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Low Light Focusing
- Thread starter papabear
- Start date
xcutter
Veteran Member
Try this link. Hopefully Nikon is paying attention. It is a great camera that needs a little more work.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=3896778
There are a some people on this forum that have workarounds. I'm sure you will hear from them soon.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=3896778
There are a some people on this forum that have workarounds. I'm sure you will hear from them soon.
Ron T
Veteran Member
Wally,
For max sensivity for AF use AF Area Mode set to AUTO or OFF.
The main thing that will help you is practice. The AF system detects contrast in the viewed image. Set the camera to AF Area Mode Manual to practice, this mode has the least performance but is the most pin-point.
Ron T
For max sensivity for AF use AF Area Mode set to AUTO or OFF.
The main thing that will help you is practice. The AF system detects contrast in the viewed image. Set the camera to AF Area Mode Manual to practice, this mode has the least performance but is the most pin-point.
Ron T
D.R. Barnhart
Leading Member
[snip]
how is this a helpful link? It's kind of like being stranded in a boat with no means of propulsion, miles from shore, and receiving a brochure about paddles and motors.
The best thing you can do is search this forum and pay attention to those, first, that actually own a 5700, not the "I had one for 3 days and if I can't make it work, it's no good" type posts. And then secondly, listen to those that have knowledge of how to make this camera really smoke. I don't want to mention any names (Jarrell, Bud, Jim, Thomas, etc...) for fear of leaving someone out. But they're here. Check out some of the examples on pBase and other sites, too. You'll learn and be amazed at the results.
Happy Shooting!
D.R.Barnart
PS Have you heard about using a laser for focusing in pitch black?
xcutter
Veteran Member
That was a strange analogy. I thought that the link would show him that he is not alone with this problem. That it is not just his camera doing this. He could sign the petition and hope for Nikon to do something. It was basically one reply that linked to many with the same problem.
I loved the 5700 while I had it. The AF "learning curve" was too much for me to deal with. Auto mode should be auto mode, not semi auto mode. My wife needs to be able to use the camera set at auto and doesn't care to deal with tricks to get a focus lock in the auto focus mode. Almost every reviewer on the internet has stated their is an AF problem of some sort.
I am currently without a camera, waiting to see if a firmware update for the 5700 comes out. Maybe a new version of the 5700 will be out in a few months. Either way, I hope I can get an improved version of the current 5700 and I am willing to wait a little while for it to happen. The Sony 717 is great, but way too bulky and not as good of a zoom range as the 5700. I also hate the memory stick.
Again, the 5700 is a great camera, just needs to be tweaked a bit by Nikon.
Rich
I loved the 5700 while I had it. The AF "learning curve" was too much for me to deal with. Auto mode should be auto mode, not semi auto mode. My wife needs to be able to use the camera set at auto and doesn't care to deal with tricks to get a focus lock in the auto focus mode. Almost every reviewer on the internet has stated their is an AF problem of some sort.
I am currently without a camera, waiting to see if a firmware update for the 5700 comes out. Maybe a new version of the 5700 will be out in a few months. Either way, I hope I can get an improved version of the current 5700 and I am willing to wait a little while for it to happen. The Sony 717 is great, but way too bulky and not as good of a zoom range as the 5700. I also hate the memory stick.
Again, the 5700 is a great camera, just needs to be tweaked a bit by Nikon.
Rich
Jim Campbell
Veteran Member
This was a full auto pic with the sb80 flash. The 5700 locked up right away with a half press on the release and then I took the pic. This was about as point and shoot as you could get.
xcutter
Veteran Member
Lots of contrast there with the lights on the truck. The 5700 has no problem focusing with that kind of contrast. It will focus in a completely dark room using a laser pointer for focusing.
Jim Campbell
Veteran Member
E
Ed Nazarko
Guest
I found the statement of xcutter too good to let go without testing.
The 5700 locked in, like a rocket, on my laser pointer. (Just before the cat attacked the red dot...) Just like in any camera I've owned with autofocus, contrast is all...
The 5700 locked in, like a rocket, on my laser pointer. (Just before the cat attacked the red dot...) Just like in any camera I've owned with autofocus, contrast is all...
D.R. Barnhart
Leading Member
but how I read his post was that he was asking for help, possible workarounds or the like, not a support group. The petition itself doesn't hold much, if any, information on working around focus issues. That wasn't it's purpose. I was just trying to point out that I didn't think it was his best source for a solution. As for a strange analogy? If you knew me you wouldn't be surprised...
[snip]
How can "no camera" be better than a "less than perfect camera"? All of your best shots tomorrow can't make up for the opportunities your missing today...
Go get a camera and start shooting. Buy what's better when it's here.
D.R.Barnhart
xcutter
Veteran Member
I am not looking for the perfect camera, just one that is digital and can replace my Canon T70 that served me well for 18 years. The only two I found was the 5700 and the 717, both 5 megapixels. I got frustrated with the 5700 and the 717 is just too bulky. I like the way I can stick the 5700 in my jacket pocket (when necessary) while on vacation. Next vacation is in May. I can wait for the upcoming CES to see what is next for 2003.
Rich
Rich
Austin_316
Veteran Member
Two choices. 1) return it. 2) deal with it. There are many hopefulls here who think they can wish it or "Nice" it away. It ain't getting better any day soon. Nikon won't admit it, and without a manual focusing ring, how you gonna focus?
Oh wait, I know...
Take all your pix in bright light and use widest zoom settings.
Oh yea, better use some flash too!
What am I saying, now and again I get a shot I like but it's like "Russian Roulette" Put it to your head and pull the trigger.
I got this Friday night at the Ducks game 8 or 10 others are O.K. out of 88.
--
Oh wait, I know...
Take all your pix in bright light and use widest zoom settings.
Oh yea, better use some flash too!
What am I saying, now and again I get a shot I like but it's like "Russian Roulette" Put it to your head and pull the trigger.
I got this Friday night at the Ducks game 8 or 10 others are O.K. out of 88.
--
- . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *
Austin_316
Veteran Member
IF so congrats. But, THANKS for continuing to fight our battle. We need the help. I do realize now that some of my shots were actually motion blur, thanks to Ed? Somebody. I wander how many other folks misinterpret motion blur for poor focus. I do know this. My 2 Sony handycam Video cameras focus way better and faster. So does my Olympus and my Fuji 4900, SO all you other people can quit telling me that my $1200 NIKON (You know the BIG brand name) is as good as it gets.
I know better. A twelve hundred dollar camera should work as good or better than my $500 and $800 cameras.
--
- . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *
Austin_316
Veteran Member
Contrast focus, the camera focused on the twinkle lights. I took my sons birthday photos this evening and 3 of the 7 are junk. I had to turn on every light I own to get focus.
Sorry, I'm just sick of it. I would be happy if I could focus and forget the Auto but Nikon didn't give me that choice. I thought I covered that when I was looking for an upgrade from my Fuji4900. (Which bu the way has a manual focusing ring) but I guess I missed that. Right along with the fact that the zoom shrinks to a "BB" sized f4.2 aperture when at full zoom. That was my fault and I am paying for it.
--
Sorry, I'm just sick of it. I would be happy if I could focus and forget the Auto but Nikon didn't give me that choice. I thought I covered that when I was looking for an upgrade from my Fuji4900. (Which bu the way has a manual focusing ring) but I guess I missed that. Right along with the fact that the zoom shrinks to a "BB" sized f4.2 aperture when at full zoom. That was my fault and I am paying for it.
--
- . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *
Austin_316
Veteran Member
Sorry Jim but that snow shot doesn't look to be focused very well and it is a wider angle shot. Not as much need for focus. Most of what I shoot seems to be at least mid zoom.
I am not picking on you. Your one of the good guys. I just am about fed up with missing shots that I could get with my Fuji. I don't want to loose the rez. and zoom but I may go back if we can't find an answer.
--
I am not picking on you. Your one of the good guys. I just am about fed up with missing shots that I could get with my Fuji. I don't want to loose the rez. and zoom but I may go back if we can't find an answer.
--
- . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *
Austin_316
Veteran Member
Hot shoe mount? Just wondering, sounds like you been around the block a few times and might know.
P.S. I think every laser pointer should come with a cat!
P.S. I think every laser pointer should come with a cat!
--
- . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *
Ron T
Veteran Member
Maybe you got a defective camera because you shouldn't have to be in bright light to get focus. The zoom must be used wisely or you can get blur with improper shutter speed, 8x zoom you need 1/280th sec. minimum for hand-held use. You must also make sure of focus lock (half press) before you press the shutter all the way down, if you don't it's Russian Roulette like you said. You can not focus on low contrast objects such as solid color wall, focus on something else on the wall and get focus lock then recompose the shot. Hope this helps.
Ron T
Ron T
kecohen
Veteran Member
Austin,
This isn't a Fuji, and I'd be willing to bet you're NOT asking this camera to do the same things you did with the Fuji. For one thing, you are using a longer lens with greater magnification. You have got to understand that this camera has a magnification factor of 4x. That's huge!
Even at half the telephoto range, you're shooting with an equivalent 140mm lens, with as wide open an aperture as the camera can give you (probably around 3.6).
This is comparable to a portrait lens, with a little more DOF. But you'd NEVER see a portrait photographer try to use that lens without a tripod even under the best controlled lighting situations! Why? Because even if the photographer and the subject were to hold their breath, they are each still moving at a minimum of 1/60 sec (unsynchronized) because their hearts are beating. The camera picks up the tiniest movement. And the closer you are to your subject, whether by telephoto or actual proximity, the more magnified the movement becomes.
There are several things that cause blur in images: not enough light, too slow a shutter speed, subject moving and camera shake. To have perfectly focused photos, YOU (not the camera) have to eliminate the camera shake; only then can you adjust the camera, or let the camera make its own adjustments, to compensate for the other factors that you can't control.
I have heard that adding the MB5700 battery pack adds weight to the camera and helps you stabilize it some. I prefer a heavy duty tripod. I also have a heavy duty monopod (with detachable legs) and a remote switch.
By the way, without a tripod, your shutter speed should be 2x the focal distance of your lens to compensate for subject motion and camera shake--i.e., just to freeze the action. That's independent of focus. And then you need enough light getting through to the CCD.
The more you know about photography the more you will love this camera. There are volumes of examples of what this camera can do in the right hands. You just have to understand that it isn't like any other camera you've had before.
--
Karen
...but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need.
Minolta 7000i, accessories and lenses, lenses, lenses; CP5700, TC15ED,
Kenko KUT-300 Hi, SB80X Speedlight, Epson Stylus 980N, Epson 7600
(shared), Epson Expression 1680 w/ transparency unit, Tamron Fotovix
60WU....
http://www.e-designarts.com
http://www.pbase.com/kecohen/
E
Ed Nazarko
Guest
My cat thinks every owner should come with a laser pointer.
Don't know of any third party IR focusing aid. The problem with the concept is that IR focuses differently than visible light. (I shoot a fair amount of IR film.) IR auto focusing systems built into cameras have a built in compensation routine. SLR lenses used to have an IR focusing compensation mark. Now they don't so I try to shoot everything on IR at f8, hoping that the depth of field will cover for me.
So, other than an IR rangefinder setup that would then require you to manually focus afterwards (perhaps the military has one of these for doing shelling distances...) I'm not sure you're going to find something that does what you want. Maybe, but I've definitely not heard of such.
Don't know of any third party IR focusing aid. The problem with the concept is that IR focuses differently than visible light. (I shoot a fair amount of IR film.) IR auto focusing systems built into cameras have a built in compensation routine. SLR lenses used to have an IR focusing compensation mark. Now they don't so I try to shoot everything on IR at f8, hoping that the depth of field will cover for me.
So, other than an IR rangefinder setup that would then require you to manually focus afterwards (perhaps the military has one of these for doing shelling distances...) I'm not sure you're going to find something that does what you want. Maybe, but I've definitely not heard of such.
E
Ed Nazarko
Guest
Michael - Let me suggest a third option - learn to shoot. Not being snarky at all - but you've missed the reason you got a great shot here - you think it's that the camera finally worked. It's not the camera that got it right here, it's you.
The reason you got this great shot is that, know it or not, you were panning with the action. His head is crisp, because it was moving less than the rest of his body and you were panning at the same speed and vector as his head was moving, everything else was blurred because it was moving too fast for the shutter speed. So you got a great shot, better than they guys using a fast shutter speed to "stop all the action" would get - because it'd look like they shot a diorama of hockey. You've got a sports shot.
I'll bet that if you looked at most of the shots you got that were junk at this game, you'd find that most of the blur is motion blur - hand motion (the little muscle twitches that your body generates to keep track of your location in space and time) or action blur. Panning, because it is using your muscles, damps the baseline movement in your body a bit. Hence the killer shot you got here.
FYI, 10 out of 88 is a better average than a pro shooter would get or expect. I"ve shot hockey before, with thousands of dollars of SLR gear, and super high speed film. I'd have been ecstatic with a 1/8 yield. I generally turn off autofocus, because indoor sports lighting is relatively low contrast lighting - even and flat, because television cameras add a lot of contrast, and sports lighting is optimized for TV. I find it hard to even focus by eye, much less count on the robot in the camera. The technique to use is preset a focus where you anticipate the action to be going, pan and shoot like hell as it goes there and passes through. You'll get better shots, and a higher yield, than by using auto focus, or trying to follow focus with high speed action.
This isn't "nicing it away." You've got a camera that pushes a bunch of limits, beyond pro cameras in many cases, at an amateur price.
Reminds me of the guy who bought a 993 Porsche, brought it to the race track, and decided the car was junk because I could ride his bumper all the way around the track in a stock BMW 325. He completely ignored the fact that I'd spent five years at various driving schools, and put more miles on my car on the track in those years than most people would in an entire life.
The reason you got this great shot is that, know it or not, you were panning with the action. His head is crisp, because it was moving less than the rest of his body and you were panning at the same speed and vector as his head was moving, everything else was blurred because it was moving too fast for the shutter speed. So you got a great shot, better than they guys using a fast shutter speed to "stop all the action" would get - because it'd look like they shot a diorama of hockey. You've got a sports shot.
I'll bet that if you looked at most of the shots you got that were junk at this game, you'd find that most of the blur is motion blur - hand motion (the little muscle twitches that your body generates to keep track of your location in space and time) or action blur. Panning, because it is using your muscles, damps the baseline movement in your body a bit. Hence the killer shot you got here.
FYI, 10 out of 88 is a better average than a pro shooter would get or expect. I"ve shot hockey before, with thousands of dollars of SLR gear, and super high speed film. I'd have been ecstatic with a 1/8 yield. I generally turn off autofocus, because indoor sports lighting is relatively low contrast lighting - even and flat, because television cameras add a lot of contrast, and sports lighting is optimized for TV. I find it hard to even focus by eye, much less count on the robot in the camera. The technique to use is preset a focus where you anticipate the action to be going, pan and shoot like hell as it goes there and passes through. You'll get better shots, and a higher yield, than by using auto focus, or trying to follow focus with high speed action.
This isn't "nicing it away." You've got a camera that pushes a bunch of limits, beyond pro cameras in many cases, at an amateur price.
Reminds me of the guy who bought a 993 Porsche, brought it to the race track, and decided the car was junk because I could ride his bumper all the way around the track in a stock BMW 325. He completely ignored the fact that I'd spent five years at various driving schools, and put more miles on my car on the track in those years than most people would in an entire life.
Two choices. 1) return it. 2) deal with it. There are many
hopefulls here who think they can wish it or "Nice" it away. It
ain't getting better any day soon. Nikon won't admit it, and
without a manual focusing ring, how you gonna focus?
Oh wait, I know...
Take all your pix in bright light and use widest zoom settings.
Oh yea, better use some flash too!
What am I saying, now and again I get a shot I like but it's like
"Russian Roulette" Put it to your head and pull the trigger.
I got this Friday night at the Ducks game 8 or 10 others are O.K.
out of 88.
--
Michael... Olympus D-600L, FUJI 4900, Nikon 5700 and still waiting
- . . . \ \ \ \ God Bless Us All / / / / . . . *
for that affordable 'Dream' Digicam
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