Don't shoot with a DSLR....

pdqgp · Dec 31, 2002

or you'll want to run out and get one.

just visited a friend with a D100 and even the lowest light, worst underexposed, even the bad pictures.....of which perhpas was one or two...were beautiful.

It's like a nice expensive sports car....perhaps you can afford it, but can you justify it? I just can't....yet.....but want one soon.

tim

--
-tim
Sony 717, Nikon 995 & Konica KD400Z
Accessories....tons of course
pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

D.R. Barnhart · Dec 31, 2002

I really want one and have been close a couple of times. It's just the groans I get from my significant other that keeps me in check.

I'm still drooling though, tell me just a little more...

D.R.Barnhart

Shutter. · Dec 31, 2002

That is not want I want/need to hear right now...

I want one desperately, and I can't afford a sports car either.

Soon. Very soon. Hopefully very very soon. It all depends on which route I go.... Nikon? Canon? Kodak?

My 707 will be relegated to my trusty sidekick, who I still wouldn't go anywhere without, but would need to know when to keep it's mouth shut. ;-)

--
Jim Fuglestad

Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase. -Percy W. Harris
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

Gordon W · Dec 31, 2002

Yeah, I did this very thing, Tim, when a friend bought a D60. I ran right to the camera store and ran right back out again after I added up what it would cost to buy the lenses necessary to make it equivalent to the F707 I was also considering at the time and what I'd have had would still be less than what I can get from my film cameras that are already paid for.

DSLRs are definitely nice but they are still grossly overpriced compared with what you can get with film. For instance, I can buy a Mamiya 645 medium format locally that comes with an 80mm/2.8 normal lens for $867USD compared to a D100 with no lens at all for $2,200USD and the 645 image will have detail that will blow the socks off a D100 file.

Just to give you the other side of reality. ;-)

I won't be sorely tempted myself until digital technology reaches 14-15Mp or the equivalent Foveon for the price of a current 5Mp prosumer camera and includes a lens along with the body.

I've got a bit of a wait. Until then I'm quite happy with my little F707. ;-)

Gordon
--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.

ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

Matthew Cromer · Dec 31, 2002

No doubt about it.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

Neoender · Dec 31, 2002

Ya, no kidding. I played with a friend's D100 and i was like, WOW!

THEN, I tried out another friend's Canon 1D and my jaw hit the floor. That thing is nothing short of AMAZING. Feels like the thing is carved from a block of steel, NOTHING loose at all. Takes pictures faster than I can push the shutter release and noise at even ISO 1600 is minimal. And the IS lens on it.. incredible. Then again, it did cost her 10K for the whole setup.

pdqgp · Dec 31, 2002

funny....wife and I kick around the things we want and need. wants usually are where the debates play in.

last year I wanted a new car...drove a vette....got the big OH NO....end up with a nice SUV.

this year we needed to finish the basement. the baby and kids eventually will run that floor I'm sure.

this year I wanted a plasma tv...don't watch so much but when we do, I want perfection. like DSLR's one year ago, grossly overpriced....

that DLSR is on the radar babe and I'm locked on!!!

--
-tim
Sony 717, Nikon 995 & Konica KD400Z
Accessories....tons of course
pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

Shutter. · Dec 31, 2002

No DVD. No plasma. 8 year-old stereo. A kitchen that needs major remodeling.

1 new computer. Kids fed. Quaint but small house. Fantastic friends.

2 cars 2 years old.

Need nothing. Want little.

Can't afford a DSLR, but I'll find a way. Soon. There is no stopping me now. ACK!

--
Jim Fuglestad

Skill in photography is acquired by practice and not by purchase. -Percy W. Harris
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

Negative287 · Dec 31, 2002

Ok, let me add some fuel to this fire! He isn't kidding... I ended up selling my F707 (with Extra Battery and 3 128 MB MS) and my Sony Digital Camcorder to get close to enough money to buy the D100... Then I saved for a couple weeks and came up with enough to buy it with a cheap lens (not a very good lens at all).

Anyway, I've had the D100 for 4 months now and the thing is excellent! It's fast responsive and accurate! After using it for 4 months I probably would've paid more for the camera.

--
http://www.pbase.com/elterrible

David (r00t) · Dec 31, 2002

I went to a camera store to "look" at a D100. 4 weeks later, I bought it. It is amazing. The cost over the 717 is worth it. Trust me. You only get to take that shot once, price should not be a factor.

I have missed many moments, no more. I now capture life as it happens.

--
David

My galleries:
http://www.imagestation.com/member/?name=r00t&c=201

Mark J · Dec 31, 2002

I feel the exact same way Tim.

I just look at my photographs produced with my F717 and, I'm very pleased with the quality of the images. But then I think about the possibilities and.... the expense and I just can't justify it right now.
Too man other priorities like.... food

Have a wonderful 2003 Tim!

Mark J

Matthew Cromer · Dec 31, 2002

It's a camera, it takes pictures. It's a very nice camera. It has a lot of things it does better than a 717 and a lot of things it does less well or not at all.

Don't plan on buying a D100 or D60 and some inexpensive zoom lenses and getting better shots than you will with a 717.

If you can afford it, and you want it, and you can buy the glass you need, go for it! If not, use the tools you have today. You can make some great pictures with your S85 or Sony 717 or other "consumer" camera.

Look at the winning challenge pictures, look at your favorite photographers in this forum. You don't need a dSLR to make wonderful images. You can be a real photographer and still use the Sony. And, truth be told, buying a dSLR won't magically make your photography better, even if you need to do less to control noise.

Will I end up getting a D100 or another dSLR at some point? Sure, something along those lines. I'll probably wait until there is enough of a resolution improvement over my 717 to do it though, and at a price I can afford ($8,000 for a D1s ain't it!). Maybe the 14N when that price gets down to a couple thousand dollars. Maybe something else.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

John Coggi · Jan 1, 2003

I also have D60/D100 envy, but, hey, for 1/3 the price I'm quite content with my F717. Also remember that the F717 can make movies, shoot in complete darkness, and do macro-- things the DSLRs simply can't do or require two lenses. Still, the low noise of the dSLR is amazing when compared to the F717. For fun, check out these two sunset pics:

SONY F717 (sharpness 0)
http://www.pbase.com/image/9839082/large

and

Canon D60 w/28-200 mm USM zoom (sharpness 1)
http://www.pbase.com/image/9815766/large

in the "large" pbase size, the difference in noise is indistinguishable. But click on the "original" size and you'll see what $2,800 buys you. ;-)

John

John Coggi · Jan 1, 2003

Oops, forgot to mention the F717 picture was taken with a linear polarizer and UV filter. The D60 has a UV filter (or Skylight, not sure which).

John

Greg Gebhardt · Jan 1, 2003

--
For you everyday, carry everwhere camera, the 717 beats my DXX cameras.

Greg Gebhardt Nikon D1 & D1x. Sony 717, Epson 2200 & PS7
Jacksonville, Florida

Matthew Cromer · Jan 1, 2003

The 717 pic was very clean in your comparison shot, even at 100%.

I ran a despeckle operation on it in photoshop, and the resulting shot more or less matched the smoothness of the D60 image in my estimation. I was not expecting this.

With your permission, I'd be glad to upload it for comparison, to see if folks agree the shots looks comparable.

BTW it is quite easy to control noise in this kind of shot. Just overexpose, but not enough to blow out the brightest areas of the picture. Then bring down the levels in post-processing. This works remarkably well for many types of images.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

snooter · Jan 1, 2003

Tim,

I also used a DSLR, a 1D to be exact, and that camera has ruined me in a "Lord of the Rings" type of sense. I love my 707, but that 1D is just literally amazing. That autofocus system on that camera is just amazing. Anyone who thinks that someone who knows what they are doing can't take better pictures with that camera/dSLR (it is all the person behind the camera idea) probably has never used a camera like that. Will it make you a great photographer, absolutely not. Can it help you, I really think so. In the hands of knowledgeable people, the dSLRs are incredible.

I'm still thinking about the complete lack of shutter lag on that camera.

I'll be adding a dSLR to my camera bag one day, but my 707 will still be there also. The downside to the DSLR is the lugging of heavy equipment. Canon L glass is really, really heavy, and I would hate to stick crappy glass on the end of those cameras (which is another downside to them--the glass gets really really expensive fast). The 300mm/2.8 lens I used weighed about 6 pounds itself and seemed to be between 30-36 inches long (plus the lens hood hood). Not easy to lug around inconspicuously.

Good luck with your dSLR fund.
Happy New Year,
Mike

--
--Mike Ezell

Matthew Cromer · Jan 1, 2003

Personally using the 717 has "ruined me" to ever wanting to shoot with a 707 again, simply because of AF performance.

Yes I have used an F100 and yes the AF performance of that camera is to die for (same AF as a D1 I believe). I was smart enough to put the camera down quickly so I would still be willing to use my 717. LOL.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

John Coggi · Jan 1, 2003

Matthew,

Hmm, I've never tried a despeckle operation by itself. I typically run the image through "de noise" Photoshop action before printing a photo from my F717 at sizes 5x7" or greater. This does a great job at reducing noise too. See:

http://www.2morrow.dk/75ppi/coolpix/actions/

Feel free to upload the images for comparison. Keep in mind the shots were not made for this kind of comparison. They were made 10 minutes apart (10 minuthes makes a difference near sunset), at different zooms, by two different photographers. Also, the F717 had a polarizer on it and the D60 did not. Other than that I'm interested in seeing what you've done!

Thanks,

John

Matthew Cromer · Jan 1, 2003

(warning -- big file!)

http://www.pbase.com/image/10006833/original/

my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

Don't shoot with a DSLR....

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