Thinking of going pro?....err .....you're crazy!

...???...I'm not in the wedding biz. but your post makes little sense...if you are all the things you say you are then you are good for any business community...what exactly should you be feared for?...

Because I can afford to be more competitive margin-wise, not cheap, but highly competitive.

...so you're saying you choose to work for less?...

...if you can afford lower margins wouldn't it make more sense to keep more of the profit?...I would think at this point in your career you would focus on working less for more money...there is plenty of room for qualified pros with good business acumen, so I doubt that you being "competitive" is putting fear into anybody...

sam photo said:

...so you're saying you choose to work for less?...

...if you can afford lower margins wouldn't it make more sense to keep more of the profit?...I would think at this point in your career you would focus on working less for more money...there is plenty of room for qualified pros with good business acumen, so I doubt that you being "competitive" is putting fear into anybody...

Click to expand...

Yep, just making it harder for the people who actually do need the work to feed their families to make it. I'd rather compete with newbies who unknowingly way undercharge than pricks, excuse me, businessmen, who undercharge for no reason except that they can.

I was making the point that this class of competitor is out there, growing, and real. I personally choose the high end clients, so I can spend more time selectively going after my target market.

Right on, Tom!

I started as a hobbyist, which led to people offering me money to take photos. It hasn't replaced the day job (yet???), but it's far more rewarding right now.

"Get off my lawn!" old pros really rub me the wrong way. You're competing in the real world of 2012. Adapt or get out.

As for the "amateur" shooters who are sometimes at my side when I'm shooting, a) I'm always willing to chat and share my knowledge (and I might even learn something, too!).

As for those amateurs who have nice gear, too, so what? As I read on a blog somewhere: when someone hears you're a photog, they say, "You must have some really good equipment"....but when someone serves you a great meal, nobody gushes, "You must have a really good stove!" The equipment helps, but you need to know what to do with it.

Well, Mike, I've got to tell you that I DO think there are probably comparatively VERY few of you, despite your compelling "think again" and accompanying anecdote.

Furthermore, you old coots are apt to break a hip trying to keep up with the young guns.

LOL, as they say: Youth is Wasted On the Young" but we'll happily take the business while y'all are wasted.



Regards,
Old Coot

Michael Firstlight said:

LOL, as they say: Youth is Wasted On the Young" but we'll happily take the business while y'all are wasted.

Click to expand...

If you're competing at reasonable prices you won't be taking any business away.

...what I find comical in your post is that you left photography because you could not make a go of it full time...now you think you should be "feared" because you are planning on doing it semi-retired...how is it that you have become this photographic juggernaut while pursuing a completely different career?...

A lot of what makes these part time newbies a threat is that they DO have jobs and their AGE - lots of friends getting married, networking, youth/evergy is on their side too.

Now you're gonna be out of the age bracket and 'loop', wrong age for your friends to be your market or perhaps even your kids' friiends, your energy/health is a factor (you may be fit or not- but an 8+ hour wedding is physically taxing.

So you'll have marketing costs and effort. Now it becomes a business again. Work. I thought you were retired?

If you've been out of it for a decade things have CHANGED! I talked with a retired photog and she said "well, do THIS" and well, that worked for her perhaps in 99...but she shot MF film and every bride got a bridal session in her dress before the wedding and they all bought albums with 24 8x10s in them....if she were to reenter the biz today she'd be so out of touch wtih it as to not get any customers. What, hand over your negatives? (Files)? No way she says. Uh huh.

This sounds about as feasible as the newbies that book 2 $500 weddings and see a full time career in it 'because the bride was sooo happy with the pictures!'
--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford

Let's see, I am 53, 6'4, athletic (I run marathons and mountain climb) and can take out anyone my junior in Martial Arts as a 3rd degree black belt. What's that issue with physical capability and endurance again?

I have full working production portrait studio; I am fully up to date with the business, technique, technology and tools. To assume I and those like me are out of it is quite ignorant or wishful thinking.

You will learn that retirement today means leaving your initial primary career and start another in post-retirement - only without all of the the pressure. I actually didn't leave photography as a career willingly - I was hired by one of the largest international corporations as a staff photographer making more than most self-employed photographers ever makes and I had the opportunity to make six figured using my photography and media skills in the software development field; I hold patents dating all the way back to the emergence of computer-based multimedia to today's most advanced innovations. Why didn't I go back full time into my own studio full time as self-employed? I make high six figures in the publishing sector and it was better to get my full pension and 401K stocked.

I've been active P/T for the past 10 years and my problem is I have too many potential clients calling for whom I just don't have the time to service. Again, the fact that I don't have a lot of young friends getting married is sily - it is not at all an inhibitor (but the fact that my 20 and 22 YO daughters do does help - but I don't need that). Besides, I do mostly portrait and commercial work and not so many weddings as the profit margin is far better.

Regards,
Mike

Retirement - not working.

So if you keep working, you're not retired...

OK, you're 53. When do you plan to 'retire'? 10, 15 years from now? I'm 50 and in good shape as well (should work out more..but no health issues). Am I in the same shape I was 10 or 15 years ago? No way. And I don't expect that to change for teh better of the next 10 to 15 years either. And while you may be better than average in shape and health you are not getting any younger either . I've got a wedding photog friend (56) going in for a knee replacement after this wedding season...3 years ago it wasn't a big deal if an issue at all.

A friend decided to change careers at age 46. Went back to school and got a new degree. He's peeved like nobody's business. See, starting salaries are starting salaries whether you're 22 or 52. He's gonna take a 25k paycut to move to his new profession. Granted, self employment doesn't often start out with the same issue, but there is a learning curve.

Now if you've been doing it on teh side all along and ramp it up upon 'retirement' then that's different,but then you've been in the field all along - so that's different than being a new entity in the marketplace.

And you seem to be doing this on the side all along...so why fear you when you retire? Your competors know you exist now...you're talking about expanding perhaps? Hopefully not into weddings and thats a shrinking market...bad business planning to enter a shrinking market.
--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford

True, there are many of us part time old geezers out there (keep letting the kiddies think that we're all old and feeble : -) . And you are right, Folks like me can retire after 30 years from our primary careers in our early 50's and still have 15-20 years that we want to work, maybe full time for a while but with great flexibility and selectivity. It is that last bit that makes all the difference, those like me can afford to book select clients and provide exceptional service at the rate and pace we choose and on our own terms - unlike those that depend on heavy continuous bookings year round. And I don't have to compete with the low end photo-mill shops either. Weddings? I did enough of that sweat work over my lifetime and do them infrequently (have done between 50-75 in my lifetime), but it is not my main love - the pressure and risk is extremely high with low margin once people really account for all of the time spent. My hourly margin for portraits, studio and industrial work is far higher.

Regards,
Mike

...so I guess we've now come full circle and established that no one need fear you since you will be a productive member of the photographic community...

True, but if there are many of me that kind of flexibility does give us an edge - more so that the fly by night wannabes.

I've got to tell you, Mike, you've really narrowed down the field of potential people to fear.

There aren't many 50+ year olds in marathon/mountain-climbing shape in general. Of the few who exist, how many honestly have your brand of photographic credentials? How many honestly maintained a p/t studio while they held down the "real" job and stayed up to date with the latest in tech and business strategies for photogs? I'd say we're down to a very tiny segment of the population now. Very tiny. As in not worth mentioning.

So, really, I think the title of your initial post was more accurate than the body of it. YOU, Mike, are to be feared. You are a relatively rare individual, in the grand scheme. You aren't a representative of a threatening horde. You're just a dude with his sh*t aligned perfectly to pull some business away from some full-time pros in your region.

Maybe so, but I personally lost two peers in my company in last few months just like me (different geographies) So it could be just an odd run of us after all - hard to tell,but I also frequently met many similar P/T people with the same plans at my state's local professional association conventions and in professional training classes, so I have some direct basis for the view.

Regards,
Mike

...on the flip side, I see former inhouse photographers getting out of the field completely because they'd rather lose a limb than work more for less money shooting portraits/weddings...this has been more the trend since the recession...I see a lot of these guys looking for work in commercial studios...most get by assisting and with event work coupled with jobs that the studios pass on to make ends meet...they do this for a while until they get fed up and get out of photography as a sole means of support...

Such 'going pro' stories have often a one size fits all tone.

In reality there is much more chemistry to become a pro than a getting a line of clientele in 1 month time. It is also about do you have something unique to offer? Can you deliver creativity on request? Again and Again? Do you have people skills ...to maintain a network to make a small start? Could you work a parttime job while getting in bussiness? Without loosing your personal life?

Bussiness can be sweet even in recession time, if your network and your skills have what it takes.