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D60 firmware

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ff228

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Yesterday I finally got my D60 (off the shelf from Adorama, NY). The camera works very well. Upgrading from point-and-shoot I am happy about the speed and picture quality. I am not happy about the mirror noise and the clunky design. This is an SUV design: it will get you where you want to go and kill everything in its path. Try to catch a precious moment and you have one shot to do it before everybody runs away from you.

It strikes me that the overall point-and-shoot G3 concept has many advantages over the D60 and I find it unfortunate that great performance technology is being stuffed into obsolete SLR's. There is absolutely no need for the flapping mirror or looking through the lense. I definitely prefer the screen to the viewfinder to see what I am getting.

There is no digital camera which would really suite my needs at the moment. I am stuck between the vulgar D60 and slow G3 untill somebody up there gets the idea of mating them together. In the meantime I want to explore if there is anything I can do. To start with, using the D60 in manual mode with the mirror locked up permanently would make me happier. I am pretty sure this must be possible by tweeking the firmware but will I be able to get in? Before I roll my sleeves up I wonder if anybody can share their experiences in doing this sort of thing.

All best to everybody here,
Sam
 
You can not focus accurately or even decently with a viewing screen. Why waste battery when you can just look throught the viewfinder of SLR. The D60 is not an SUV, it is a sports car compared to the pro DSLRs. What happens is that you have been riding a bycicle too long. :-) The problem is that a DSLR is a DSLR. A point and shoot is a point and shoot.

--
http://www.cimphoto.com
 
Hi Sam,

The only way that I can think of to give you what you're after is to buy an Olympus E10/20. It's an SLR of course but the mirror does not move.

Nowhere near as good as the D60 but it's the quietest of all.

Regards,

Richard
Sam Anderson said:
Yesterday I finally got my D60 (off the shelf from Adorama, NY).
The camera works very well. Upgrading from point-and-shoot I am
happy about the speed and picture quality. I am not happy about the
mirror noise and the clunky design. This is an SUV design: it will
get you where you want to go and kill everything in its path. Try
to catch a precious moment and you have one shot to do it before
everybody runs away from you.

It strikes me that the overall point-and-shoot G3 concept has many
advantages over the D60 and I find it unfortunate that great
performance technology is being stuffed into obsolete SLR's. There
is absolutely no need for the flapping mirror or looking through
the lense. I definitely prefer the screen to the viewfinder to see
what I am getting.

There is no digital camera which would really suite my needs at the
moment. I am stuck between the vulgar D60 and slow G3 untill
somebody up there gets the idea of mating them together. In the
meantime I want to explore if there is anything I can do. To start
with, using the D60 in manual mode with the mirror locked up
permanently would make me happier. I am pretty sure this must be
possible by tweeking the firmware but will I be able to get in?
Before I roll my sleeves up I wonder if anybody can share their
experiences in doing this sort of thing.

All best to everybody here,
Sam
Click to expand...
 
I kind of wish they would give me the option of playing a recorded mp3 of the motor drive sound! I miss that noise in digital lol Sorry couldnt resist. Many adjustments for those not already used to shooting with an SLR, especially the LCD scren versus viewfinder. I agree though. you cant focus worth a toot via an LCD screen compared to SLR viewfinder.
Sam Anderson said:
Yesterday I finally got my D60 (off the shelf from Adorama, NY).
The camera works very well. Upgrading from point-and-shoot I am
happy about the speed and picture quality. I am not happy about the
mirror noise and the clunky design. This is an SUV design: it will
get you where you want to go and kill everything in its path. Try
to catch a precious moment and you have one shot to do it before
everybody runs away from you.

It strikes me that the overall point-and-shoot G3 concept has many
advantages over the D60 and I find it unfortunate that great
performance technology is being stuffed into obsolete SLR's. There
is absolutely no need for the flapping mirror or looking through
the lense. I definitely prefer the screen to the viewfinder to see
what I am getting.

There is no digital camera which would really suite my needs at the
moment. I am stuck between the vulgar D60 and slow G3 untill
somebody up there gets the idea of mating them together. In the
meantime I want to explore if there is anything I can do. To start
with, using the D60 in manual mode with the mirror locked up
permanently would make me happier. I am pretty sure this must be
possible by tweeking the firmware but will I be able to get in?
Before I roll my sleeves up I wonder if anybody can share their
experiences in doing this sort of thing.

All best to everybody here,
Sam
Click to expand...
 
Sam Anderson said:
Yesterday I finally got my D60 (off the shelf from Adorama, NY).
The camera works very well. Upgrading from point-and-shoot I am
happy about the speed and picture quality. I am not happy about the
mirror noise and the clunky design. This is an SUV design: it will
get you where you want to go and kill everything in its path. Try
to catch a precious moment and you have one shot to do it before
everybody runs away from you.

It strikes me that the overall point-and-shoot G3 concept has many
advantages over the D60 and I find it unfortunate that great
performance technology is being stuffed into obsolete SLR's. There
is absolutely no need for the flapping mirror or looking through
the lense. I definitely prefer the screen to the viewfinder to see
what I am getting.

There is no digital camera which would really suite my needs at the
moment. I am stuck between the vulgar D60 and slow G3 untill
somebody up there gets the idea of mating them together. In the
meantime I want to explore if there is anything I can do. To start
with, using the D60 in manual mode with the mirror locked up
permanently would make me happier. I am pretty sure this must be
possible by tweeking the firmware but will I be able to get in?
Before I roll my sleeves up I wonder if anybody can share their
experiences in doing this sort of thing.

All best to everybody here,
Sam
Click to expand...
--Take some advice form an old SUV driver. Don't mess with the D60.
Sell it and go back to a point and shoot. A DSLR is obviously not what you want.

A previous poster suggested the Exx cameras. They will allow you to eliminate the shutter noise, since the mirrors do not move. However, both are as clunky as the D60.

I for one, get a comfortable feeling when I hear that mirror flop. I know that the shot was taken.

I like your analogy of comparing a DSLR to an SUV. When the road ahead is uncertain, there is comfort in knowing that your SUV can handle just about anything you will encounter.

Conversely, roller skates, bicycles and toy cars are very limiting.

JoeR
 
well not me.......LMAO.......what is it with people that know nothing of which they buy.

funniest thing is, this person talks like they know enough to check the specs before hand, but nonetheless, bought the D60 anyways.........yeah right!!
Russell Stewart said:
Russell Stewart said:
"obsolete SLR's"
Click to expand...
Russell Stewart said:
"There is absolutely no need for the flapping mirror or looking through
the lense."
Click to expand...
Russell Stewart said:
"using the D60 in manual mode with the mirror locked up
permanently would make me happier"
Click to expand...
??? Words fail me right now!
Click to expand...
--
photography is my passion.
 
Sam,

I can understand that because you have a D60, a professional digital, that it made sense to post you query in this forum. For the advance Point-and-Shoot user, the desire for something more than the G3 but not encumbered with the bulky feel of an SLR is not an unreasonable wish. Please understand on the pro side, many of the people here make a living using solid cameras that allow shooters the flexibility film cameras do in a digital format. You mentioned some things that, to use your SUV analogy made sounded like a lot like the guy in the fully loaded Hummer 2 SUV - winch, chains, and GPS – driving it only to the supermarket who shows up to lumberjacks’ bar and starts talking about axes. You don’t want to be that guy. The comment of shooting with the mirror lock-up was particularly unfortunate. Try it. You’ll see. Your point is valid for your interest, but it’s not quite the venue or angle of many here. But read on.

Having said all that, I would advise you two take one of two courses of action. The first, you could take that D60 back to the store and admonish the sales person for selling you a camera that is way beyond your needs. The second, hang on to your G3 for informal pictures and learn what the D60 can offer you. I noticed in one of your previous posts, you talked about your Epson 2200. Great printer. You have a camera, now, that will allow you to do some great stuff with that printer. Obviously, you have a lot of enthusiasm, and I bet you could get a lot out of watching these forums. There is a wealth of information here. If digital is your interest and you are using Photoshop, I HIGHLY recommend http://www.adobeevangelists.com/ . Whatever path you choose; I wish you luck.

MB
 
Nice to see an actual response instead of condemnation for posting his opinion. Thanks Mark...
Mark Barnum said:
Sam,

I can understand that because you have a D60, a professional
digital, that it made sense to post you query in this forum. For
the advance Point-and-Shoot user, the desire for something more
than the G3 but not encumbered with the bulky feel of an SLR is not
an unreasonable wish. Please understand on the pro side, many of
the people here make a living using solid cameras that allow
shooters the flexibility film cameras do in a digital format. You
mentioned some things that, to use your SUV analogy made sounded
like a lot like the guy in the fully loaded Hummer 2 SUV - winch,
chains, and GPS – driving it only to the supermarket who shows up
to lumberjacks’ bar and starts talking about axes. You don’t want
to be that guy. The comment of shooting with the mirror lock-up
was particularly unfortunate. Try it. You’ll see. Your point is
valid for your interest, but it’s not quite the venue or angle of
many here. But read on.

Having said all that, I would advise you two take one of two
courses of action. The first, you could take that D60 back to the
store and admonish the sales person for selling you a camera that
is way beyond your needs. The second, hang on to your G3 for
informal pictures and learn what the D60 can offer you. I noticed
in one of your previous posts, you talked about your Epson 2200.
Great printer. You have a camera, now, that will allow you to do
some great stuff with that printer. Obviously, you have a lot of
enthusiasm, and I bet you could get a lot out of watching these
forums. There is a wealth of information here. If digital is your
interest and you are using Photoshop, I HIGHLY recommend
http://www.adobeevangelists.com/ . Whatever path you choose; I
wish you luck.

MB
Click to expand...
 
Sam Anderson said:
Yesterday I finally got my D60 (off the shelf from Adorama, NY).
The camera works very well. Upgrading from point-and-shoot I am
happy about the speed and picture quality. I am not happy about the
mirror noise and the clunky design. This is an SUV design: it will
get you where you want to go and kill everything in its path. Try
to catch a precious moment and you have one shot to do it before
everybody runs away from you.
Click to expand...
The mirror & shutter noise of the D60 is quite comparable to a typical 35mm camera with no motor drive. People have used such cameras in "quiet" environments like churches or hospitals for decades.

Has it occured to you that everybody running away might not be due to the camera? There are all sorts of people using SLR cameras who don't have this problem.
ff228 said:
It strikes me that the overall point-and-shoot G3 concept has many
advantages over the D60 and I find it unfortunate that great
performance technology is being stuffed into obsolete SLR's. There
is absolutely no need for the flapping mirror or looking through
the lense. I definitely prefer the screen to the viewfinder to see
what I am getting.
Click to expand...
The only advantage the P&S concept has, that I can see, is that it's smaller. And I suppose, every once in a while, a live LCD is useful in situations where you might not physically be able to put your eye to the viewfinder. But I can't think of any other advantage.

Typically, such a camera has a non-interchangeable lens that goes from only moderately wide-angle to only moderately telephoto, with no true macro capabilities. It's got a fairly weak flash that's positioned way too close to the lens axis to avoid problems like red-eye. It's got a smaller image sensor that's noise-prone, especially at higher ISO speeds. Such cameras typically have massive shutter release lag, largely in part BECAUSE of that live LCD display. And they usually have relatively poor battery life.

Remind me again... Other than a live LCD (with all its tradeoffs) and small size, what were those advantages of a P&S camera?

If you didn't WANT an SLR, you shouldn't have bought one. Everything you're complaining about is exactly what defines a camera as being an SLR in the first place. A "Single Lens Reflex" camera by definition has an optical viewfinder system where you actually view through the lens.

There are a lot of people out there who would disagree about the need for looking through the lens. An optical viewfinder offers many advantages over an electronic viewfinder. It works better in low-light. It is MUCH much better for manually focusing on a subject, and perhaps most importantly, it doesn't suck battery power like it's going out of style.
ff228 said:
There is no digital camera which would really suite my needs at the
moment. I am stuck between the vulgar D60 and slow G3 untill
somebody up there gets the idea of mating them together.
Click to expand...
Basically, you want a G3 with a bigger image sensor to get less noise that responds faster. That's certainly do-able, but it doesn't really qualify as a mating between a P&S and an SLR.
ff228 said:
In the
meantime I want to explore if there is anything I can do. To start
with, using the D60 in manual mode with the mirror locked up
permanently would make me happier. I am pretty sure this must be
possible by tweeking the firmware but will I be able to get in?
Before I roll my sleeves up I wonder if anybody can share their
experiences in doing this sort of thing.
Click to expand...
No, it's not possible. Even if you did have some way of tweaking the firmware yourself, it's not a firmware issue. There are many aspects of the camera's design that prevent it.
  • The D60's shutter is not designed to remain open all of the time, as would be necessary to provide a live update on the LCD screen. Most P&S cameras with a live LCD display have a purely virtual electronic shutter. That is, there is no physical shutter. When the release is pressed, the camera simply stops down the lens aperture and then samples the image sensor for a certain amount of time corresponding to the requested shutter speed.
  • Not all image sensors are designed for continuous reading. In fact, I doubt that the D60's sensor has this ability. Mainly because if it did, then Canon would likely be using smaller-sized variations of this sensor in their P&S models in order to take advantage of the lower cost of CMOS.
  • The auto-focus system is built into the viewfinder. If you locked up the mirror permanently, you would only be able to use manual focus.
  • The metering system is also built into the viewfinder system.
I'm sure there's probably a dozen other reasons besides those.

You're certainly entitled to want whatever kind of camera you like. But it's not reasonable for you to complain that the entire category of "SLR" is flawed when the real problem is that you didn't do your homework before you went out and bought a camera like the D60.

You might consider that there are other options out there besides the G3 and the D60. Maybe something like the Minolta Dimage 7, Nikon 5700, or Fuji S602 would be a better choice for you.

Mike
 
Hi Sam,
ff228 said:
Yesterday I finally got my D60 (off the shelf from Adorama, NY).
The camera works very well. Upgrading from point-and-shoot I am
happy about the speed and picture quality. I am not happy about the
mirror noise and the clunky design. This is an SUV design: it will
get you where you want to go and kill everything in its path. Try
to catch a precious moment and you have one shot to do it before
everybody runs away from you.
Click to expand...
it all depends on what you are using a camera for. If you want to shot people that did not voluntueer to pose, the clunky design of a SLR camera and the mirror noise, though I never saw this as a problem personally, does get in your way.

My own personal expierence is that the flash attracts most attention, so I'd say that the D60 with its excellent (non-)noise behaviour at higher ISO levels and combined with a fast lens is much better to use in low ligh situations than any P&S camera.

Further, if people are running away I'd say that this is not so much a technical problem. It happens to me, too, but I'd encourage you solve this not by technical means. When you took a picture and take away the camera smile back to the subject in a way indicating that you just took a very nice photo of him/her/them. Don't show any concern or disappointment you might have about the shot.

Then, if you want to take pictures of people at an event (family gathering, party, etc.), first socialize with the people with your camera prominent resting on your breast without shooting yet. Once people are accustomed to the image of you with your camera, they will react much more naturally once you start shooting.

As an counterexample, shotting people when they, e.g. enter through the door at the event just at the moment they show up is not a good idea.
ff228 said:
It strikes me that the overall point-and-shoot G3 concept has many
advantages over the D60 and I find it unfortunate that great
performance technology is being stuffed into obsolete SLR's. There
is absolutely no need for the flapping mirror or looking through
the lense.
Click to expand...
Since I have to shoot with an electronic viewfinder myself with my digital camera I could not disagree more. My experience is that to notice all the little details a TTL viewfinder is vital.
ff228 said:
There is no digital camera which would really suite my needs at the
moment. I am stuck between the vulgar D60 and slow G3 untill
somebody up there gets the idea of mating them together. In the
meantime I want to explore if there is anything I can do. To start
with, using the D60 in manual mode with the mirror locked up
permanently would make me happier.
Click to expand...
There is no way to do this. The camera is designed to be used with the TTL viewfinder. I think the only D-SLR models that show a live preview on the LCD are the Olympus E-10/20 models, but again, these might not fit your needs (they still have mirrors).
ff228 said:
Before I roll my sleeves up I wonder if anybody can share their
experiences in doing this sort of thing.
Click to expand...
My conclusion: You might actually not want a D-SLR camera. I'd suggest you play a lot with the camera and try to find the positive sides of such a model, though. If it doesn't fit your needs, use the G3 until some superior p&s cameras show up.

Regarding other comments in this thread, please understand that there are lots of people who simply cannot afford to buy the D60 and have to go with the p&s models (like me). They feel quite limited by these models and have to wait until the D-SLR models come down in price.

If you are still unhappy with the D60 I'd be most willing to send you a new G3 in return for the D60. Email me for my postal address. ;-)

Good luck,
Marcus
 
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