Reading mode: Light Dark

Does anyone have a X10 pic or seen one online that has the following components......

Go to last post
ljclark said:
rattymouse said:
ljclark said:
Hoboken Michelle said:
I do not wish to be referred to that pic by rattymouse in the mall where the orb is located near the guy's midsection (thank you for the pic anyway, rattymouse).
Click to expand...
Where I would expect them to pop up is in a situation where you have a fairly tight light source and when you are shooting at lower ISOs -- ISO 100 certainly and then less of a problem as you increase ISO. In my experience, they are gone by ISO 800,
Click to expand...
You are incorrect.

More RDFB nonsense. You apparently have no interest in good quality images free from defects . I suggest to you that 99.9% of the people who spend $600 or more want a camera that can outperform a $100 camera. The X10, laughably and demonstrably, CANNOT capture light as well as a cheapo camera.
Click to expand...
Actually, when I get home from work, I'll post some pictures, taken under controlled conditions, that demonstrate that orbs generated by specular highlights indeed DO go away at higher ISOs.
Click to expand...
No need. You see, I have ISO800 images that show ORBS . Your demonstration is unlikely to change this.
ljclark said:
I'm reading a bit into the OP's intent, but unless Michelle intends to surgically implant light bulbs into the skull or body of the human subjects, specular highlights will be the orb issue.

Meanwhile, keep hunting those orbs -- or recycling those same old photos. :)
Click to expand...
I have had my X10 for exactly 2 shooting days. Trust me, there will be a LOT more ORB photos in the future. ORB defenders are not going to win this one because X10 owners sadly have unlimited ammunition. My X10 is going on several overseas trips and you can bet every last shilling that the copious amount of ORB photos this camera makes will be publicized here.
ljclark said:
(BTW...The X10 is my next-to-cheapest camera. And it certainly outperforms my cheapest camera. But then, I'm not that much into photographic self-abuse.)
Click to expand...
Nonsense. NO camera ORBS like the X10. You have no credibility.

--

http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/
 
Trevor G said:
John Carson said:
I looked at the first and third of these images in Photoshop.

In the first, the light has RGB values of around 239.
Click to expand...
Trevor G said:
In the third, the light has RGB values of around 224. >
Click to expand...
Trevor G said:
I don't know what processing went into these images, but a minimum requirement for sensor blooming is that highlights actually be blown.
Click to expand...
Possibly because the images were reduced in Silkypix by 0.4EV and 0.9EV, from the original JPEGs, because these were originally posted for artistic purposes..

The original JPEGs clip the bright lights anyway, so that their real intensity was much higher. I have RAWs as well for many of them to show this.
Trevor G said:
Your light source doesn't seem very intense at all.
Click to expand...
Then I guess that shows that you have:

1) Never beeen in an engineering workshop - they like lots of light to work by;

2) Never seen a high intensity light (I'm not sure which sort it is but I'll ask Jesse) as in the first image, with a clear, glass canopy

3) Never looked directly into a bright light of any sort. ;-)
Click to expand...
You are being a jerk, as you so often are, but let that pass.

Let me re-phrase. The light source doesn't seem much brighter than its surroundings. Nay, the light source isn't much brighter than its surroundings. This can be checked with RGB values.

If you can reduce exposure to the point where the light source isn't very bright, then of course you won't have sensor blooming. Normally where orbs are a problem this will make the whole image very dark, as Gary points out. If, however, the whole area is very bright (perhaps due to numerous light sources), then you can reduce exposure sufficiently to make the light sources not-very-bright while leaving the rest of the image looking OK.

To sum up: you appear to have simply shot a relatively low contrast scene in which sensor blooming is not likely to be much of a problem.

--
john carson
 
rattymouse said:
Member said:
Trevor G wrote:

It must be tough for those who want to shoot in shopping centres, for instance. That is strictly prohibited in Australia...so I can't say how to get around potential white disc issues there.
Click to expand...
Interesting. A potential ORB solution is to move to a country that is LESS free than communist China. I shot all yesterday afternoon in a shopping mall in COMMUNIST China.
Click to expand...
There is no general ban on photographing in shopping centres in Australia.

However, shopping centres are private property and, as on private property generally, the owners have the right to make the rules about what you are and aren't allowed to do on their property as a condition of being allowed to remain on that property.

--
john carson
 
John Carson said:
rattymouse said:
John Carson said:
Trevor G wrote:

It must be tough for those who want to shoot in shopping centres, for instance. That is strictly prohibited in Australia...so I can't say how to get around potential white disc issues there.
Click to expand...
Interesting. A potential ORB solution is to move to a country that is LESS free than communist China. I shot all yesterday afternoon in a shopping mall in COMMUNIST China.
Click to expand...
There is no general ban on photographing in shopping centres in Australia.

However, shopping centres are private property and, as on private property generally, the owners have the right to make the rules about what you are and aren't allowed to do on their property as a condition of being allowed to remain on that property.
Click to expand...
Thanks John. It seems Trevor's inability to speak the truth extends to far more than cameras.
 
GaryJP said:
Well spotted.

The orbs are ALWAYS over 255 RGB.
Click to expand...
Technically, that is impossible, since 255 is peak white. No part of an image can ever register over 255.

Not in JPEG, not in RAW.

You are also forgetting that X10 RAWs have at least 2.7EV of headroom.

Check image 1286 and the intensity of the light. It should be 255 (as it is on my PC) even though I have already brought the RAW back by 1.7EV, with still more available if I wanted to.

That hasn't made the rest of the image black, now, has it!
GaryJP said:
And you often can't get them lower without making the rest of the image black.
Click to expand...
--
Cheers ;-)

Trevor G

Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com
 
rattymouse said:
No need. You see, I have ISO800 images that show ORBS . Your demonstration is unlikely to change this.
Click to expand...
No one would try to prove white discs don't exist.

What we can show everyone is that the X10 can shoot directly into bright lights and not show a single white disc.

I have done exactly that. Plenty of times. And I can keep doing it because the X10 does it without complaint. And no white discs.

It is unlikely that your personal vendetta against Fuji will bring you any tangible benefit.

After all, that is the real reason you bought a camera that you knew, in your own terms, to be defective.

--
Cheers ;-)

Trevor G

Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com
 
Trevor G said:
GaryJP said:
Well spotted.

The orbs are ALWAYS over 255 RGB.
Click to expand...
Technically, that is impossible, since 255 is peak white. No part of an image can ever register over 255.
Click to expand...
The point being that sensor blooming occurs when the well capacity is exceeded — which would give a reading above 255 if the scale permitted it.
Trevor G said:
Not in JPEG, not in RAW.

You are also forgetting that X10 RAWs have at least 2.7EV of headroom.

Check image 1286 and the intensity of the light. It should be 255 (as it is on my PC) even though I have already brought the RAW back by 1.7EV, with still more available if I wanted to.

That hasn't made the rest of the image black, now, has it!
Click to expand...
Which simply means that it wasn't a high contrast image. Orbs arise in (very) high contrast images. The darker areas cause the metering to be sufficiently bright to cause sensor overflow in the bright areas.

--
john carson
 
Trevor G said:
rattymouse said:
No need. You see, I have ISO800 images that show ORBS . Your demonstration is unlikely to change this.
Click to expand...
No one would try to prove white discs don't exist.

What we can show everyone is that the X10 can shoot directly into bright lights and not show a single white disc.
Click to expand...
Of course it can. Plainly, if you meter for the bright lights, then you won't get sensor blooming. If you meter for something that is quite bright relative to the lights, then you still won't get sensor blooming. Broadly speaking, the problem should arise only when a scene has very high contrast.

--
john carson
 
John Carson said:
Hoboken Michelle said:
As per my other ongoing thread in this Forum (X10 perfect for ME), I would really like to know if anyone out there has a X10 pic or seen one online that has the following simple components: is a Group or Portrait shot AND the person/people's hair, face, clothes and/or skin was/were directly affected by the orb problem?
Click to expand...
It depends simply on whether there is a suitably bright light source located in or near the line of sight from the camera to the person. Plainly that is possible and I have seen a shot where an orb intruded into a person's head (though I can't locate it now), but it would be hard to give a reliable estimate of its likelihood.

--
john carson
Click to expand...
Maybe this photo? Taken at CES with the X10 display camera and shown to the Fuji representative on site...



 
Trevor and Clark,

Guys, I do NOT want to be taking sides in this argument but if you wish to argue the "no orbs" case or "not important orbs" case, take your discussion to my other thread (perfect for ME). I posted this particular thread to get specific info about images that have particular specs to them.

The engineering pic clearly has nothing to do with anything that I (the OP) was seeking the initial post. You can try to argue otherwise, but your particular attacks in this particular thread is really starting to get to me. I do NOT mind them in other threads, but this thread is particularly meant to see pics with orbs in portraits, so please do not input sidebar issues or continue previous arguments in them. I will only accept feedback from you guys (and the pro X10) crowd if it directly addresses issues, such as the orbs in the attractive woman's eyes, etc.

I plead and expect that you and your minions will continue your full-fledged arguments on other threads (which I will gladly review, if not necessarily comment on) but please leave this one for the specific posting I made.

Again, people...seeking pics in particular as per my original posting. I am NOT refusing criticism of the "orb criticizers" but want to keep you all on track with what I am interested in!

Thank you,
Michelle
 
John Carson said:
Of course it can. Plainly, if you meter for the bright lights, then you won't get sensor blooming.
Click to expand...
But I didn't meter for the bright lights.

I use Average metering exclusively now, although some of these images could have been exposed with Multi. That still is not spot metering. I never use spot metering.

I never use exposure lock, either. As you see it is as it was metered.

The point of this exercise is to show that you can shoot in adverse lighting conditions, without using any special techniques, and not get white discs.

Unless you call using DR400 a special technique. I just call it commonsense use of the standout feature of the X10's sensor.

I use DR400 all the time. I cannot understand why anyone would use DR100. Ever.

--
Cheers ;-)

Trevor G

Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com
 
Although this camera is fascinating to me, the whole orbs issue really is showing up for me outside of this online forum (and the computer).

Personal, personal case in point. Looking at myself in the mirror this morning post-shower, naked upper torso and even I laughed a little and shook my head when I peered at my chest and a word lit up in lights in my head "ORBS"!

Holy crap...it's all too much, and yet I still seek more info for my own camera buying purposes. And no, I will not send a self-portrait to you guys (of me glaring into the mirror post-shower)! Sorry...been there, done that (oops, too much info there). Even though this IS IN FACT party-town USA...Hoboken, New Jersey!

Hoboken-Michelle
 
Trevor G said:
The point of this exercise is to show that you can shoot in adverse lighting conditions, without using any special techniques, and not get white discs.
Click to expand...
Trevor,

Since you and I were writing ten minutes ago at the same minute I'll give you a break on this one, but I do request that you, Clark and the others follow my warning post concerning keeping this directly on-topic. I do not appreciate your above quote only because it is getting off my topic and you are kind'a hijacking it. Please re-read my post a couple postings up (directly to you and Clark).

Thank you for your consideration and - although you will be handicapped a bit, since I am asking for orbs - you still are welcome to comment as long as you do not go off on the same tangent, but address issues at hand (such as the orbs in the women's eyes). That is MY concern, my original post...has nothing to do with your shooting style.

IN other words, restaurants, house parties, even nightclubs, bars....those environments with group or single portrait pics. Not engineering factories. You do not have to prove yourself to me - believe me - even if I am slanting in the direction of receiving pics with orbs.

Thanks again,
Michelle
 
Trevor G said:
John Carson said:
Of course it can. Plainly, if you meter for the bright lights, then you won't get sensor blooming.
Click to expand...
But I didn't meter for the bright lights.
Click to expand...
Try reading the next bit.
Trevor G said:
Trevor G said:
If you meter for something that is quite bright relative to the lights, then you still won't get sensor blooming. Broadly speaking, the problem should arise only when a scene has very high contrast.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Trevor G said:
I use Average metering exclusively now, although some of these images could have been exposed with Multi. That still is not spot metering. I never use spot metering.
Click to expand...
Good for you. My point remains. That point has nothing to do with techniques of metering. It has to do with how the camera metered. If the camera is averaging over a bright but low contrast image, then you get a short exposure and little chance of sensor blooming.
Trevor G said:
The point of this exercise is to show that you can shoot in adverse lighting conditions, without using any special techniques, and not get white discs.
Click to expand...
Then you failed. The "adverse lighting conditions" must be high contrast. You need a light that is really bright relative to its surrounds.

You made a show of pointing out that engineering workshops have "lots of light". It doesn't appear that way in your shot. The exposure has darkened the whole image, thus taming the lights, and the relatively low contrast nature of your subject has allowed you to get away with it.

There has been an abundance of images showing that orbs arise very easily from this camera in night shooting where you have bright lights and significantly darker areas. There is nothing unusual about the subject matter of these images, yet they constitute actual "adverse lighting conditions" from the point of view of orb production and we have seen orb production aplenty.

--
john carson
 
John Carson said:
Trevor G said:
GaryJP said:
Well spotted.

The orbs are ALWAYS over 255 RGB.
Click to expand...
Technically, that is impossible, since 255 is peak white. No part of an image can ever register over 255.
Click to expand...
The point being that sensor blooming occurs when the well capacity is exceeded — which would give a reading above 255 if the scale permitted it.
Click to expand...
And also, no matter how much you reduce exposure, either in RAW or JPEG, they do NOT come down.
John Carson said:
Which simply means that it wasn't a high contrast image. Orbs arise in (very) high contrast images. The darker areas cause the metering to be sufficiently bright to cause sensor overflow in the bright areas.
Click to expand...
One day, he'll get it.

Or maybe denial is where he lives.
--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
Hoboken Michelle said:
The engineering pic clearly has nothing to do with anything that I (the OP) was seeking the initial post.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure of your digital photographic background.

Of course the X10 will, in some circumstances, produce a highlight blowout which extends into an adjacent region, such as the example of a light "cutting into" the side of someone's head now posted in this thread.

However, that action is not unique to the X10. Any digital camera will produce the same effect, under the right (or wrong) circumstances.

If you look at the engineering image with a light beside the guy's head, it has not bloomed on the X10.

If you look at the image of the 4 guys in the church, you will see that light spill from the window has affected the straight sides of the window. That is not a peculiarly X10 phenomenon - that is a characteristic of any digital camera.

Here is a matching pic from my Nikon D700, a very highly regarded full frame sensor camera that sells for $2500 body only, and is not regarded as being "faulty" in any way that I know of. It was matched with a $1500 highly regarded lens.





Note the support poles for the marquee, and how their size is diminished by light spill.

Look at the legs of the trestle table for the same effect.

I'm sure if I spend the time to go through my images I will find more, with people, which show the same sort of thing from the D700.

Every single camera review in dpreview has at least one image showing this very effect or defect. They usually choose tree branches, but they could use people framed against a bright light, too.

--
Cheers ;-)

Trevor G

Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com
 
DS21 said:
John Carson said:
It depends simply on whether there is a suitably bright light source located in or near the line of sight from the camera to the person. Plainly that is possible and I have seen a shot where an orb intruded into a person's head (though I can't locate it now), but it would be hard to give a reliable estimate of its likelihood.

--
john carson
Click to expand...
Maybe this photo? Taken at CES with the X10 display camera and shown to the Fuji representative on site...



Click to expand...
I found the one I saw before. There is motion blur confusing the issue somewhat, but the effect is still clear:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=40171668

--
john carson
 
Hoboken Michelle said:
Trevor,

Since you and I were writing ten minutes ago at the same minute I'll give you a break on this one,
Click to expand...
Thanks, Michelle.

I'm not sure if you are going to report me for thread hijacking ;-) but may I respectfully point out that, even though you started this thread, you own neither it nor its content.

I believe it is valid to demonstrate that it is possible to shoot the X10 without white discs, even if you want someone to show how big or how many they can get.
Hoboken Michelle said:
Thank you for your consideration and - although you will be handicapped a bit, since I am asking for orbs - you still are welcome to comment as long as you do not go off on the same tangent, but address issues at hand (such as the orbs in the women's eyes).
Click to expand...
If you look closely, there are highlights reflected in Jesse's glasses in image 1286 which, once again, have not turned into white discs. It seems you are presupposing that all X10 images result in white discs or light spill - they do not, and need not.

Sorry for stepping on your toes... ;-)

--
Cheers ;-)

Trevor G

Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top