NEX-7 - a great smaller landscape camera?

Hello all-

I'm a longtime Eastern US landscape photographer (in Vermont, landscape often means semi-macro - too many trees to get the grand Western vistas, although the trees themselves make nice subjects). I've been looking for a smaller, lighter camera (than my big ol' Nikon D3x) for longer hikes - not only would the camera be smaller, it could use a much lighter tripod.

I've tried a number of options, and the most satisfactory so far has been the Panasonic GH2, which is "almost there", for my uses, with three notable bugs. The big issue is that it doesn't have enough dynamic range (I'm more concerned with DR than resolution - the GH2's resolution is pretty darned good). The second issue is that I find the controls clunky, and the third is that I don't especially like the touchscreen (which is the only way to move the AF point, among other functions), plus it's not an especially good screen for image review.

Lurking here and reading reviews (and handling a real NEX-7 briefly at PhotoPlus), it seems like an NEX-7 may be the camera for me...

I've never seen a big print from one, but reviewers say the DR's darned good (maybe not quite D3x level, but much better than Micro 4/3)...

The control system seems as good as any pro DSLR's - a little different, perhaps, but as accessible and useful.

No touchscreen - everything is controlled by buttons and dials, with a top-quality screen (and an even better viewfinder) for looking at images.

Does this coincide with the views of people with real-world experience with the NEX-7?

What would some of you NEX-7 users recommend for lenses? I'd like to have at least one AF native zoom, because zooms are actually very useful for precise framing, and for using the camera as a "digital sketchpad". I also want to begin experimenting with the video functions - I have some ideas about moving images in the landscape... I wish Sony had a high-quality normal zoom out there, and if I get the NEX-7, I'll probably be early in line when it appears. It looks like my choices for now are the 18-55 or one of the two 18-200's...

Beyond that, I'm open to adapter lenses - sadly, my Nikkors are all big, heavy "G" lenses (no aperture control on the lens). Leica lenses are probably a bit expensive... Cosinas? Zeiss (some of them are more reasonably priced)? Canon FD lenses? Older Nikkors?

-Dan

I have had an NEX-7 for only a few days now and am still getting used to it but I will attempt to respond as honestly as I can from my initial thoughts...

Dan Wells said:

Hello all-

I'm a longtime Eastern US landscape photographer (in Vermont, landscape often means semi-macro - too many trees to get the grand Western vistas, although the trees themselves make nice subjects). I've been looking for a smaller, lighter camera (than my big ol' Nikon D3x) for longer hikes - not only would the camera be smaller, it could use a much lighter tripod.

I've tried a number of options, and the most satisfactory so far has been the Panasonic GH2, which is "almost there", for my uses, with three notable bugs. The big issue is that it doesn't have enough dynamic range (I'm more concerned with DR than resolution - the GH2's resolution is pretty darned good). The second issue is that I find the controls clunky, and the third is that I don't especially like the touchscreen (which is the only way to move the AF point, among other functions), plus it's not an especially good screen for image review.

Click to expand...

I also used to own a GH2 and agree with you on what you say about it.

Dan Wells said:

Lurking here and reading reviews (and handling a real NEX-7 briefly at PhotoPlus), it seems like an NEX-7 may be the camera for me...

I've never seen a big print from one, but reviewers say the DR's darned good (maybe not quite D3x level, but much better than Micro 4/3)...

Click to expand...

Yes I have found that the DR is pretty good, better than the GH2.

Dan Wells said:

The control system seems as good as any pro DSLR's - a little different, perhaps, but as accessible and useful.

Click to expand...

Nope, the controls kind've suck to be honest. They will take getting used to and I will but for the time being I am somewhat dissapointed in them.

Dan Wells said:

No touchscreen - everything is controlled by buttons and dials, with a top-quality screen (and an even better viewfinder) for looking at images.

Click to expand...

One good thing is there is a lot that can be customized in the buttons. The viewfinder has been overrated. It's about as good as either the Olympus or Panasonic micro 4/3 add ons.

Dan Wells said:

Does this coincide with the views of people with real-world experience with the NEX-7?

What would some of you NEX-7 users recommend for lenses? I'd like to have at least one AF native zoom, because zooms are actually very useful for precise framing, and for using the camera as a "digital sketchpad". I also want to begin experimenting with the video functions - I have some ideas about moving images in the landscape... I wish Sony had a high-quality normal zoom out there, and if I get the NEX-7, I'll probably be early in line when it appears. It looks like my choices for now are the 18-55 or one of the two 18-200's...

Click to expand...

What appears to be the biggest drawback so far is lack of good lenses for the NEX system. I purchased the camera with the 16 (decent lens but not as good as some of the Panasonic or Olympus lenses), the Zeiss 24 (great lens) and the 18-200 (another decent lens but nothing great). After that there is a problem...very few other lenses especially fast primes. Hopefully this will change in the months ahead.

Dan Wells said:

Beyond that, I'm open to adapter lenses - sadly, my Nikkors are all big, heavy "G" lenses (no aperture control on the lens). Leica lenses are probably a bit expensive... Cosinas? Zeiss (some of them are more reasonably priced)? Canon FD lenses? Older Nikkors?

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An adapter may be a good solution but will add a lot of size and weight to the sytem, something which presumably you were looking to get away from when considering an NEX camera to begin with.

I am actually happy with the camera for what it is...a small very good camera that produces some very very nice images. However, I would never consider it to be a top DSLR replacement..too many limitations in my opinion.

Hi Dan,

I am also in the NE region and often go on outings in VT for landscape purposes. I recently got the NEX-7 with Zeiss 24. Thus far I have found this combination to offer excellent resolution, color and DR for landscapes (note: while the Zeiss truly shines in the f/1.8 to f/5.6 with an f/4 sweet spot, it also does a superb job at smaller apertures).

Beyond the Zeiss, I would say there are no native e-mount lenses that are ideal for landscapes. To this end, I would recommend getting the LA-EA2 along with an A-mount Sigma 8-16, which has stellar resolution figures according to Imatest results (see photozone.de). I do not have this lens but am considering it. While Sony has an ultra-wide angle zoom in its e-mount roadmap, I think it is unlikely that this new offering will exceed the Sigma's performance if it is to remain reasonably priced.

Beyond that, if you are still bent on using a zoom, Sony will release a "G" lens (high quality) standard zoom in 2013 which will presumably be a 17-50 f/2.8 according most speculation thus far.

Hope this helps.

I just picked my 7 up this morning and it's staring at me on my desk here at work so I can't coment yet, but I bought it with the same thought in mind.

I was going to play with extensively over the next week and see if it fits the bill (10 day return policy). I'll try and get some landscape shots done this weekend as a test and post back here. I am still torn about taking the 7 back and buying a 5dii or D700 used and a 5n as my walkabout camera. Was worried about the controls on the 5n with gloves on since I do a lot of backcountry trips out here in CO. the 7 is an expensive little bugger, hopefully it lives up to its price.
--
LB

Yes, with a Leica 21 mm on the nex 7 I can say the raw images are as good or better than the Nikon D700 images that I have taken in the past.

Some cityscapes at night with NEX7 and Zeiss 24 f1.8.
Uncompressed files are really astonishing, deep and full of details.

Lots of images...

The problem, with DPr, is than you can shot with a P&S or a zillion $ camera, the photos all look the same on my screen.
--
Philippe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miwok/

I do agree, Hi res cameras and lenses don't deserve internet JPEG files.
Images needs to be viewed uncompressed and full sized or on large prints.

Miwok said:

Lots of images...

The problem, with DPr, is than you can shot with a P&S or a zillion $ camera, the photos all look the same on my screen.
--
Philippe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miwok/

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I love the NEX 7 but after using the 5DMK11 I find the limited lens selection difficult to live with!

I hope you enjoy the NEX 7, it's a great camera bit IMO let down (at the moment) by lack of e mount lenses

Ian

Seabassius said:

I just picked my 7 up this morning and it's staring at me on my desk here at work so I can't coment yet, but I bought it with the same thought in mind.

I was going to play with extensively over the next week and see if it fits the bill (10 day return policy). I'll try and get some landscape shots done this weekend as a test and post back here. I am still torn about taking the 7 back and buying a 5dii or D700 used and a 5n as my walkabout camera. Was worried about the controls on the 5n with gloves on since I do a lot of backcountry trips out here in CO. the 7 is an expensive little bugger, hopefully it lives up to its price.
--
LB

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I wish there was a way to attach a 16x24" print to a forum post That said, Loie's images do show really nice composition (totally independent of the camera - he could have composed beautifully even on a phone) and tonality (largely independent of the camera - he has an eye for nice light - but cameras can screw up tonality, and the NEX did not)...

Dan Wells said:

Beyond that, I'm open to adapter lenses - sadly, my Nikkors are all big, heavy "G" lenses (no aperture control on the lens). Leica lenses are probably a bit expensive... Cosinas? Zeiss (some of them are more reasonably priced)? Canon FD lenses? Older Nikkors?

-Dan

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Hi Dan. If I were you, I'd first order the kit with the SEL1855. You only pay a small amount more for for a lens that is not great, but not bad either.

Try it out.

Then decide if it is good enough or if you want to go more high end.

If you need better quality, you could either wait for the announced G-lens for E-Mount, or use the A-Mount adapter and go with a high end SAL lens.

The camera is good enough for a replacement. And even with "heavy" lenses you still have a lighter-weight configuration, because of the NEX-7.

Dan -

I bought a NEX-7 pretty much exactly for same reason - a lightweight, compact option for high-res landscape shooting. That's pretty much all I used my 5D2 for, and while I loved it to death I began to realize that there was nothing I was particularly attached to about the camera itself beyond the awesome sensor. It was more or less just a digital back. The 7 appears, at low ISO speeds, to pack in just as much detail as the 5D2, and it does it at less than half the weight and a fraction of the size. The sacrifice that must be made is acknowledging that in order to truly make the most of it, you're still going to be using fairly big lenses (SLR glass with clunky adapters - plenty of RF lenses will work fine, but a depressingly large number of them are heavily nerfed by the flange distance and lack of compensation for it). A lot of them will look silly on the NEX, but from a packing and carrying perspective, the size/weight savings on the body are still fantastic. And, while the manual controls take some getting used to, they more than compete with those of a typical SLR.

You'll find loads of suggestions of MF lenses around here, but if I make one specific to you: a Zeiss Contax 35-70mm f/3.4 (C/Y mount). It's not initially a useful zoom range on APS-C (53-105mm), but I find it to be a pretty good landscape zoom as long as I have a wide angle option to complement it. And as far as I'm concerned, it's the very best standard zoom ever made in terms of IQ - super sharp, awesome contrast, great colors, that mythical Zeiss "pop." And on top of all that, it has a dedicated macro mode at the short end that works very nicely. It will, of course, look silly on a NEX-7 (and they run about $450-$650), but if you're willing to overlook that fact it'll be totally worth it.

The long and the short of it is that at the moment, if resolution is your goal, you'd better be ready to do a lot of manual focusing. Even the 24/1.8 doesn't quite live up to the NEX-7's sensor, though it is pretty good. As far as native lenses go, only time will tell.

Leica R lenses can often be found as bargains. The Leica Makro Elmarit 2.8/60mm is great lens with beautiful Leica rendering. It is bitingly sharp at infinty and closeup/macro range. Good used ones can be found the Euro 300 range. For Leica R lenses I would not only look at ebay but also in brick and mortar camera shops.

Dan Wells said:

Dan Wells said:

Beyond that, I'm open to adapter lenses - sadly, my Nikkors are all big, heavy "G" lenses (no aperture control on the lens). Leica lenses are probably a bit expensive... Cosinas? Zeiss (some of them are more reasonably priced)? Canon FD lenses? Older Nikkors?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Dan, if you do decide to get the NEX-7, you will still be able to control the aperture on your G Nikkors. The Fotodiox E mount to F mount adapter has an aperture control pin which lets you control the aperture. The downside is that there are no markings, so you can never be 100% sure what aperture you are shooting at. The G lenses still have a mechanical aperture control, albeit without an aperture ring, and the adapter takes advantage of that.
Hope that helps you with your decision!

Well, the NEX7 is a great camera, just consider if you use one of the 18-200 lenses, your package will almost be as big and heavy as a small DSLR like D3100 plus lens.
Plus, with the NEX you have to cope with really sluggish AF.

I got rid of my D300 to fund for the NEX7 because I didn't want to carry around heavy equipment while on vacation. While this works for the combo NEX-5 plus 18-55, the NEX7 with big zoom is a different story.

Of course if you can live with the slow CDAF (I still haven't decided for myself), you gain a lot Nikon doesn't have, superb video, auto-panorama, excellent HDR, etc.

The bodies are still smaller than a DSLR, but I would agree that a superzoom is not really taking advantage of the NEX's strengths of size/weight and lens flexibility. You can do much better in a smaller package, if you're willing to accept manual focus, which is better implemented on the NEX than any APS/DX DSLR.

I owned the 5n, and took it on a number of 10-15 mile hikes, which was a huge improvement on the weight and bulk of my D700 and lenses. The lack of mirror slap also reduces your need for beefy tripod legs, so it pays weight dividends there, too. I've now got the 7, and love it -- looking forward to putting it to work further. At low ISO, the level of detail and dynamic range is remarkable.

I would second the suggestion to go ahead and get the kit lens. You may be surprised at how good it is. Same for the 16/2.8 and wide adapter. It gets a lot of bad press (mostly from people who've never used it), but at f/8 it's awfully good everywhere but the very far corners. At minimum, try it.

My most common combo, right now:

NEX-7
16/2.8 with wide adapter
Canon FDn 50/1.4
Canon FDn 100/2

I sometimes add/substitute the kit zoom, a 24/2, 35/2, 200/4, and/or some of my Nikon lenses. Lo ts of room to mix and match.

All of my Nikkors are very big/heavy (their best glass is) - I'd actually not do any better finding smaller or lighter Nikon glass I was satisfied with than NEX glass (and I'd lose the adapter capability). A D7000 (I really like having two dials) with no lens is already within 2 ounces of a NEX-7 with the 18-200, and, with any other lens, the NEX-7 with lens is lighter than the D7000 body only.

In terms of lenses that are neither heavy nor poor quality, I'd be limited to wide non-macro primes (there's a nice range from 24 to 50). I have the lovely 105 Micro-nikkor, but it's the size and weight of the NEX 18-200. Nikon USED to make some really nice modest-aperture zooms that weren't too heavy, but they never updated most of them for DX, so they're in a bit of limbo - the corners aren't good enough for high-pixel full-frame, but the focal lengths are wrong for DX.

Speaking of nice modest-aperture zooms, I hope the Sony G standard zoom isn't a f2.8 constant. It would be half the size and weight if it were f4 (or f2.8-4, or even f3.3-4.5). An 18-70 f2.8 is going to be at least the size of the 18-200 (my 24-70 f2.8 Nikkor, which is a beautiful lens - my favorite if I'm not hiking more than 5 miles - is significantly larger than the 18-200 and nearly twice as heavy). Nikon once made a very nice 18-70 f 3.5-4.5 that was only a little bigger than the Sony kit lens, although heavier (it was replaced by the 18-55 Nikkor kit lens, which isn't even CLOSE optically - all 18-55s are about the same). Someone mentioned the old Contax 35-70 Zeiss Sonnar - that was an even better example of the same type of lens - optically excellent, but with a modest aperture keeping the size down. If that lens had been half a stop faster, it would have been twice the weight...

-Dan

The lightweight, high quality way to cover this range on the NEX is by combining the kit zoom with a longer MF tele or two.

I've owned the Nikkor 18-105, 18-70, 18-55, and 16-85. The Sony NEX kit zoom is as good as any, and better than most (considerably better than the 18-55). While there are advantages to some of the wide MF primes, when shooting landscapes down even one stop, the kit lens is just fine.

The Canon 100/2 is one of the best lenses I've ever shot. The 105/2.5 Nikkor is virtually as good, and considerably lighter and better handling on the NEX than a 105/2.8VR (and to be honest, better optical quality, too). For longer options from Nikon, the 135/2.8 and 200/4 AIS are very compact, and are going to be better optically than the Sony superzoom. The irony is that they're easier to use on the NEX than they are on a D5100 -- focusing is much easier, and the camera's meter still works.

I like the Olympus OM lenses. They're well regarded, usually smaller & lighter and have an easy to use stop down button on them.

you don't have to stop down a Canon FD lens......
--
http://flickrhivemind.net/User/hodad66