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Studio Lighting for Digicams?

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In my merry research for a studio light setup, one thing donged on me. Now keep in mind that I want to be able to use my lighting rig with a Sony F717 digicam that has a minimum aperture of f8. I have some MF gear as well but I think the F717 will be the major player in the studio because it will give me real-time feedback and my MF gear does not have pola-back capability.

I was buying into the argument that more power is better, but will by digicam be able to deal with this much power at f8? Right now I'm thinking about getting a AlienBees B1600 with a 5 - 7 ft. octadome, using reflectors for fill, but I haven't ruled out a more powerful light such as a Force 10 either. Is this going to be overkill, or would a B800 suit me better?

--
DSC-F717, C-4040Z



http://www.pbase.com/m_klemmer
http://www1.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=5596
http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=338964
 
I am also ready to order an AB. I was thinking of getting ONE (1) B1600 and with same set up as you do, Mike but I have a D30. I want to be able to do portraits and at the same time full body shots. Or I am better off with two (2) B800? Anybody? Thanks!
 
I think that a large softbox, 3ft. x 4ft. or bigger, or a 5+ ft. octodome should be plenty. See Brian Mackey's image with a Novatron M500:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=4064801
Tisya said:
I am also ready to order an AB. I was thinking of getting ONE (1)
B1600 and with same set up as you do, Mike but I have a D30. I
want to be able to do portraits and at the same time full body
shots. Or I am better off with two (2) B800? Anybody? Thanks!
Click to expand...
--
DSC-F717, C-4040Z



http://www.pbase.com/m_klemmer
http://www1.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=5596
http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=338964
 
You can get a B1600 but you'll find very few situations where you can use that much power. I use a Dimage 7 which has a minimum aperture half a stop smaller than the F717 and I almost never need full power on a B400. i primarily shoot with a large photoflex softbox, 36"x48". At six feet and 160ws (full on a B400) my meter shows f11 for ISO 100 so I typically have it at half power to shoot at f8. I've considered getting a B800 but would rather use the B400s so I can set the modeling lights to proportional and still have them at almost full intensity. A B1600 will be wasted money and power IMO

I have a B1600 but only use it when shooting medium format film and want to stop down to f16-22
Mike Klemmer said:
In my merry research for a studio light setup, one thing donged on
me. Now keep in mind that I want to be able to use my lighting rig
with a Sony F717 digicam that has a minimum aperture of f8. I have
some MF gear as well but I think the F717 will be the major player
in the studio because it will give me real-time feedback and my MF
gear does not have pola-back capability.

I was buying into the argument that more power is better, but will
by digicam be able to deal with this much power at f8? Right now
I'm thinking about getting a AlienBees B1600 with a 5 - 7 ft.
octadome, using reflectors for fill, but I haven't ruled out a more
powerful light such as a Force 10 either. Is this going to be
overkill, or would a B800 suit me better?

--
DSC-F717, C-4040Z



http://www.pbase.com/m_klemmer
http://www1.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=5596
http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=338964
Click to expand...
 
I have an F717 and have been using four B400 strobes. I use the 48" umbrellas and the large softbox in a smallish room (17'x17' with 11 foot ceiling) and have yet to use more than half power on the lights. I know everyone is different but I find quite often that the background lights are at the minimum lighting level and the main light is around half power. I shoot anywhere from f/2.5 to f/5.6, I avoid using apertures above f/5.6 because of the diffraction induced blurring to the image.

If I had a larger studio I could see using the B800 or greater, but I just don't need the power with my current setup.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
 
Tisya said:
I am also ready to order an AB. I was thinking of getting ONE (1)
B1600 and with same set up as you do, Mike but I have a D30. I
want to be able to do portraits and at the same time full body
shots. Or I am better off with two (2) B800? Anybody? Thanks!
Click to expand...
This is what I have decided to order from AB. But first I need some opinions from the people who has experienced with this set up.

One (1)B800, a 32X40 soft box and a heavy duty stand LS3900. Are these enough to get me going to take portraits? What kind of lights/bulb do I need? Do I need to order lights too or it comes with lights. I am also getting a light meter probably a Sekonic L358. Thanks. - Tisya
 
I'm getting ready to use my "not yet received tax return money" to purchase 2 AlienBees B800 for my new studio which will be approx 12' x 19' with 8’ ceilings, I hope this is a good light setup for my setting.

Also, should I purchase the heavier duty light stands since I hear that the stands which come with the original set are a bit flimsy?
Mike Klemmer said:
In my merry research for a studio light setup, one thing donged on
me. Now keep in mind that I want to be able to use my lighting rig
with a Sony F717 digicam that has a minimum aperture of f8. I have
some MF gear as well but I think the F717 will be the major player
in the studio because it will give me real-time feedback and my MF
gear does not have pola-back capability.

I was buying into the argument that more power is better, but will
by digicam be able to deal with this much power at f8? Right now
I'm thinking about getting a AlienBees B1600 with a 5 - 7 ft.
octadome, using reflectors for fill, but I haven't ruled out a more
powerful light such as a Force 10 either. Is this going to be
overkill, or would a B800 suit me better?

--
DSC-F717, C-4040Z



http://www.pbase.com/m_klemmer
http://www1.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=5596
http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=338964
Click to expand...
--
Photographers don't stroll through life without noticing each day.
 
This is a major plus of the Alien Bees lights. You get 5 full stops of stepless power control. Thus, you can dial them down to 1/32nd power if you need to, or anwhere between full and 1/32nd.

Duncan C.

P.S. I shoot with different eqipment, but the bees sound like great value for the money.
-------
ARB1 said:
Also, should I purchase the heavier duty light stands since I hear
that the stands which come with the original set are a bit flimsy?
Mike Klemmer said:
In my merry research for a studio light setup, one thing donged on
me. Now keep in mind that I want to be able to use my lighting rig
with a Sony F717 digicam that has a minimum aperture of f8. I have
some MF gear as well but I think the F717 will be the major player
in the studio because it will give me real-time feedback and my MF
gear does not have pola-back capability.

I was buying into the argument that more power is better, but will
by digicam be able to deal with this much power at f8? Right now
I'm thinking about getting a AlienBees B1600 with a 5 - 7 ft.
octadome, using reflectors for fill, but I haven't ruled out a more
powerful light such as a Force 10 either. Is this going to be
overkill, or would a B800 suit me better?

--
DSC-F717, C-4040Z



http://www.pbase.com/m_klemmer
http://www1.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=5596
http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=338964
Click to expand...
--
Photographers don't stroll through life without noticing each day.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
 
Yes. Get the heavier stand. I had to return the lighter one. The heavy duty stand will also allow you to use a boom arm if you need one. The lighter one is not engg. for boom.
ARB1 said:
Also, should I purchase the heavier duty light stands since I hear
that the stands which come with the original set are a bit flimsy?
Mike Klemmer said:
In my merry research for a studio light setup, one thing donged on
me. Now keep in mind that I want to be able to use my lighting rig
with a Sony F717 digicam that has a minimum aperture of f8. I have
some MF gear as well but I think the F717 will be the major player
in the studio because it will give me real-time feedback and my MF
gear does not have pola-back capability.

I was buying into the argument that more power is better, but will
by digicam be able to deal with this much power at f8? Right now
I'm thinking about getting a AlienBees B1600 with a 5 - 7 ft.
octadome, using reflectors for fill, but I haven't ruled out a more
powerful light such as a Force 10 either. Is this going to be
overkill, or would a B800 suit me better?

--
DSC-F717, C-4040Z



http://www.pbase.com/m_klemmer
http://www1.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=5596
http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=338964
Click to expand...
--
Photographers don't stroll through life without noticing each day.
Click to expand...
 
I use a Minolta 7i with 2 B400's and umbrellas. The B400's at 1/2 power allow for 1/500 to 1/750 sec at F8 for initial portrait shots. I wondered too if I needed more power, but the B400s seem sufficient as I am using them. The standard stand is fine for umbrellas, but might not be for soft box. With a boom, you probably need the heavy duty stand. It is very heavy duty however, not real portable.

Regards, Tom
 
Why not get two 800's and two heavy duty lightstands - or 1 800 and 1 heavy duty lightstands with some accesories..

1 B800 Flash Unit
1 10' General Purpose Stand
1 48" Silver/White Reversible Bounce Umbrella
1 AlienBees Single Light Carrying

$359 (estimated shipping $14)

With an upgrade to the better stand

Plus you get a discount...
tjshaffer said:
I use a Minolta 7i with 2 B400's and umbrellas. The B400's at 1/2
power allow for 1/500 to 1/750 sec at F8 for initial portrait
shots. I wondered too if I needed more power, but the B400s seem
sufficient as I am using them. The standard stand is fine for
umbrellas, but might not be for soft box. With a boom, you
probably need the heavy duty stand. It is very heavy duty however,
not real portable.

Regards, Tom
Click to expand...
--
Brent Burzycki
http://www.blackdiamondproductions.net
D100 - 24-120mm etc etc
 
tjshaffer said:
I use a Minolta 7i with 2 B400's and umbrellas. The B400's at 1/2
power allow for 1/500 to 1/750 sec at F8 for initial portrait
shots. I wondered too if I needed more power, but the B400s seem
sufficient as I am using them. The standard stand is fine for
umbrellas, but might not be for soft box. With a boom, you
probably need the heavy duty stand. It is very heavy duty however,
not real portable.

Regards, Tom
Click to expand...
Tom,

The Minolta 7i syncs that fast? Most DSLRs get banding on the image due to the focal plane shutter. I shoot with a Nikon D1X, which is an exception to this. I've sync'ed with it up to 1/4000th of a second.

Duncan C
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
 
Duncan:

7i top sync speed is 1/2000th.
Duncan C said:
tjshaffer said:
I use a Minolta 7i with 2 B400's and umbrellas. The B400's at 1/2
power allow for 1/500 to 1/750 sec at F8 for initial portrait
shots. I wondered too if I needed more power, but the B400s seem
sufficient as I am using them. The standard stand is fine for
umbrellas, but might not be for soft box. With a boom, you
probably need the heavy duty stand. It is very heavy duty however,
not real portable.

Regards, Tom
Click to expand...
Tom,

The Minolta 7i syncs that fast? Most DSLRs get banding on the image
due to the focal plane shutter. I shoot with a Nikon D1X, which is
an exception to this. I've sync'ed with it up to 1/4000th of a
second.

Duncan C
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
Click to expand...
 
I gather it has an electronic shutter, then?

Duncan C
---
GSMEarth said:
7i top sync speed is 1/2000th.
Duncan C said:
tjshaffer said:
I use a Minolta 7i with 2 B400's and umbrellas. The B400's at 1/2
power allow for 1/500 to 1/750 sec at F8 for initial portrait
shots. I wondered too if I needed more power, but the B400s seem
sufficient as I am using them. The standard stand is fine for
umbrellas, but might not be for soft box. With a boom, you
probably need the heavy duty stand. It is very heavy duty however,
not real portable.

Regards, Tom
Click to expand...
Tom,

The Minolta 7i syncs that fast? Most DSLRs get banding on the image
due to the focal plane shutter. I shoot with a Nikon D1X, which is
an exception to this. I've sync'ed with it up to 1/4000th of a
second.

Duncan C
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
 
Sorry I haven't replied, too many holiday guests. I don't really know what to tell you. At minimum aperature in manual, I just kept increasing the shutter speed rather than cutting power further. My point was that the B400's with this camera are relatively powerful. I haven't had them long enough to really experiment though.

Tom
Duncan C said:
Duncan C
---
GSMEarth said:
7i top sync speed is 1/2000th.
Duncan C said:
tjshaffer said:
I use a Minolta 7i with 2 B400's and umbrellas. The B400's at 1/2
power allow for 1/500 to 1/750 sec at F8 for initial portrait
shots. I wondered too if I needed more power, but the B400s seem
sufficient as I am using them. The standard stand is fine for
umbrellas, but might not be for soft box. With a boom, you
probably need the heavy duty stand. It is very heavy duty however,
not real portable.

Regards, Tom
Click to expand...
Tom,

The Minolta 7i syncs that fast? Most DSLRs get banding on the image
due to the focal plane shutter. I shoot with a Nikon D1X, which is
an exception to this. I've sync'ed with it up to 1/4000th of a
second.

Duncan C
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
Click to expand...
 
tj,

For cameras with electronic shutters, you can do this. Cameras with focal plane shutters can't sync beyond a certain fairly low shutterspeed however. My Nikon D1X has a hybrid mechanical/electronic shutter, so I can also sync with very hight shutterspeeds. (The published max shutterspeed for my D1X is 1/500th, but I've synced as fast as 1/4000th with my studio lights. At that speed the light was reduced by about 2 stops.)

Note that using fast shutterspeeds to cut down on light is tricky business. You really can't predict how much it's going to cut the light, because the light output from flashes is NOT at all even over time. It's a sharp spike, that then trails off, fairly quickly, You have to expirement to set your exposure. You should find that up to a certain point, increasing your shutterspeed has no effect on flash exposure. Then, small increases in flash speed will start to reduce the light just a little. At a certain point (which depends on the discharge rate of your flash) small increases in flash speed will have a dramatic affect on your exposure. Note also that a flash's discharge rate varies with it's power setting, so you'll have to re-do your expirements for each flash at each power setting. Like I said, it's tricky business.

You might have better luck investing in a couple of neutral density filters. You could gat a 1 stop and a 2 stop filter. Stack them, and you could reduce your light 3 stops. It'll make your viewfinder a little darker, but it's much more straightforward to use.

Duncan C
-------
tjshaffer said:
Tom
Duncan C said:
Duncan C
---
GSMEarth said:
7i top sync speed is 1/2000th.
Duncan C said:
tjshaffer said:
I use a Minolta 7i with 2 B400's and umbrellas. The B400's at 1/2
power allow for 1/500 to 1/750 sec at F8 for initial portrait
shots. I wondered too if I needed more power, but the B400s seem
sufficient as I am using them. The standard stand is fine for
umbrellas, but might not be for soft box. With a boom, you
probably need the heavy duty stand. It is very heavy duty however,
not real portable.

Regards, Tom
Click to expand...
Tom,

The Minolta 7i syncs that fast? Most DSLRs get banding on the image
due to the focal plane shutter. I shoot with a Nikon D1X, which is
an exception to this. I've sync'ed with it up to 1/4000th of a
second.

Duncan C
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
 
Thanks for the comment regarding shutter speeds. I will experiment with power reduction and moving the lights back. My initial trials seemed to produce a nice soft light for some holiday family portraits, so I hadn't experimented further. Family is my low cost modeling for experimentation purposes.

Regards, Tom
Duncan C. said:
tj,

For cameras with electronic shutters, you can do this. Cameras with
focal plane shutters can't sync beyond a certain fairly low
shutterspeed however. My Nikon D1X has a hybrid
mechanical/electronic shutter, so I can also sync with very hight
shutterspeeds. (The published max shutterspeed for my D1X is
1/500th, but I've synced as fast as 1/4000th with my studio lights.
At that speed the light was reduced by about 2 stops.)

Note that using fast shutterspeeds to cut down on light is tricky
business. You really can't predict how much it's going to cut the
light, because the light output from flashes is NOT at all even
over time. It's a sharp spike, that then trails off, fairly
quickly, You have to expirement to set your exposure. You should
find that up to a certain point, increasing your shutterspeed has
no effect on flash exposure. Then, small increases in flash speed
will start to reduce the light just a little. At a certain point
(which depends on the discharge rate of your flash) small increases
in flash speed will have a dramatic affect on your exposure. Note
also that a flash's discharge rate varies with it's power setting,
so you'll have to re-do your expirements for each flash at each
power setting. Like I said, it's tricky business.

You might have better luck investing in a couple of neutral density
filters. You could gat a 1 stop and a 2 stop filter. Stack them,
and you could reduce your light 3 stops. It'll make your viewfinder
a little darker, but it's much more straightforward to use.

Duncan C
-------
Click to expand...
 
Tom,

Since you're shooting with Bees, why not dial back the power? If you're at 1/2 power, you've got 4 more stops of power reduction (or should I say 4 LESS stops?)

Duncan C
-------
tjshaffer said:
Regards, Tom
Duncan C. said:
tj,

For cameras with electronic shutters, you can do this. Cameras with
focal plane shutters can't sync beyond a certain fairly low
shutterspeed however. My Nikon D1X has a hybrid
mechanical/electronic shutter, so I can also sync with very hight
shutterspeeds. (The published max shutterspeed for my D1X is
1/500th, but I've synced as fast as 1/4000th with my studio lights.
At that speed the light was reduced by about 2 stops.)

Note that using fast shutterspeeds to cut down on light is tricky
business. You really can't predict how much it's going to cut the
light, because the light output from flashes is NOT at all even
over time. It's a sharp spike, that then trails off, fairly
quickly, You have to expirement to set your exposure. You should
find that up to a certain point, increasing your shutterspeed has
no effect on flash exposure. Then, small increases in flash speed
will start to reduce the light just a little. At a certain point
(which depends on the discharge rate of your flash) small increases
in flash speed will have a dramatic affect on your exposure. Note
also that a flash's discharge rate varies with it's power setting,
so you'll have to re-do your expirements for each flash at each
power setting. Like I said, it's tricky business.

You might have better luck investing in a couple of neutral density
filters. You could gat a 1 stop and a 2 stop filter. Stack them,
and you could reduce your light 3 stops. It'll make your viewfinder
a little darker, but it's much more straightforward to use.

Duncan C
-------
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
 
It has been my experience that the shutter speed had no, or very little, effect upon the exposure when shooting strobes in a studio setting. I have check this my Minolta IV-F flash meter using one light setting and various shutter speed settings on the meter..........all the readings came out the same, or nearly so.

The theory is that the strobe puts out X amount of light for a brief moment and the makes the exposure. As long as that occurs sometime during the open shutter period that is the exposure, whether the shutter is open for a long period or a short period of time. This should hold up in a total darkness situation.

Where the variables come into play has to be with what ever ambient light there is in the studio, i.e. room lights, modeling lights, reflected light. Another possibility could be that the strobe output is not absolutely consistant from flash to flash.

Now when shooting in a contiuous light set up, or a mix of strobe and continuous ambient light.........shutter speeds play an integral part of the exposure.

George
http://www.pbase.com/law
 
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