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D7000 disappointment

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Sorry, I can't tell a thing good or bad about those. Way too much noise, doesn't look like the ruler was at the right angle, I dunno, I just can't tell anything.

What should I be looking for?
 
Hi again.

I'm not sure where to start any reply here, but I'll try. Perhaps with the last comment.

I am surprised by that fine tuning is different for different light sources. I'm not sure why I would expect it to be different as I haven't seen it in any previous cameras, and I wouldn't expect any newer camera to be anything less. So maybe I'm missing something here. If so I'm ready.

As far as different autofocus methods, perhaps. I made the mistake of buying the camera just before leaving for India and not testing it. It was only in India that I noticed the problem and was trying different ways to alleviate it.

Finally thanks for the compliment about the pictures. I posted what I could for those I met in India and have a computer so they could copy them for their own use. I also made some prints and returned back to give them to some of the street vendors and those I met in the tea houses.

A bit of clarification here for this post and my impressions. The images I get from this camera just seem 'soft', like the focus is just off enough that is lacks the crispness I think should be there. When I use liveview to manual focus, the sharpness is there and I'm happy with it. But anytime I'm using the viewfinder, I just have no faith the pictures will be anything but soft.

I don't want to turn this into a science project and I don't like hijacking another users post. I do appreciate the feedback and help.

Thanks
Steve
--
ssjackson
 
sjackson462000 said:
Thank you.

I'm a bit confused between what you show and what Tom H has in his D7000 book on page 392. He shows the outer sensor to be horizontal, you show vertical. I suspect you both mean the same thing, but are just showing it differently.
Click to expand...
His depiction of the size of the AF sensor array is a close approximation. The orientation though is wrong based on my mapping. Especially the non-cross type.. his depiction is not oriented correctly.
Member said:
I haven't yet converted the NEF's so I can post them, but I did take a copy of your mask and overlayed it onto one.

I started to explain all this, but if you are taking the time to help, I'll take the time to process and post....

So here goes....

First, in daylight daylight and viewfinder focus.



Second, the same with your mask.

Click to expand...
I can see you're in Aperture-priority but not the AF-Area mode....are you using AF-Area mode single? In this case it should not matter as there is plenty of Target for the AF-Sensor FOV to not get fooled
Member said:
Third, taken in tungsten light.



Finally, tunsten with liveview.



The method used was to set the focus to infinity, focus, move the lens to manual focus, and then take the picture. The camera was set to remote with the mirror delay on.
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The results are quite common...try at 85mm x 30 away from the target using AF-Area mode single and see what you get.
Member said:
Processed in CS5. I apologize for this set I forgot to remove the default sharpening settings.

Thanks
Steve

--
ssjackson
Click to expand...
 
Yeah I admit it's a bit tough, but here is what I see in general (I have another set done with the 85 1.4 and it's the same, but a bit easier to tell where the focus starts and ends), first, the daylight viewfinder focus is okay in general, but biased to the rear. Second, the tungsten just isn't really sharp at any point, but near the back it appears to be getting better. (I know that because of some testing done at the time to make adjustments). Third, the live view of the tungsten moves the focus forward, significantly.

This tends to agree with my experience as I pointed out in another post. In India pictures taken in daylight seemed okay (though not consistent), but in tungsten light and now I'm thinking about the office light (mercury), the focus was off.

I may be nuts and over analyzing this, but this is the first time in years I've had any problems and I would like to get it resolved. I appreciate your time and help.

Thanks
Steve
 
sjackson462000 said:
Hi again.
Click to expand...
Member said:
I am surprised by that fine tuning is different for different light sources. I'm not sure why I would expect it to be different as I haven't seen it in any previous cameras, and I wouldn't expect any newer camera to be anything less. So maybe I'm missing something here. If so I'm ready.
Click to expand...
It is not an uncommon phenomenon.
http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00XkAo
Not sure if it's particularly problematic in your copy.
Member said:
I don't want to turn this into a science project and I don't like hijacking another users post. I do appreciate the feedback and help.
Click to expand...
Don't worry, the only goal is to help each person get the best outcome.
 
Just opened Capture to check the settings and these are 'Single' for the AF-Area Mode.

Thanks
--
ssjackson
 
Sorry I forgot to answer another part of your past.

I did a test at 85mm x 30x. Results are similar for the general pattern, but the depth is different and worse (as I recall, I'm going to go look now). I remember moving back because the 30x seems like the worse case to be testing and is moving away from how we would normally shoot.

So you are saying these results are typical? Are they typical of all auto-focus or just the D7000. I don't have focusing issues on my D300 or D200 like this, but I haven't tested either like this, so I can't say much.

Thanks
--
ssjackson
 
sjackson462000 said:
Yeah I admit it's a bit tough, but here is what I see in general (I have another set done with the 85 1.4 and it's the same, but a bit easier to tell where the focus starts and ends), first, the daylight viewfinder focus is okay in general, but biased to the rear. Second, the tungsten just isn't really sharp at any point, but near the back it appears to be getting better. (I know that because of some testing done at the time to make adjustments). Third, the live view of the tungsten moves the focus forward, significantly.

This tends to agree with my experience as I pointed out in another post. In India pictures taken in daylight seemed okay (though not consistent), but in tungsten light and now I'm thinking about the office light (mercury), the focus was off.

I may be nuts and over analyzing this, but this is the first time in years I've had any problems and I would like to get it resolved. I appreciate your time and help.

Thanks
Steve
Click to expand...
Here's what I'd do:

PROPERLY (following exact instructions to the letter) calibrate your lenses, with the viewfinder, under natural light, and leave it, go shoot. COMPLETELY FORGET Live View, it promotes a HORRIBLE grip, anyway. You didn't buy a killer DSLR to use it like a P&S.

I think you ARE over-analyzing things. If you're under tungsten light, you're likely under LESS light as well, which will always make accurate auto-focus more difficult.

Any inconsistencies I've seen with my D7K so far have either been user error on my part, or not knowing the "quirky" large focus points, or asking too much of the auto-focus system under low light. The only exception I've found so far was with my 35mm f/1.8 G, which needed a -20 adjustment (NOT done with a proper calibration tool, but it's sharp now), and that seems to be a common problem with that lens and the D7K.

I think I may have some other lenses that would benefit from a little fine tune, but I haven't had time, and just haven't seen enough of a problem to worry about, yet. One of those "when I get around to it" things....

If I can get this, with is as horribly back-lit as it was (had to bring out all the shadow detail in PP), hand-held at 420mm and f/8 (somewhat beyond auto-focus minimum aperture "specs"), and with NO fine tune, I think maybe you'll find that you're fine, too:



 
sjackson462000 said:
Just opened Capture to check the settings and these are 'Single' for the AF-Area Mode.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Thanks, that helps regards testing consistency. It looks like you do have a slight back focus under tungsten with that lens. Try to brighten the light and see what happens. Also you might try just a slight AF adjustment to bring it forward but not so mach as to mess up day light shots. Liveview will always be perfect. Nikon may have a fix but I have yet to find it....perhaps the next firmware update. I, BTW, do not have the problem to the extent you do. But use a different set of lens. Just thinking out loud.
 
sjackson462000 said:
Sorry I forgot to answer another part of your past.

I did a test at 85mm x 30x. Results are similar for the general pattern, but the depth is different and worse (as I recall, I'm going to go look now). I remember moving back because the 30x seems like the worse case to be testing and is moving away from how we would normally shoot.
Click to expand...
30x is what Nikon uses on their calibration benches.
Member said:
So you are saying these results are typical? Are they typical of all auto-focus or just the D7000. I don't have focusing issues on my D300 or D200 like this, but I haven't tested either like this, so I can't say much.
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Not common but known to occur. Also occurs on other bodies (D700) and with different lens setups. It is a known phenomenon and caused by the focus array design. You can actually have dust on the Focus unit cause this too.
 
Appreciate the comments.

I picked perhaps the worst lens of my set to work with. I also did the same tests with the 85 1.4 Same issue with it. I stopped testing after that and started asking questions.

As an aside, when I travel I was hoping to have a small bag. The D7000, the 16-85, and perhaps either the 50 1.8 or 35G.

I have a pretty good set of lenses that I didn't start testing because this seemed so bad. I have a 10-20 Sigma, the two primes mentioned above, the 17-55, the 85 1.4, an 80-200 AFS, and the 55-300. I also have an old 75-150 3.5 E lens that is quite sharp.

I've put aside the older lenses that I know just wouldn't work.

I think we probably have exhausted this until I do more work. I'll be traveling for the next few weeks. I'll post my results after I return and test again.

Thanks
Steve
--
ssjackson
 
Whew!

We've pretty well beaten this thing to death until I do some more work.

I still have a bit of a problem with the concept that the VF focus doesn't work as well as the LV focus, particularly when the the problem is low light. Both are exposed to the same light, but I suspect they don't 'see' the same light due to how they work. And I don't know enough either way here.

So when the map and the territory don't agree, believe the territory and move on.

I'm traveling for the next few weeks so I won't be able to do much. I'll post when I learn/know more.

Thanks
Steve
--
ssjackson
 
spbStan said:
It was a Troll post.
--
Stan
St Petersburg Russia
Click to expand...
From seeing his examples it looks like the same problem voudas and I have. My D7000 under tungsten will back focus around 3 to 4 inches using PDAF / viewfinder. Dead on under natural light. I'll disagree with anyone who calls that acceptable tolerance when others don't have the same problem with their D7000's.

http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=40235548
http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=40235828
 
ahiggins333 said:
spbStan said:
It was a Troll post.
--
Stan
St Petersburg Russia
Click to expand...
From seeing his examples it looks like the same problem voudas and I have. My D7000 under tungsten will back focus around 3 to 4 inches using PDAF / viewfinder. Dead on under natural light. I'll disagree with anyone who calls that acceptable tolerance when others don't have the same problem with their D7000's.

http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=40235548
http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=40235828
Click to expand...
I agree...has Nikon suggested any solution yet? I also haven't gotten any new info from voudas. I've found the same thing occurring in other brands and models but no consistency. Seems worse in the D7K when it does occur.
 
It was a troll post (grin).

Have a good day. Sounds like you live in a wonderful place.
--
ssjackson
 
There is just something wonderful about images from the 50s that's almost impossible to recreate today. It's more than style or fashion, there's an innocence there that was captured. And it was enhanced by the, dare I say, less than razor sharp image quality of a cheap, little film camera.

Nice pic. Wish I still had some of mine.
 
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