Yes long as it is not ahead of the technical sweet spot. There is no reason it does not.
People did not want to belive 15MP 50D sensor has better resolution than 5D but that eventually proved to be true at base ISO by many comparison tests.
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I thought I will never buy a full frame camera.
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People did not want to belive 15MP 50D sensor has better resolution than 5D but that eventually proved to be true at base ISO by many comparison tests.
You got kidding me. I don't bother to put them together. But if you check closely, 5D clearly beats 50D hands down in both DPR and IR lab tests.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos50d/26
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/29
50D even not close to 5D in above DPR lab in raw format. You need to understand not every pixel is the same among different cameras, among different crop formats. Otherwise do you still suggest 12mp P&S has the same fine details of 12mp APS-C?
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos50d/26
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/29
50D even not close to 5D in above DPR lab in raw format. You need to understand not every pixel is the same among different cameras, among different crop formats. Otherwise do you still suggest 12mp P&S has the same fine details of 12mp APS-C?
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gipper51
Veteran Member
and I see this thread that started as an interesting, civilized conversation has gotten to 100+ posts of this BS again.
Good grief...I'm starting to wonder why I come to this forum anymore...
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Good grief...I'm starting to wonder why I come to this forum anymore...
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As someone already pointed out, OP is not in intention to get Nikon D800 but actually using it to bash current Canon FF models and he has not even tried them.
Can you details what BS of these posts about? Different opinions and debates are not welcomed? Among so many FF vs Crop threads in these months, it's clear who jumped into every thread without even owning and experiencing FF models while people like me do own and experience both FF and crop and sharing honest opinions.
If you don't' like the debating natures of threads in gear forums, don't even jump in.
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
Can you details what BS of these posts about? Different opinions and debates are not welcomed? Among so many FF vs Crop threads in these months, it's clear who jumped into every thread without even owning and experiencing FF models while people like me do own and experience both FF and crop and sharing honest opinions.
If you don't' like the debating natures of threads in gear forums, don't even jump in.
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OK, I give 60D a bit of more lights, and both processed to the same size 2000 pixel wide.
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/1772541/canon-eos-5d_img_6542?inalbum=landscape
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/1772542/canon-eos-60d_img_1535?inalbum=landscape
Here are snapshots of similar part of the scenes at full 2000-pixel resolution. I give 70 sharpness to 5D and 90 to 60D file in LR3. 5D one is a bit of too sharp but clearly show resolving more finer details (which is detail vs noise ratio). If I compare them at their respective 100% cropped size, the gap is noticeable bigger. 60D is sharp at APS-C level but FF 5D is crazily sharper, a bit of too sharp as KR said when view 5D photos on screen.
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/1772541/canon-eos-5d_img_6542?inalbum=landscape
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/1772542/canon-eos-60d_img_1535?inalbum=landscape
Here are snapshots of similar part of the scenes at full 2000-pixel resolution. I give 70 sharpness to 5D and 90 to 60D file in LR3. 5D one is a bit of too sharp but clearly show resolving more finer details (which is detail vs noise ratio). If I compare them at their respective 100% cropped size, the gap is noticeable bigger. 60D is sharp at APS-C level but FF 5D is crazily sharper, a bit of too sharp as KR said when view 5D photos on screen.
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A few more samples. 5D is crazily sharp. I am glad 21mp 5D2 almost matches even at per-pixel level at 21mp compared to 12.8mp 5D1. I hope the new 22mp 5DX will keep weak AA filter and keep this per-pixel sharpness but excel in every other field such as DR (read noise at base ISO and highlight headroom), high ISO...
A Gloomy day without sunlight in Grand Canyon NP. Increased saturation and contrast in large degree that might not in everyone's taste.
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A Gloomy day without sunlight in Grand Canyon NP. Increased saturation and contrast in large degree that might not in everyone's taste.
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http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
It started with nice exchange with Apewithacamera and few others but then THAT usual clown hyjacked the thread even I tried to avoid respond to him.
I was sharing my thoughts with forum friends everything I said is what I believed at the time I wrote them. Go away if you don't like to hear it. (that clown not you).
I was sharing my thoughts with forum friends everything I said is what I believed at the time I wrote them. Go away if you don't like to hear it. (that clown not you).
I guess some people are so poor in math they could not tell 15MP is more than 12MP.
Surefire Photo
Active member
Not going to comment on most of the debates & discussions in this thread - there are many amazing tools out there & it's the photographer's job to find the best ones for their budget & style and use that to the fullest. That said, the Nikon 14-24 is simply one of the finest pieces of glass on the plant - be careful with that one, it has a tendency to get glued on to the body of many shooters 
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http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_elph320hs
Canon ELPH 320HS has whopping 16mp, one more MP than 15mp 50D and about 4mp than 5D, so it will resolve more details on your logic, LOL.
When you will learn resolution is not equal to fine details?
When you will learn not every pixel is the same among different cameras and among different crop formats?
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
Canon ELPH 320HS has whopping 16mp, one more MP than 15mp 50D and about 4mp than 5D, so it will resolve more details on your logic, LOL.
When you will learn resolution is not equal to fine details?
When you will learn not every pixel is the same among different cameras and among different crop formats?
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Great Bustard
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If the lens were infinitely sharp, then, yes, 15 MP would resolve more than 12 MP. However, the enlargement factor of FF vs 1.6x will overwhelm the small magnification factor of 15 MP vs 12 MP for most, if not all, lenses.
Here is 18mp 7D vs 12.8mp 5D1 in DXO lens comparison (not even 21mp 5D2)
24L/1.4 II prime on 7D vs 24-70L/2.8 zoom on 5D. 5D with a zoom still outresolves 7D with a prime, wow!
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/ (lens1) 473 (lens2) 165 (brand1) Canon (camera1) 619 (brand2) Canon (camera2) 176
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24L/1.4 II prime on 7D vs 24-70L/2.8 zoom on 5D. 5D with a zoom still outresolves 7D with a prime, wow!
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/ (lens1) 473 (lens2) 165 (brand1) Canon (camera1) 619 (brand2) Canon (camera2) 176
No such lens.
The same lens on 5D will perform better on the same lens on 7D/60D/50D. I have tried my best lens 24mm TS-E II (which is one of the sharpest prime in Canon lineup) on 5D and 60D. When viewed at 100% size, or downsampling to the same 3000 pixel wide, 12.8mp 5D1 still beats 18mp 60D when I fit the subject into the same portion of the frame.
No every pixel is the same among cameras, and among different crop factors. FF is more tolerable than crop on lens.
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photog7320
Senior Member
DPReview Resolution Test
50D Absolute Extinction
H 2250 2700
V 2200 2700
5D Absolute Extinction
H 2300 2500
V 2000 2500
Shouldn't the 5D be 1.6x better due to 'enlargement factor'?
You guys have latched onto this theory that enlargement factor limits the resolution of crop sensors. It doesn't, at least not yet, because lenses easily out resolve modern sensors. It affects detail contrast, but that is easily restored in camera or in post.
That's why when Faint posts test photos, or I post side by side DPR and IR samples, you guys can't tell the difference between formats. If the difference you claim exists actually existed then you would never fail this test. Instead you never pass it.
I'm fairly confident that when D800 studio samples are available that anyone could pass a side by side test with a 5D2, and certainly with a 5D, when scaled to D800 dimensions. That tells you that resolution is the issue, not format. Format is only indirectly related, i.e. right now it's technically feasible to pack 36 MP on a 35mm sensor but not on an APS-C sensor. Actually, 45 MP would clearly be feasible judging from 7D files, and I wish Canon would answer Nikon with a 45 MP FF body.
No..Shouldn't the 5D be 1.6x better due to 'enlargement factor'?
photog7320
Senior Member
I can't get these to zoom to 2000px. Why don't you just post the RAW files for comparison if you are serious about learning how to extract the most out of each, and what differences contributed to the final result?
You still didn't correct the 60D histogram. At least as far as these crops are concerned, that's the bulk of the problem in your perception of sharpness. Even after correcting for this I found the 60D crop benefited from a second sharpening pass. I'm not familiar with LR3 (I use PS) but if you were using a normal USM then 70 might have been too much for the 5D while 90 was too little for the 60D. However, I find that odd because in tests with the same lens the 5D generally does not end up sharper than a 60D or 7D. Could be diffraction (f/11 was not needed) or lens differences.
Never the less, after levels and sharpening the 60D crop looks as good or better with one note: there is greater differentiation in the tones in the back most mountain in the 5D shot. This is not due to format but to exposure.
Honestly, why don't you just tripod mount the two bodies and shoot a test chart or map or local landscape scene, and honestly process the RAW files each to its best? If you control all your variables you'll end up finding the exact same thing Faint has found in his tests.
JamieTux
Senior Member
OK, firstly, it is more like 40% (15mp/36mp) so what do I do with MOST of my print?
Secondly, I now have a different image!
To me your argument doesn't make sense. If you're going to throw away almost 60% of your image why wouldn't you shoot full frame and give yourself the freedom of making the best crop later? If you want the best overall image why wouldn't you use a longer lens on full frame mode?
I personally don't spend more money on ff gear just to crop it.
Finally if image quality is sensor size independent in all situations why is the D4 significantly more expensive than the D800? Is it just for a few more fps? They have the same af, metering, are both dual card, both do the same level of video, etc.
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Well, that's not my experience going from a 20D to 50D to 7D. I need to be more aware of camera shake (magnified by more pixels), diffraction problems (could use f16 easily with 20D, I keep away from it with 7D). Of course, that is assuming I am going to take advantage of the higher resolution. If I compare the results at 20D size then yes, you don't need to be more careful, but that also defeats the purpose of having all those pixels.
sparkling elk
Leading Member
just my opinion: we know how much optics count regarding IQ. you can take a top lens and a ok-camera. or you take a top camera and a so-so lens. in many cases the first combination makes more sense. thats why i keep my old 1D3. the few top lenses i own makes the 5 years old 10mp-1D3 shine, not vice versa.
resolution of the G1X is great, but it's optics seem to be comparable to a cheap efs kit zoom.
i'd call it a (very nice) travel solution.
the new fuji system looks serious with it's first 3 primes. give it 2-3 years and it might become an alternative for many photographers (to supplement or replace heavy equipment).
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e.aland
The ASP-C is cheaper, lenses for ASP-C cheaper and lighter.
More over there are good wide-angle lenses for crop. For FF there are not.
So crop offers better possibilities for both wide- and tele- photo.
I got a 5D mk2, and think that was a mistake. I should have bought Nikon D7000.
More over there are good wide-angle lenses for crop. For FF there are not.
So crop offers better possibilities for both wide- and tele- photo.
I got a 5D mk2, and think that was a mistake. I should have bought Nikon D7000.
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