strange how you find pentax switching there hardware processing so aberrant yet quite happily post bit binning as an example of the d800 superiority.?
Bit binning will always destroy detail as it takes no consideration what pixel is removed be it data or noise whereas Pentax's Bit shifting will have no affect on data if implemented correctly.
As to the FF vs APS-c argument I've never said FF isn't superior again you living in cloud cuckoo land I have repeatedly said (last 5 years) I see no evidence Pentax has any intention of introducing a FF camera in the near future.
I've also said (for 2 years) Sony will never produce another FF D-slr
So far both prophesies have proved solid as a rock, The Pentax one is proved an even if Pentax produce a FF next year I will have been correct.
Once Sony release a FF d-slt then My Sony prophesy looks founded .
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I cannot believe a small group of people are arguing over this nonsense.
It really is pretty sad. It really, really does not matter how many cr@ppy photos of chairs or bicylcles people post in an effort to prove a point, you are achieving nothing.
The 645D and D800 simply CANNOT be easily compared. Trying to do is the activity of a fool. I can only conclude that the participants here do NOT actually take photos for a living but would rather talk about the tech. If that rocks your world, then that is a shame.
Lets get back to basics. 645D and D800 are NOT comparable simply because:
1. 645D sensor is 1.7 times larger than D800. I dont give a cr@p if the 645D sensor is not the same size as MF film. The sensor is still much larger than 35mm FF.
2. The lenses are therefore different and in relation to the sensor have different DOF characteristics, which means that an image subjectively can look quite different.
3. 645D is CCD while D800 is CMOS. The images from these different sensors look different . Period.
Any discussion that clearly ignores these points is a waste of bandwidth.
And in answer to the OP, take it from a real practitioner who looks at digital images all day - they are NOT the same. End of debate.
I know, maybe I can open a thread comparing an iphone to a Pentax k-01, or comparing a washing machine to a tumble dryer.
Debating if a 645D is "better" than a D800 is like asking someone if Ice Cream is better than Mushrooms. They are different. There is no answer.
Can we move on now?
It really is pretty sad. It really, really does not matter how many cr@ppy photos of chairs or bicylcles people post in an effort to prove a point, you are achieving nothing.
The 645D and D800 simply CANNOT be easily compared. Trying to do is the activity of a fool. I can only conclude that the participants here do NOT actually take photos for a living but would rather talk about the tech. If that rocks your world, then that is a shame.
Lets get back to basics. 645D and D800 are NOT comparable simply because:
1. 645D sensor is 1.7 times larger than D800. I dont give a cr@p if the 645D sensor is not the same size as MF film. The sensor is still much larger than 35mm FF.
2. The lenses are therefore different and in relation to the sensor have different DOF characteristics, which means that an image subjectively can look quite different.
3. 645D is CCD while D800 is CMOS. The images from these different sensors look different . Period.
Any discussion that clearly ignores these points is a waste of bandwidth.
And in answer to the OP, take it from a real practitioner who looks at digital images all day - they are NOT the same. End of debate.
I know, maybe I can open a thread comparing an iphone to a Pentax k-01, or comparing a washing machine to a tumble dryer.
Debating if a 645D is "better" than a D800 is like asking someone if Ice Cream is better than Mushrooms. They are different. There is no answer.
Can we move on now?
That's a stupid statement, given Sony isn't even making APSC "DSLRs", if you refuse to consider SLT as Sony's alternative to DSLRs. Sony will make FF cameras similar to what they are doing with their APSS, like A77 with phase detect AF and liveview
Sony isn't "quitting" FF -- so you were wrong for 2 years. I know what you are going to say (it won't be a DSLR, but that's a stupid statement since that applies to Sony's APSCs too. That has nothing t o do with FF debate.).
Pardon me but I will take Dxomark words over yours.
Just in the last post you told us K-5 is better at ISO 25,600 than D700, by quoting Dxomark, then in the very next post, after I showed Dxomark specifically single out Pentax for RAW NR over ISO 3200, you told us Dxomark don't "have understanding of the issue"(why were you quoting them to prove a point?). Now you are saying you never said FF isn't superior (even though in the last post you did say K-5 is better at ISO 25600 than D700). Your entire history is filled with these inconsistent ramblings. "Comparative shots with proper control" are needed, you say, and in the very next post, you say 645D smokes D800 at base ISO, without any comparative shots to back up that claim.
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