Thinking of going pro?....err .....you're crazy!

ok it's too late for some of you but here are some thoughts on turning pro
http://buchangrant.com/blog/?p=819
I'd be very interested in hearing any views from this forum especially
--
Neil
http://about.me/buchangrant

I 'went pro' and left my job as a lawyer recently. Best decision I ever made. Stress levels are way down, personal satisfaction is much higher. I love my job, I'm making better money than as a lawyer, and I'm far far happier, which I think is the most important thing.

No disrespect to the author of this article, but in my view this type of text is far more damaging than one which inspires people to follow their dreams. I don't at all feel threatened by uncle Bob with his D4 and 6 lenses. In my view if a photographer is losing business to random people who happen to have expensive cameras, then they should seriously examine their own work and business structure, rather than blaming technology, or the industry.

http://www.thomastewart.com.au

Okay, Tom...you've piqued my interest, and you can't just leave me hanging!

Give me some details about your process of phasing (evolving?) from an attorney to a professional photographer. What was your law practice like? How did you begin the transition? What was the hardest part? The easiest part?

As you may have guessed, I'm an attorney (in the U.S.) and I've been itching to break away from this field since about a month after I started. I'm not particularly interested in becoming a pro photographer, but I am always interested in hearing how people "got out," so to speak.

If you've got the time and/or the inclination, please share.

Hello Tom!

I'm delighted to hear that you are doing so well, its unusual for someone switching career to photography to end up making more money, especially when the profession they have left is one which is as highly paid as yours! Its good to hear success stories but I still believe most people can be very happy and satisfied and can bring their work up to a high standard without changing careers.

The wedding scenario in my text is only one tiny example of how the professional market is having tough times, but its usually the first one people jump on I'm not in that market, I don't shoot weddings and if I did, I wouldn't feel threatened by uncle Henry either

--
Neil
http://about.me/buchangrant

Yeah, I too completely disagree. Uncle Bob with his D4 doesn't scare me and I understand what it takes to run a successful business (and it's not just good photos either!)

Glad you're doing well, Tom. But I'd be careful about using your own example as one for others, especially here in the United States. In the US, colleges have become virtual law degree mills, and one recent study (as told in an NPR story) showed that the area of law is one of the most over-serviced industries we have. Wile some lawyers do well, many, many others have to start as low-paid legal assistants, filing papers for the "real" attorneys just to get a job.

To be fair, you were (as indicated by your website) out of law school for just three years before becoming a full-time photographer. Some might agree that just three years out of school barely was enough time to cement you in that particular "career".

Again, congrats on your success. But please exercise caution about letting your own singular experience serve as an example for others. For every successful person such as yourself there are likely hundreds of other "enthusiasts" who, prodded by those books and magazines described, plunk down the hard cash for expensive gear with dreams of shooting their way into a happy photographic career, only to be penniless a year later with few clients and a bunch of outdated technology worth a fraction of the high price paid for it. The photography industry is extremely saturated and over-served in many markets, and for those areas the link provided by the original poster serves as prudent advise, at least listened to by all considering such a move.

tominbabylon said:

I 'went pro' and left my job as a lawyer recently. Best decision I ever made. Stress levels are way down, personal satisfaction is much higher. I love my job, I'm making better money than as a lawyer, and I'm far far happier, which I think is the most important thing.

No disrespect to the author of this article, but in my view this type of text is far more damaging than one which inspires people to follow their dreams. I don't at all feel threatened by uncle Bob with his D4 and 6 lenses. In my view if a photographer is losing business to random people who happen to have expensive cameras, then they should seriously examine their own work and business structure, rather than blaming technology, or the industry.

http://www.thomastewart.com.au

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In the real world, by the time Uncle Bob got rich enough, and interested enough, to get a D4, he also got old and his knees started acting up.

So he's not going to do a lot of weddings.

The real problem for real professionals is Sorority Sister Sally.

Sally married reasonably well, is taking time off from some fancier career, and staying home with the kids, at least until they're old enough for school.

Her husband brings in decent money, and has benefits.

But Sally is bored, artistic, and has a mom and a mother in law will to look after the kids while she spends a Saturday doing a wedding for $1,000 cash, no sign of the taxman.

And Sally has a lot of wedding-age friends, and friends with friends.

And Sally may be doing her work with a T1i, two kit lenses, one flash and a reflector.

Photoshop Elements on a $600 computer, and prints and photobooks from Costco.

BAK

Sadly, I think their are anyway to take the customers from Sally.

I'm not a wedding photographer, but in minor sports, which I do, I'm faced with the same, and you know what, my business plan accounts for that, like offer product they can't, or at least not as good as mine

Bernard

--

I measure my success in life not by my awards, but by the amount of smiles, hugs and kisses I get from my family on a daily basis !

I have been in this business for over 40 years. I don't shoot weddings or events so I can't feel threatened by the johnny and mary come lately photographers in that segment of the business. What I run into is the youngster who had recently graduated with a degree in photography and who is out to set the world on fire by practically giving work (good work) away just to get the job because he or she thinks getting published w a few times will bring them a host of clients. We who have been at this for some time know that is not going to happen, but their fantasies overwhelm their common sense.

Oddly enough, that is not a current phenomena. It has been going on for decades, and it is likely to go on for decades more. Sometimes I lose business to those folks, but not usually. The reason why is that I do not solicit work from prospective clients that can only afford that kind of photographer. I have found that prospects who regularly use photography in their business or publication rarely want to take a chance on that kind of talent because they fear not having their work done right and on time when they are facing a deadline that has no room for error.

Tomorrow I am going to give a talk to senior photography students at Temple University. Some are my potential competitors after graduation in May. I'd rather help them get onto the business the right way so they do not muck it up. My best competitor is an informed competitor. So I'd rather help them than fear them.

--
Richard Weisgrau
http://www.weisgrau.com
Author of
The Real Business of Photography
The Photographer's Guide to Negotiating
Selling Your Photography
Licensing Photography

hey Theroni and others! Thanks for your interest in my response. And thanks to the other posters with their words.

It is true that I was only a lawyer for 3 years before leaving. That was all it took. I had already been shooting while traveling for around 4 years, and I always got the same comments that we all get: 'you're work is good, you should sell some photos'. I then had the chance to shoot some weddings on the side without payment, which I did, and which I enjoyed thoroughly. My parter knew how unhappy I was in the law job; I would consistently arrive home in a terrible mood and she saw how bad the job was for me. She was very supportive the whole way. The final point I kept coming back to was: when I'm 90 and don't have long to go, what will I regret in my life? I will regret the chances I didn't take, and I would also regret staying in a job I absolutely hated just because it payed well.

So I decided to built a website, started some facebook marketing, and booked a few paid weddings based on referrals. Then I booked more, and more, and more, things went from there. Then I quit

I have to also admit that my law job was with a large regional firm, not a international city firm, so salary levels were a lot lower than you're probably imagining. So when I say I'm earning more than as a lawyer, I'm not at 6 figures yet, but I do believe it is possible.

And while I agree with other posters that not every person dreaming of becoming a photographer should suddenly dump all their money on gear and plunge head in just because photo mags tell them they can, I support the fostering of dreams. If a person enters a job without proper skills and fails, they cannot blame a magazine for encouraging them, but themselves for making a bad decision.

I respectfully stand by my original words comments. I think that photographers who tell other aspiring photographers 'I did it, but neeeeeever do what I did, it is too hard, stressful, you can't earn good money, you'll have no life, etc etc' are not helping at all - young (or old) creatives should be encouraged to follow dreams, not dissuaded.

Maybe it is just my area of Aus, but the wedding market is not suffering at all. The more experienced weddings photographers are booming, and the newer guys like me (of which there are quite a few in my town) are all slammed with work. So I think here there is plenty of work to go round, and I personally hear of very few professionals being turned down over Uncle Bob with a D4.

Thanks so much for sharing, Tom. As an associate at a "large regional firm" as well, I make a good salary for my age bracket, but not six figures. The problem is that I have the internal dialogue about regret on my deathbed fairly often, I just haven't found my avenue of escape yet. For me, I don't envision that it will be photography. But just hearing someone else tell their story of leaving the legal field is inspiring.

So thanks for that. And best of luck on your trek toward six figures!

Anyone can be a photographer. Like it or not...that's the reality today.

From a friend in the city...

Buchan-Grant said:

A local woman bought a DSLR in 2009, had no professional training to speak of, was working at a desk at FedEx in 2010, shot a couple weddings, joined Pictage, came to the Pictage PUG meetings and cried in front of all of us about how she could never be good at this, then promptly set up a web site and fb page, shot some more weddings, quit her job, took over the PUG when no one else wanted it, started teaching LR classes when just 12 months earlier she couldn't spell LIGHT, much less ROOM, and a couple months ago was a PRESENTER at WPPI under the auspices of Pictage. She is now, a tender 18 months into her new career, a Pictage "ACE" consultant and sells her e-mail and workflow templates on Pictage's ShootQ web site.

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Great story, huh?

He continued in a follow up email

Buchan-Grant said:

She's a hottie with some huge number of LIKEs on fb. My understanding is that she has already been involved in several disputes with her brides. I know of one for sure, which became public and was something of a scene on facebook for a while..

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Buchan-Grant said:

In the process of her meteoric rise, she has pizzed off about every established wedding photographer in the city by passing herself off as an expert--even people who used to like her. And nobody except newbies will attend the local PUG anymore because she is running it. She's been a one-woman wedding photography soap opera.

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Then there is the former bride of mine that wanted and begged to come along and observe a wedding cause she loved photography. But over 2 years she never found the time to do it. She did not even own a camera.

Then this year I find her ad on all the local websites, wed sites, etc. It would appear she's got others shooting for her..
her pricing?
shoot and burn...6 hours $900, 8 hours $1200
portrait prices are SAD...1 hours session, 100 images on disk, $75. Yep.
her photo booth for events is called a 'mobile studio' - 4 hours $500.

Ok, so you CAN go pro...can you make any money at it? And what happens next year when someone comes along cheaper than you? Takes 20% of your business away?

3 years ago 9 photogs advertised in the big bridal show's newspaper, and 4 were at the show. 4 Djs, 6 photobooths, 3 videographers
This year? NO ads, not a one. 1 DJ. 1 Photobooth, no videographers.

The market, she is a changing!
And not for the better.

This is too funny! I am/was seriously considering going Law School (UC Berkeley) to become a lawyer but could not devote 4 years of study (I already have an MBA degree). Lawyers, if you are good, can make a lot of money but you have to get into the right area of law.

I love arguing and pointing out things that do not make sense then going for the jugglar (the kill) to disprove someone.

I have owned my business for 20+ years and even though I have seen a slight decrease in business, the last few years saw my competition disappear. If you really want to go into photography, don't just think MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. Like building your dream home you have to make it stand out from the rest of the pack. I did a lot of unconventional things to get my business known and out there.

Integrity is the key. When I shoot professional sports, I go out there and meet the rest of my competition and hang out with them during down times. These photographers are my clients and they trust me and my business. They know I do not scrimp on quality and I buy the best of the best in equipment to make sure the end product upholds my demand of quality.

Vegasluvr said:

This is too funny! I am/was seriously considering going Law School (UC Berkeley) to become a lawyer but could not devote 4 years of study (I already have an MBA degree). Lawyers, if you are good, can make a lot of money but you have to get into the right area of law.

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Sounds like photography...LOL

More "jobs" for lawyers than photogs. To do well in photography almost forces you to be in business for yourself.

I wonder of all the lawyers out there how many quite a job to go into practice for themselves and how many gave that up for a corp type legal job?

Vegasluvr said:

I have owned my business for 20+ years and even though I have seen a slight decrease in business, the last few years saw my competition disappear.

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Same thing around here. My wedding business is up this year - I think for the reason there is less "real photographers" to compete with.

--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford

I agree...however many of the new breed are not interested in learning from those in the biz - the 'old outdated' photographers they think we are (and that many are).

The local PPA org is losing members - the old ones are dying, those that didn't keep up on their business models are failing (closing, getting day jobs, whatever) and the newbies are not coming out to join...

Is it because 'they know it all'? Or can learn it on the net, ir 'its not complicated' or the like?

Many of them in charge feel the that many are not part timers and don't have the time to get involved as their day jobs are taking precedence.

I'm curious to see what happens as the economy picks up - will part timers grow becuse custs are more plentiful or leave to go back to better day jobs?
--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford

.......that wasn't the point of the post, it was just a tiny part of it and I'm starting to wish I had left uncle Henry out of it!

--
Neil
http://about.me/buchangrant

You said

" he or she thinks getting published a few times will bring them a host of clients. We who have been at this for some time know that is not going to happen, but their fantasies overwhelm their common sense"

No but it is often the first step to someone realising that their work has some merit, and let's face it, that's how current publishing is going, so much is by the public and is not paid for.

The thread, once again was not supposed to be about how professional photographers can protect their livelihoods against fly-by-night characters, it was supposed to be about how few actual working pros make a good living from just photography without having the support of a spouce or a large capital reserve. It was supposed to be about how foolish it is to venture into this business at all if you want a decent livin.

So that's what you should be telling your students, that most of them will be selling pizzas within a year.

I'd like to here from pros who either agree with this or don't and I'd like to know why

Neil
http://about.me/buchangrant

There are jobs as photographers - and you'll make min wage or little more.

So you go shoot on your own, on the side, and get $500-1000 for a saturday's wedding. Big money? To the walmart photog, student fresh out of school, yeah, it is.

And if you don't advertise, don't buy top line gear, are in the right age bracket to shoot friends and aquanitnences weddings you can have a decent part time income.

See, a min wage job, or a bit above, pays what, $15-20k a year? So yeah, 5 weddings at $8000 a pop is big money to such a person.

They don't care that they're taking biz from a pro that has real overhead and needs to pay employees, rent, advertising and the like.

But are they the problem? Or is it the client? Society? Or should the old pro come up with a new strategy to fight the newbie challenge?

OR is it a newbie challenge? I think it's as much a digital change as anything else.

BEfore you open any biz you need to do some homework - is there demand for what you want to offer? (more photogs than clients of late... and prices dropping) What product is desired, at what price, in what quantity? What are you costs?

I can sell a wedding for $2900. But can I sell enough of htem to make it a viable business? And how do I do that? (or seniors or babies or sports - or hamburgers or pizzas or jewelry - the concept applies to all businesses)
--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford

both as a photographic challenge and as a social and communication challenge.
I can also challenge myself every single time, trying to be better every day.

On my free time, I can still shoot whatever I feel like, so that part is no different from just shooting for fun.

Now, could I only make my clients pay without me doing the boring stuff with invoicing I'd be really happy =)

Besides, I have enough sales now to don't having to spend more time selling work, and it's still only february. It's a rare luxury unless you are employed to be able to relax as much. I have no regrets at all turning pro.
--
Anders

'It is nice to be important but it is more important to be nice'

The author of that article was spot-on, but missed an important dynamic.

The people full time pros REALLY have to worry about are people like me; former pros, highly-trained and skilled who left their full time photography careers many years ago and went into other, far better paying professions (like software development and business management for me) and never gave up photography for either for pleasure or as a part time business, are already fully equipped, have built up years of business planning and business management experience, remained members of local, regional, and national photographic professional organizations and still have many working years left in good physical health. Think there are just a few of us? Think again. I know many like me. We will retire early with pensions and 401Ks - many already have, but still want to work and supplement our income. We know how to market, we know business, we know the profession and have the skills, we've taught, we've stayed current - we don't have to worry about fluctuations in income from our post retirement careers - many of us are still in our late 40's and 50's.

Yes, I am one of those. I've have a P/T portrait studio on the side since 2001, I have more than 35 years of photographic experience, the last 12 years or so in digital, majored in photography in college and was mentored by pros early on and built up a nice portfolio. There are many of us. We are not stupid enough to under-charge for our work, but we can be very creative and flexible competitively and can self-determine how much work-revenue-profit we want to balance.

Just another perspective. Whereas Johnny and Jane novice might come and burn out quickly as they always have, this other breed is a different animal altogether as the baby boom generation retires from their main careers in droves and have at least 10-20 years where they still want or need to work.

Regards,
Mike