Low Light Focusing

kecohen said:

Austin316 said:

Sorry Jim but that snow shot doesn't look to be focused very well
and it is a wider angle shot. Not as much need for focus. Most of
what I shoot seems to be at least mid zoom.
I am not picking on you. Your one of the good guys. I just am about
fed up with missing shots that I could get with my Fuji. I don't
want to loose the rez. and zoom but I may go back if we can't find
an answer.

--

• . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *

Michael... Olympus D-600L, FUJI 4900, Nikon 5700 and still waiting
for that affordable 'Dream' Digicam

Click to expand...

Austin,

This isn't a Fuji, and I'd be willing to bet you're NOT asking this
camera to do the same things you did with the Fuji. For one thing,
you are using a longer lens with greater magnification. You have
got to understand that this camera has a magnification factor of
4x. That's huge!

Even at half the telephoto range, you're shooting with an
equivalent 140mm lens, with as wide open an aperture as the camera
can give you (probably around 3.6).
This is comparable to a portrait lens, with a little more DOF. But
you'd NEVER see a portrait photographer try to use that lens
without a tripod even under the best controlled lighting
situations! Why? Because even if the photographer and the subject
were to hold their breath, they are each still moving at a minimum
of 1/60 sec (unsynchronized) because their hearts are beating. The
camera picks up the tiniest movement. And the closer you are to
your subject, whether by telephoto or actual proximity, the more
magnified the movement becomes.

There are several things that cause blur in images: not enough
light, too slow a shutter speed, subject moving and camera shake.
To have perfectly focused photos, YOU (not the camera) have to
eliminate the camera shake; only then can you adjust the camera, or
let the camera make its own adjustments, to compensate for the
other factors that you can't control.

I have heard that adding the MB5700 battery pack adds weight to the
camera and helps you stabilize it some. I prefer a heavy duty
tripod. I also have a heavy duty monopod (with detachable legs) and
a remote switch.

By the way, without a tripod, your shutter speed should be 2x the
focal distance of your lens to compensate for subject motion and
camera shake--i.e., just to freeze the action. That's independent
of focus. And then you need enough light getting through to the CCD.

The more you know about photography the more you will love this
camera. There are volumes of examples of what this camera can do in
the right hands. You just have to understand that it isn't like any
other camera you've had before.
--
Karen

...but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you
need.
Minolta 7000i, accessories and lenses, lenses, lenses; CP5700, TC15ED,
Kenko KUT-300 Hi, SB80X Speedlight, Epson Stylus 980N, Epson 7600
(shared), Epson Expression 1680 w/ transparency unit, Tamron Fotovix
60WU....
http://www.e-designarts.com
http://www.pbase.com/kecohen/

Click to expand...

Ron T said:

Maybe you got a defective camera because you shouldn't have to be
in bright light to get focus. The zoom must be used wisely or you
can get blur with improper shutter speed, 8x zoom you need 1/280th
sec. minimum for hand-held use. You must also make sure of focus
lock (half press) before you press the shutter all the way down, if
you don't it's Russian Roulette like you said. You can not focus on
low contrast objects such as solid color wall, focus on something
else on the wall and get focus lock then recompose the shot. Hope
this helps.

Ron T

Click to expand...

kecohen said:

Austin316 said:

Sorry Jim but that snow shot doesn't look to be focused very well
and it is a wider angle shot. Not as much need for focus. Most of
what I shoot seems to be at least mid zoom.
I am not picking on you. Your one of the good guys. I just am about
fed up with missing shots that I could get with my Fuji. I don't
want to loose the rez. and zoom but I may go back if we can't find
an answer.

--

• . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *

Michael... Olympus D-600L, FUJI 4900, Nikon 5700 and still waiting
for that affordable 'Dream' Digicam

Click to expand...

Austin,

This isn't a Fuji, and I'd be willing to bet you're NOT asking this
camera to do the same things you did with the Fuji. For one thing,
you are using a longer lens with greater magnification. You have
got to understand that this camera has a magnification factor of
4x. That's huge!

Even at half the telephoto range, you're shooting with an
equivalent 140mm lens, with as wide open an aperture as the camera
can give you (probably around 3.6).
This is comparable to a portrait lens, with a little more DOF. But
you'd NEVER see a portrait photographer try to use that lens
without a tripod even under the best controlled lighting
situations! Why? Because even if the photographer and the subject
were to hold their breath, they are each still moving at a minimum
of 1/60 sec (unsynchronized) because their hearts are beating. The
camera picks up the tiniest movement. And the closer you are to
your subject, whether by telephoto or actual proximity, the more
magnified the movement becomes.

There are several things that cause blur in images: not enough
light, too slow a shutter speed, subject moving and camera shake.
To have perfectly focused photos, YOU (not the camera) have to
eliminate the camera shake; only then can you adjust the camera, or
let the camera make its own adjustments, to compensate for the
other factors that you can't control.

I have heard that adding the MB5700 battery pack adds weight to the
camera and helps you stabilize it some. I prefer a heavy duty
tripod. I also have a heavy duty monopod (with detachable legs) and
a remote switch.

By the way, without a tripod, your shutter speed should be 2x the
focal distance of your lens to compensate for subject motion and
camera shake--i.e., just to freeze the action. That's independent
of focus. And then you need enough light getting through to the CCD.

The more you know about photography the more you will love this
camera. There are volumes of examples of what this camera can do in
the right hands. You just have to understand that it isn't like any
other camera you've had before.
--
Karen

...but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you
need.
Minolta 7000i, accessories and lenses, lenses, lenses; CP5700, TC15ED,
Kenko KUT-300 Hi, SB80X Speedlight, Epson Stylus 980N, Epson 7600
(shared), Epson Expression 1680 w/ transparency unit, Tamron Fotovix
60WU....
http://www.e-designarts.com
http://www.pbase.com/kecohen/

Click to expand...

Austin316 said:

Ron T said:

Maybe you got a defective camera because you shouldn't have to be
in bright light to get focus. The zoom must be used wisely or you
can get blur with improper shutter speed, 8x zoom you need 1/280th
sec. minimum for hand-held use. You must also make sure of focus
lock (half press) before you press the shutter all the way down, if
you don't it's Russian Roulette like you said. You can not focus on
low contrast objects such as solid color wall, focus on something
else on the wall and get focus lock then recompose the shot. Hope
this helps.

Ron T

Click to expand...

Actually Ron, you are right on, I do use something bright or shiny.
It doesn't take much but often there isn't enough and the camera
goes into that focus conformation mode where instead of locking on
it pretty much focuses stop to stop and back to where it thinks
focus should be.
That is what happened tonight, for my sons 10th birthday. The
problem is the camera focused on the background and not him, Nice
hugh? I wanted this shot too.



Goldie, my little girl pulled up to the birthday table for her
cake, this 1 of 5 is great!



This one, of the other 4, focused on the wall behind her. GREAT
isn't it!



I'm tired of people telling me that after 25 years of photography I
can't take a picture. It is me and not the camera.
Here is the data,
Full EXIF Info
Date/Time - 29-Dec-2002 09:48:09
Make - Nikon
Model - E5700
Flash Used - Yes
Focal Length - 29.5 mm
Exposure Time - 1/125 sec
Aperture - f/3.7
ISO Equivalent - 100
Notice the focal length is only 29.5mm Not exactly "FULL ZOOM" is
it. So many people tell me that I loose focus because of so much
zoom.

Thanx anyway Ron, I know you mean well.

Click to expand...

kecohen said:

Austin316 said:

Sorry Jim but that snow shot doesn't look to be focused very well
and it is a wider angle shot. Not as much need for focus. Most of
what I shoot seems to be at least mid zoom.
I am not picking on you. Your one of the good guys. I just am about
fed up with missing shots that I could get with my Fuji. I don't
want to loose the rez. and zoom but I may go back if we can't find
an answer.

--

• . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *

Michael... Olympus D-600L, FUJI 4900, Nikon 5700 and still waiting
for that affordable 'Dream' Digicam

Click to expand...

Austin,

This isn't a Fuji, and I'd be willing to bet you're NOT asking this
camera to do the same things you did with the Fuji. For one thing,
you are using a longer lens with greater magnification. You have
got to understand that this camera has a magnification factor of
4x. That's huge!

Even at half the telephoto range, you're shooting with an
equivalent 140mm lens, with as wide open an aperture as the camera
can give you (probably around 3.6).
This is comparable to a portrait lens, with a little more DOF. But
you'd NEVER see a portrait photographer try to use that lens
without a tripod even under the best controlled lighting
situations! Why? Because even if the photographer and the subject
were to hold their breath, they are each still moving at a minimum
of 1/60 sec (unsynchronized) because their hearts are beating. The
camera picks up the tiniest movement. And the closer you are to
your subject, whether by telephoto or actual proximity, the more
magnified the movement becomes.

There are several things that cause blur in images: not enough
light, too slow a shutter speed, subject moving and camera shake.
To have perfectly focused photos, YOU (not the camera) have to
eliminate the camera shake; only then can you adjust the camera, or
let the camera make its own adjustments, to compensate for the
other factors that you can't control.

I have heard that adding the MB5700 battery pack adds weight to the
camera and helps you stabilize it some. I prefer a heavy duty
tripod. I also have a heavy duty monopod (with detachable legs) and
a remote switch.

By the way, without a tripod, your shutter speed should be 2x the
focal distance of your lens to compensate for subject motion and
camera shake--i.e., just to freeze the action. That's independent
of focus. And then you need enough light getting through to the CCD.

The more you know about photography the more you will love this
camera. There are volumes of examples of what this camera can do in
the right hands. You just have to understand that it isn't like any
other camera you've had before.
--
Karen

...but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you
need.
Minolta 7000i, accessories and lenses, lenses, lenses; CP5700, TC15ED,
Kenko KUT-300 Hi, SB80X Speedlight, Epson Stylus 980N, Epson 7600
(shared), Epson Expression 1680 w/ transparency unit, Tamron Fotovix
60WU....
http://www.e-designarts.com
http://www.pbase.com/kecohen/

Click to expand...

kecohen said:

Multiply 29.5mm times 4 to see what the actual 35mm equivalent for
that focal length is: 118mm.

This is not your old Fuji 4900, Austin. Nor is it really comparable
to any 35mm SLR you've ever known. You have to think of this
camera as an incredibly hypersensitive sensor--which it is--and
THEN use your 25 years of photographic experience to complement the
camera. You continue to try to make the camera accomodate YOU, and
you have no experience with a camera as sensitive as this one.

Think of it. The lens' minimum aperture setting is only 8! Most
comparable zoom lenses go down to 32! That too is a factor of 4.
The lens bore diameter is really only just shy of 30mm (not the
adapter ring diameter, the actual lens bore.) Think of the amount
of light that can enter.

You can use a tripod, or you can up your shutter to 1/250 and use
fill flash if necessary. I guarantee you'll get your shot.

--
Karen

...but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you
need.
Minolta 7000i, accessories and lenses, lenses, lenses; CP5700, TC15ED,
Kenko KUT-300 Hi, SB80X Speedlight, Epson Stylus 980N, Epson 7600
(shared), Epson Expression 1680 w/ transparency unit, Tamron Fotovix
60WU....
http://www.e-designarts.com
http://www.pbase.com/kecohen/

Click to expand...

Mark Booth said:

I think the point of Austin's message is that he took 5 shots of
the dog (all WITH flash BTW) and all with similar framing and zoom
and only 1 of the shots had the dog in focus. 1 out of 5 stinks!
Why one and not the others? Unpredictible results like this are
what make this camera so much of a pain.

Click to expand...

Mark Booth said:

I think the point of Austin's message is that he took 5 shots of
the dog (all WITH flash BTW) and all with similar framing and zoom
and only 1 of the shots had the dog in focus. 1 out of 5 stinks!
Why one and not the others? Unpredictible results like this are
what make this camera so much of a pain.

Mark

Click to expand...

Backdoctor said:

You all are way ahead of me on this stuff, but I have found that I
can take a well focused shot, and when i lower the resolution and
size to upload to pbase, it comes out looking soft. Can this be a
factor here?

Harris

Click to expand...

• . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *

ed nazarko said:

The reason you got this great shot is that, know it or not, you
were panning with the action. His head is crisp, because it was
moving less than the rest of his body and you were panning at the
same speed and vector as his head was moving, everything else was
blurred because it was moving too fast for the shutter speed. So
you got a great shot, better than they guys using a fast shutter
speed to "stop all the action" would get - because it'd look like
they shot a diorama of hockey. You've got a sports shot.

I'll bet that if you looked at most of the shots you got that were
junk at this game, you'd find that most of the blur is motion blur

• hand motion (the little muscle twitches that your body generates

to keep track of your location in space and time) or action blur.
Panning, because it is using your muscles, damps the baseline
movement in your body a bit. Hence the killer shot you got here.

FYI, 10 out of 88 is a better average than a pro shooter would get
or expect. I"ve shot hockey before, with thousands of dollars of
SLR gear, and super high speed film. I'd have been ecstatic with a
1/8 yield. I generally turn off autofocus, because indoor sports
lighting is relatively low contrast lighting - even and flat,
because television cameras add a lot of contrast, and sports
lighting is optimized for TV. I find it hard to even focus by eye,
much less count on the robot in the camera. The technique to use
is preset a focus where you anticipate the action to be going, pan
and shoot like hell as it goes there and passes through. You'll
get better shots, and a higher yield, than by using auto focus, or
trying to follow focus with high speed action.

This isn't "nicing it away." You've got a camera that pushes a
bunch of limits, beyond pro cameras in many cases, at an amateur
price.

Reminds me of the guy who bought a 993 Porsche, brought it to the
race track, and decided the car was junk because I could ride his
bumper all the way around the track in a stock BMW 325. He
completely ignored the fact that I'd spent five years at various
driving schools, and put more miles on my car on the track in those
years than most people would in an entire life.

Austin316 said:

Two choices. 1) return it. 2) deal with it. There are many
hopefulls here who think they can wish it or "Nice" it away. It
ain't getting better any day soon. Nikon won't admit it, and
without a manual focusing ring, how you gonna focus?
Oh wait, I know...
Take all your pix in bright light and use widest zoom settings.
Oh yea, better use some flash too!
What am I saying, now and again I get a shot I like but it's like
"Russian Roulette" Put it to your head and pull the trigger.
I got this Friday night at the Ducks game 8 or 10 others are O.K.
out of 88.



--

• . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *

Michael... Olympus D-600L, FUJI 4900, Nikon 5700 and still waiting
for that affordable 'Dream' Digicam

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

D.R. Barnhart said:

Is 1 out of 5 that bad, assuming using "auto" for this picture?
Here's my reasoning... The camera looks for the highest contrast
assuming (not always correctly) it's closest to the camera. The
contrast between the boys shirt and the frig is relatively low
compared to the contrast between the frig and the wall (or stuff on
the frig). So wouldn't you expect the picture he got?

The dog pics as you said, are "similar", but they aren't identical.
Again it looks like the camera was going for contrast so, no
surprises there either.

Try what Ron said about "AF Area Mode". The results would have
been what you wanted.

D.R.Barnhart

PS Plus, it's digital. Just hit the "Delete" key on the other 4
and you still have a great picture. Nothing lost but a few
seconds...

Click to expand...

• . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *

kecohen said:

Austin316 said:

Ron T said:

Maybe you got a defective camera because you shouldn't have to be
in bright light to get focus. The zoom must be used wisely or you
can get blur with improper shutter speed, 8x zoom you need 1/280th
sec. minimum for hand-held use. You must also make sure of focus
lock (half press) before you press the shutter all the way down, if
you don't it's Russian Roulette like you said. You can not focus on
low contrast objects such as solid color wall, focus on something
else on the wall and get focus lock then recompose the shot. Hope
this helps.

Ron T

Click to expand...

Actually Ron, you are right on, I do use something bright or shiny.
It doesn't take much but often there isn't enough and the camera
goes into that focus conformation mode where instead of locking on
it pretty much focuses stop to stop and back to where it thinks
focus should be.
That is what happened tonight, for my sons 10th birthday. The
problem is the camera focused on the background and not him, Nice
hugh? I wanted this shot too.



Goldie, my little girl pulled up to the birthday table for her
cake, this 1 of 5 is great!



This one, of the other 4, focused on the wall behind her. GREAT
isn't it!



I'm tired of people telling me that after 25 years of photography I
can't take a picture. It is me and not the camera.
Here is the data,
Full EXIF Info
Date/Time - 29-Dec-2002 09:48:09
Make - Nikon
Model - E5700
Flash Used - Yes
Focal Length - 29.5 mm
Exposure Time - 1/125 sec
Aperture - f/3.7
ISO Equivalent - 100
Notice the focal length is only 29.5mm Not exactly "FULL ZOOM" is
it. So many people tell me that I loose focus because of so much
zoom.

Thanx anyway Ron, I know you mean well.

Click to expand...

Multiply 29.5mm times 4 to see what the actual 35mm equivalent for
that focal length is: 118mm.

This is not your old Fuji 4900, Austin. Nor is it really comparable
to any 35mm SLR you've ever known. You have to think of this
camera as an incredibly hypersensitive sensor--which it is--and
THEN use your 25 years of photographic experience to complement the
camera. You continue to try to make the camera accomodate YOU, and
you have no experience with a camera as sensitive as this one.

Think of it. The lens' minimum aperture setting is only 8! Most
comparable zoom lenses go down to 32! That too is a factor of 4.
The lens bore diameter is really only just shy of 30mm (not the
adapter ring diameter, the actual lens bore.) Think of the amount
of light that can enter.

You can use a tripod, or you can up your shutter to 1/250 and use
fill flash if necessary. I guarantee you'll get your shot.

--
Karen

...but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you
need.
Minolta 7000i, accessories and lenses, lenses, lenses; CP5700, TC15ED,
Kenko KUT-300 Hi, SB80X Speedlight, Epson Stylus 980N, Epson 7600
(shared), Epson Expression 1680 w/ transparency unit, Tamron Fotovix
60WU....
http://www.e-designarts.com
http://www.pbase.com/kecohen/

Click to expand...

Austin316 said:

Well D. R. I am going to try both ways with Auto and manual AF, I
have switched modes before but never noticed any change except for
the cursor in the EVF.

Click to expand...

• . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *

David Cloward said:

I posted a question earlier to find out about a comment I read in
Phil Askey's review on the 5700 about a concern on the camera's
auto focus in low light conditions. After reading this thread, I
am wondering if the 5700 is meant for a photographer with
experience and not someone that simply just wants a point and shoot
with zoom and 5 mega-pixels. Is the Sony F717 better suited for me
and my use? I know my wife will not change the settings on the
camera and won't know when to do so. Any advice is appreciated. I
am trying to buy the camera best suited for our use.
Thanks

Click to expand...

Waltertg43 said:

Hi All, I just purchased nikon 5700 but the low light focusing is
pretty bad. I had a 5000 and I think it worked better. Anyone have
any ideas on how to overcome this. Wally

Click to expand...

Waltertg43 said:

Hi All, I just purchased nikon 5700 but the low light focusing is
pretty bad. I had a 5000 and I think it worked better. Anyone have
any ideas on how to overcome this. Wally

Click to expand...

Gary Aksland said:

Waltertg43 said:

Hi All, I just purchased nikon 5700 but the low light focusing is
pretty bad. I had a 5000 and I think it worked better. Anyone have
any ideas on how to overcome this. Wally

Click to expand...

Click to expand...