Copyright infringement or overreaction?

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe. They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00 each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission". What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

If this lady is somebody you know, I would speak to her and just let her know that you would love to make prints for her for her Christmas presents next year. The cost is only $1 each so that is a real bargain. But please do not make them yourself as the photo is copyright by me... something to that effect. I am sure she just never thought that the photo might not be in the public domain. I think most people don't think of this. You might also find a way to post or announce that prints of your photos are available through you but not by copying the ones posted by the church. Good luck, Ann

--
also known as PT Kitty > ^..^
http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries
http://www.annchaikin.com

lisa,

FWIW, I'd let this one slide. I think it's the Christian, or any other religion, thing to do. I like your idea about a stamp. But maybe instead of the "no copy" stamp, how about a "images by lisafx" stamp or watermark? That way if they do get re-produced/distributed, without your approval, at least you get some free advertising out of the deal.

Even though it was a tacky thing for this woman to do, you should feel flattered that she thought so highly of your print

Steve

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/slo2k

'If one really wishes to be master of an art, technical knowledge of it is not enough. One has to transcend technique so that the art becomes an 'artless art' growing out of the Unconscious.'

SInce these were taken by you for the church as part of your tithe, the photos actually belong to the church and not you. Thus if there is a violation, the church should handle it.

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
Steve
[email protected]
Sony F717 Canon G3

Thanks, Ann & Steve for your replies. I am glad I am not alone in thinking this was of out of bounds, but I agree, it's not worth making a huge issue over. I think that the average person who isn't a serious photographer (amatuer or pro) doesn't realize how much expense and expertise goes into making really good photos.

Unfortunately, our Sunday announcements already state that the pics are available for $1.00, so that's pretty well known around our church. They are also on the church website where everyone has access to them.

Maybe I will word my stamp a bit more tactfully, as you suggest, Steve, but I want it phrased in such a way that no lab will copy them in the future.

Thanks again for the tea and sympathy

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Steven Blackwood said:

SInce these were taken by you for the church as part of your tithe,
the photos actually belong to the church and not you. Thus if there
is a violation, the church should handle it.

Click to expand...

Actually, that is not the understanding I have with the church. The considerable time I invest in taking pictures at every church function is the tithe. I don't deduct any of it on my taxes or prepare a bill or anything, so maybe this would be better charactarized as a gift. I am probably misunderstanding you, because it sounds like you are saying any time I give away a print or my time as a gift I am giving up the right to my intelectual property. That was never part of the deal.

Steven Blackwood said:

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
Steve
[email protected]
Sony F717 Canon G3

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Hi Lisa.

I agree with Ann that it isn't over reaction. The big problem now, is if this lady is telling everyone what a great idea for gifts it was, then everyone else might want to do the same and in one way you can't blame them if they think that is acceptable. I would not confront the lady as that may cause dissent and too many ripples but a simple announcement during church and maybe a little sign on the bulletin board explaining simply & very nicely that the photos are copyright and cannot be reproduced without permission (then reiterate your rates and letting them know its just covering printing costs).

However, Steven could be right too regarding ownership of your photos depending on the "deal" you made with the church. Might be a time to sit down and discuss with the church, your concerns and maybe clarify or work out the terms in which you photograph the church events. From the looks. the church has been happy with let you maintain copyright by letting you sell copies to it's Members but it's always best to find this out first before you go ahead with anything.

All this should be handled with as much diplomacy and niceness as possible as it is within your local community and you do not want to cause any bad feeling. Education is the key.

Now there is the issue

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
My aim is to live forever.....so far so good.

Steven Blackwood said:

SInce these were taken by you for the church as part of your tithe,
the photos actually belong to the church and not you. Thus if there
is a violation, the church should handle it.

Click to expand...

The Church owns the prints not the copyright. The service rendered (taking the photos) is the tithe not the copyright to the pictures. If I sit for a portrait and pay the photographer for a picture(s), I don't have any legal recourse to have that picture(s) copied. What I paid for is the photographers expertise and the prints. The copyright remains the property of the photographer.

Where I work we have to be very careful what we make copies of for our customers as we may be held legally liable. This often upsets our customers because they feel that they paid for the picture, book, etc and should be able to make copies.
--
Brooks
F717, HP315, Minolta Maxxum 5000i

'We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more.' Pudd'nhead Wilson

Steve Cavigliano said:

lisa,
FWIW, I'd let this one slide. I think it's the Christian, or any
other religion, thing to do. I like your idea about a stamp. But
maybe instead of the "no copy" stamp, how about a "images by
lisafx" stamp or watermark? That way if they do get
re-produced/distributed, without your approval, at least you get
some free advertising out of the deal.

Even though it was a tacky thing for this woman to do, you should
feel flattered that she thought so highly of your print

Steve

Click to expand...

A reputable business won't make a copy of a picture that has a visible stamp or watermark, as it plainly indicates that the photo is copyrighted. A stamp or watermark also gives a professional look to the pictures, not to mention a little additional advertising. "Images by lisafx", maybe in gold ink, would have a very elegant look.

--
Brooks
F717, HP315, Minolta Maxxum 5000i

'We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more.' Pudd'nhead Wilson

Lisa... you are really a person of great control. I'm not sure I would have been as quiet about the incident but, I understand this is a sticky situation at the very least.

If your images are posted on the bulletin board, I would place a note nearby the images, letting church members know that copies of the images are available at your printing cost of 1.00 each and, list your contact name and number. In addition, I would stamp the backs of the photos that they are property of (your name and number) and that anyone who wants copies should contact you at the listed contact number for information.

To me, this is as low key as I can think to do this, without bringing up legal thoughts like copyright infringement to your church members.

That's my opinion on it....
I hope it all works outto your satisfaction.

Mark J

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

I knew this forum would be the best place to discuss this :-D. I love STF. You guys are always cool-headed.

I like the idea about posting my name and info by the pictures so people can have the opportunity to get the pictures they want for a good rate. I'm sure they are just unaware of the intricacies of pro photography. I never gave it much thought before the past couple of years. Maybe if I can handle this right it will turn into a positive and get me some good word of mouth. Heaven knows restraint is something I am having to learn. I envy those it comes naturally to!

Mark J said:

If your images are posted on the bulletin board, I would place a
note nearby the images, letting church members know that copies of
the images are available at your printing cost of 1.00 each and,
list your contact name and number. In addition, I would stamp the
backs of the photos that they are property of (your name and
number) and that anyone who wants copies should contact you at the
listed contact number for information.

To me, this is as low key as I can think to do this, without
bringing up legal thoughts like copyright infringement to your
church members.

That's my opinion on it....
I hope it all works outto your satisfaction.

Mark J

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Lisafx,

Many people are unaware of photos being copyrighted. Then again many are aware of it and could care less. I work in a small print shop and many people have come in to have a copyrighted photo made into a christmas card, invitation, or for other types of printing. When we tell them can't do it, it's copyrighted by the photographer...Their response is usually...So, who's gonna know, or I paid good money for this photo. My advise is a small visable watermark along the bottom stating Do Not Copy, Copyrighted by Lisafx. Any you sell should have this on the back of the photos.

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
Bill B
http://www.pbase.com/bill_b

Point taken. However, as part of my job in a university library, I am taking pictures of the ongoing construction of the new addition. I use mostly my own camera and go much work at my own expense but the library, indeed the university is free to do with the picture what they wish. Granted, there isn't any real commercial value involved but if they really wanted to, the pictures could wind up in other publications, even without acknowledgement.

Now, in lisafx's case, she is apparently unhappy that prints are being made without her consent. Her church knows these sales are happening (being in the church bulletin and all) so they must at least believe that the photos are theirs to do with what they wish or, given lisafx's silence, she has given her tacit approval. If that is in error, lisafx should speak up.

lisafx said:

Steven Blackwood said:

SInce these were taken by you for the church as part of your tithe,
the photos actually belong to the church and not you. Thus if there
is a violation, the church should handle it.

Click to expand...

Actually, that is not the understanding I have with the church.
The considerable time I invest in taking pictures at every church
function is the tithe. I don't deduct any of it on my taxes or
prepare a bill or anything, so maybe this would be better
charactarized as a gift. I am probably misunderstanding you,
because it sounds like you are saying any time I give away a print
or my time as a gift I am giving up the right to my intelectual
property. That was never part of the deal.

lisafx said:

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
Steve
[email protected]
Sony F717 Canon G3

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
Steve
[email protected]
Sony F717 Canon G3

Lisafx,

What great, down-to-earth responses. If you do bring it up with your church maybe you could print out some or all of the posts to bring them up to speed on some of the issues in a nice way.

Would that be legal?
--
Bob S.

I'm glad I was able to provide a point of view you found useful.

You know you can count on this forum for this kind of information and...
isn't it great ?

And since I was too lazy to update my profile and my email address is not listed, you are welcome to contact me via email if you find you need any further informtion or input......

[email protected]

Happy New Year!

Mark J

lisafx said:

I like the idea about posting my name and info by the pictures so
people can have the opportunity to get the pictures they want for a
good rate. I'm sure they are just unaware of the intricacies of
pro photography. I never gave it much thought before the past
couple of years. Maybe if I can handle this right it will turn
into a positive and get me some good word of mouth. Heaven knows
restraint is something I am having to learn. I envy those it comes
naturally to!

Mark J said:

If your images are posted on the bulletin board, I would place a
note nearby the images, letting church members know that copies of
the images are available at your printing cost of 1.00 each and,
list your contact name and number. In addition, I would stamp the
backs of the photos that they are property of (your name and
number) and that anyone who wants copies should contact you at the
listed contact number for information.

To me, this is as low key as I can think to do this, without
bringing up legal thoughts like copyright infringement to your
church members.

That's my opinion on it....
I hope it all works outto your satisfaction.

Mark J

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

Steven Blackwood said:

Point taken. However, as part of my job in a university library, I
am taking pictures of the ongoing construction of the new addition.
I use mostly my own camera and go much work at my own expense but
the library, indeed the university is free to do with the picture
what they wish. Granted, there isn't any real commercial value
involved but if they really wanted to, the pictures could wind up
in other publications, even without acknowledgement.

Now, in lisafx's case, she is apparently unhappy that prints are
being made without her consent. Her church knows these sales are
happening (being in the church bulletin and all) so they must at
least believe that the photos are theirs to do with what they wish
or, given lisafx's silence, she has given her tacit approval. If
that is in error, lisafx should speak up.

Click to expand...

Hi Steven;

I'm really not trying to pick on you. This is a really important issue for those who are trying to go pro or semi-pro with their photography. It amounts to stealing even if by some misguided individual who is a member of the same Church. I am sure this person would be highly embarrassed if it were pointed out to her that she had stolen from a fellow Church member.

I don't know what your actual position with the university is, but most institutions of high learning require employees to sign what amounts to a contract stating that anything produced while so employed is the sole property of the school. This is the case with many businesses too. Wouldn't do to have a camera man with one of the studios claim that the rights to a major motion picture belonged to him/her.

It really doesn't matter what the Church believes (certainly not talking about religous doctrine, don't even want to go there) the copyright laws are plain on who retains the rights to the pictures, unless a waiver is signed. Tacit approval is a poor argument in a court of law, but I doubt that Lisa wants to make an issue out of this. A subtle note on the bulletin board should suffice for most of the congregation. A water mark or signature on the photo will make it very hard to have the pictures copied for those that don't get the hint, and add an air of professionalism to the prints as well.
--
Brooks
F717, HP315, Minolta Maxxum 5000i

'We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more.' Pudd'nhead Wilson

Bill Borne said:

Lisafx,
Many people are unaware of photos being copyrighted. Then again
many are aware of it and could care less. I work in a small print
shop and many people have come in to have a copyrighted photo made
into a christmas card, invitation, or for other types of printing.
When we tell them can't do it, it's copyrighted by the
photographer...Their response is usually...So, who's gonna know, or
I paid good money for this photo. My advise is a small visable
watermark along the bottom stating Do Not Copy, Copyrighted by
Lisafx. Any you sell should have this on the back of the photos.

Click to expand...

Bill Borne said:

--
Bill B
http://www.pbase.com/bill_b

Click to expand...

If there is any question at all that the picture or document may be copyrighted we will not copy it. Unfortunately this has caused some rather ugly scenes and lost customers.
--
Brooks
F717, HP315, Minolta Maxxum 5000i

'We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it -- and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more.' Pudd'nhead Wilson

Steven Blackwood said:

SInce these were taken by you for the church as part of your tithe,
the photos actually belong to the church and not you. Thus if there
is a violation, the church should handle it.

Click to expand...

The actual photos belong to the church, but not "copyright." That would be like saying if I purchase a painting, I can make as many copies of it as I want and pass them out to all my friends. Not so. Just like my wedding pictures...I "own" my wedding portraits, but I can't reprint them without the permission of the photographer.

At least that's the way I understand copyright.

--
Cathie

Steven Blackwood said:

Now, in lisafx's case, she is apparently unhappy that prints are
being made without her consent. Her church knows these sales are
happening (being in the church bulletin and all) so they must at
least believe that the photos are theirs to do with what they wish
or, given lisafx's silence, she has given her tacit approval. If
that is in error, lisafx should speak up.

Click to expand...

These copies weren't made by the church or with the knowledge or approval of anyone officiallly connected with it. They were made by a congregant and given to others as a gift. As the person who WRITES the bulletin and the announcements, I can assure you that the only offers to copy the pictures are to buy them from me. I have not given tacit approval to any other use of my work because no one has ever attempted to do this with my pictures before. I am not giving my approval for what this woman did, I am simply taking my time to think over and discuss what the most appropriate way is to let this person know what the rules are regarding my property.

Steven Blackwood said:

lisafx said:

Steven Blackwood said:

SInce these were taken by you for the church as part of your tithe,
the photos actually belong to the church and not you. Thus if there
is a violation, the church should handle it.

Click to expand...

Actually, that is not the understanding I have with the church.
The considerable time I invest in taking pictures at every church
function is the tithe. I don't deduct any of it on my taxes or
prepare a bill or anything, so maybe this would be better
charactarized as a gift. I am probably misunderstanding you,
because it sounds like you are saying any time I give away a print
or my time as a gift I am giving up the right to my intelectual
property. That was never part of the deal.

Steven Blackwood said:

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
Steve
[email protected]
Sony F717 Canon G3

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

--
Steve
[email protected]
Sony F717 Canon G3

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Mark J said:

I'm glad I was able to provide a point of view you found useful.

You know you can count on this forum for this kind of information
and...
isn't it great ?

And since I was too lazy to update my profile and my email address
is not listed, you are welcome to contact me via email if you find
you need any further informtion or input......

Click to expand...

Thanks so much Mark! It is so nice when experienced pros are willing to help out those of us fledglings. Happy New Year to you too

Mark J said:

[email protected]

Happy New Year!

Mark J

lisafx said:

I like the idea about posting my name and info by the pictures so
people can have the opportunity to get the pictures they want for a
good rate. I'm sure they are just unaware of the intricacies of
pro photography. I never gave it much thought before the past
couple of years. Maybe if I can handle this right it will turn
into a positive and get me some good word of mouth. Heaven knows
restraint is something I am having to learn. I envy those it comes
naturally to!

Mark J said:

If your images are posted on the bulletin board, I would place a
note nearby the images, letting church members know that copies of
the images are available at your printing cost of 1.00 each and,
list your contact name and number. In addition, I would stamp the
backs of the photos that they are property of (your name and
number) and that anyone who wants copies should contact you at the
listed contact number for information.

To me, this is as low key as I can think to do this, without
bringing up legal thoughts like copyright infringement to your
church members.

That's my opinion on it....
I hope it all works outto your satisfaction.

Mark J

lisafx said:

I have been trying to get a local photo business going. Nothing
major, but I am hoping it will build. For about a year I have been
shooting all my church's events for free, as part of my tithe.
They reimburse me for the ink and paper to print them out. I then
post some of the best ones on the church bulliten board for
everyone to enjoy.

The other day I overheard a woman at my church telling her friend
how she had taken one of my pictures from the bulletin board, taken
it to have "enlargements" done and then given these enlargements as
Christmas gifts. This wasn't a picture of her, BTW, but of the
members she ended up "making the gift" for.

What should I do about this? I know she didn't mean any harm, but
I was really annoyed. Especially since I have made all the
pictures available to any church member who wants them at $1.00
each , which is my printing cost. I didn't say anything to her
because I didn't want to overreact. I am thinking about getting an
ink stamp and stamping the backs of all my pictures with the
copyright and the words "do not copy without written permission".
What do you all think?

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx
Canon S20, Sony S75, F707