Lens or better lighting?

At this age i just like to get some shots of dd. There may be alot of action under the net. But alot of bodies, back of heads. LOL I shoot high speed continuous. But not alot of what I would want to keep. Someone seems to get in the way of MY subject. lol sometimes I sit on the end to get them coming towards me. Then can shoot them at my end. I'm hoping to shoot dd at our home tournament in the hs gym. Hoping they come out better. I'm sure i will be posting again!

kb2zuz said:

Multi-SportsMom said:

I do know how to use CWB. But never in a gym. Do I need to do it in the middle of the gym. Or can I do it from the bleachers?

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If the lighting is roughly the same (more particularly the type of lights and the color, doesn't have to be exactly as bright). If they have a different type of light over the bleachers than they do over the court it won't work.

kb2zuz said:

The second shots. I slowed my shutter speed and closed down my ap as to see how the sharpness would be at 2.8. Left the ISO the same. I forget how many stops each was as to make sure it was the same. But it was also a different gym. Honestly dont remember if I exposed to the right as I usually do.

"If you don't like your photos, you are not close enough." YES I can get good shots when I am pretty close. I got some sharp ones playing with it at home. My longer shots dont usually come out very good. Whats the trick for want more subject(s) in the shot, hense needing to be closer. When a smaller ap would not work because of lighting? Seating is limited at most games and changing places impossible most times. I try to sit in the middle to be close to both sides. Doesnt help shooting from the side instead of top/bottom of the court doesnt help.

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It's a matter of preferences, but I feel mid court you can get average shots of either side. But most of the actions happen closer to the nets. If you go closer to one goal, yes you likely get worse (or completely miss) some shots that happen at the other goal, but the shots that happen at the goal right by you will look a lot better. I'm of the opinion where i prefer to get a couple really great shots than to get a bunch of mediocre shots, and I try not to mind if I completely miss a shot that might happen on the other end. Keep in mind, I'm coming from a point of view where I don't have kids and I just would want to get good shots of whoever. You being a parent might disagree, because if your child makes the game winning shot on the other end of the court, missing that shot (or getting a bad shot of it) may mean you prefer to stick to mid-court. Everything in photography is a trade off.

kb2zuz said:

Thanks for all the ideas. I will be Pro by the time my grandkids play BB!

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I'm certain you will. Best of luck
--
~K

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kb2zuz said:

• Custom white balance... learn how to do it. Bring a white sheet of paper or a grey card, use it to make a custom white balance in the gym lighting... the colors will look a lot better and pop more. Gym lighting can be horrible in color so a custom white balance can help a lot.

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The OP shot in RAW. I don't think custom white balance would change anything.

kb2zuz said:

• Some of your shots are underexposed. If the lighting is pretty much consistent around the court, using manual exposure may prevent accidental under exposure. But, only use manual if you are sure that the lighting is very even, if you see that some areas of the court are darker, stick to aperture priority.

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Most gyms use mercury vapor lights for efficiency reason. They have two problems.

1. They have lousy color rendering index (CRI). That means you can never get perfect color balance no matter how you adjust it.
2. They probably use older magnetic ballasts instead of modern electronic ballasts. These lights flicker at 120 Hz (twice the AC line frequency). At shutter speeds faster than 1/125s, you will catch the lights at some portion of the power cycle. You cannot get consistent exposure regardless of auto or manual.

Under this less than ideal condition, the OP did a great job in capturing the game.

kb2zuz said:

--
~K

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--
Peter Kwok
http://www.pbase.com/peterkwok
WYSIWYG - If you don't like what you get, try to see differently.

So true.

I will try not to blame myself but the cruddy gym lighting!

Peter Kwok said:

kb2zuz said:

• Custom white balance... learn how to do it. Bring a white sheet of paper or a grey card, use it to make a custom white balance in the gym lighting... the colors will look a lot better and pop more. Gym lighting can be horrible in color so a custom white balance can help a lot.

Click to expand...

The OP shot in RAW. I don't think custom white balance would change anything.

Peter Kwok said:

• Some of your shots are underexposed. If the lighting is pretty much consistent around the court, using manual exposure may prevent accidental under exposure. But, only use manual if you are sure that the lighting is very even, if you see that some areas of the court are darker, stick to aperture priority.

Click to expand...

Most gyms use mercury vapor lights for efficiency reason. They have two problems.

1. They have lousy color rendering index (CRI). That means you can never get perfect color balance no matter how you adjust it.
2. They probably use older magnetic ballasts instead of modern electronic ballasts. These lights flicker at 120 Hz (twice the AC line frequency). At shutter speeds faster than 1/125s, you will catch the lights at some portion of the power cycle. You cannot get consistent exposure regardless of auto or manual.

Under this less than ideal condition, the OP did a great job in capturing the game.

Peter Kwok said:

--
~K

Click to expand...

--
Peter Kwok
http://www.pbase.com/peterkwok
WYSIWYG - If you don't like what you get, try to see differently.

Click to expand...

Not sure what to think about these. They look underexposed? To much contrast? I exposed to the right. Maybe its the white uniforms throwing things off. These boys move fast. So much more than the 6th grade girls the other day. I had trouble getting focus/keeping focus on the player I was shooting.
I need to go back and learn about the histogram again. Your thoughts on these?













And sweet success..

Multi-SportsMom said:

Not sure what to think about these.

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Hey, your settings look really good. Enough shutter speed to stop most blur, without pushing your ISO through the roof.

Multi-SportsMom said:

They look underexposed?

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Mebbe a tad (if you haven't done any adjustments in Post yet).

Multi-SportsMom said:

To much contrast?

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Too Little if anything. Those lighting conditions (and high ISO) will do that to you. You could also add some Saturation as well (the skin is pretty pasty, of course it's the middle of Winter though!).

Multi-SportsMom said:

I exposed to the right. Maybe its the white uniforms throwing things off.

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Well, you want to expose for the skin tones. Stay in Manual Mode.

Multi-SportsMom said:

These boys move fast.

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And it only gets more challenging the older they get. AI Servo and back button AF reign king.

Multi-SportsMom said:

I had trouble getting focus/keeping focus on the player I was shooting.

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I can see that. All of the action photos are Back-focused. Test your lens for FF/BF.

The kids may also be running right through your DOF too. If you are shooting mainly "approaching" shots for a while, one trick that I use is to set some ( - ) MFA to compensate for the quickly approaching targets. Of course, you have to remember to set it back to "normal" for different types of shots. Can't do it on the fly either.

Multi-SportsMom said:

Your thoughts on these?

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With really fast moving players, you might also want to dial in some ( - ) MFA and focus on the jersey numbers. I do this quite a bit actually, and the DOF plane adjustment usually nets me quite a few more keepers. The high contrast lettering makes a much better AF target for the camera.

Endeavor to Persevere!

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

These are better exposed than the previous shots, sufficient to need only moderate improvement in PP. Yes, it's difficult to achieve good focus on moving targets, but I think a bigger problem in some of these is the 1/400 shutter. That's not fast enough for sharp action images unless you're really good at panning.

--
http://jackandkelly.zenfolio.com/

Thanks, I debated using a higher SS. I will have to jump it to 500 for the boys

I have used the lens before and I was able to get sharp shots. So i think its user error.

I used to use the center focus point but changed to the for right, so when shooting verticle its on top. So I can focus on the face. When using the center focus point the shots didnt seem equally sharp. Body sharp, face/head not. Not to mention i had trouble keeping the shot straight not cutting off feet etc.

I do use BFF and meter for the skin.

Yes up her in the winter we are pasty white.

Can your someone explain this..

"With really fast moving players, you might also want to dial in some ( - ) MFA"

Multi-SportsMom said:

I used to use the center focus point but changed to the for right

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That may be part of the issue too (or at least a complicating factor). When using AI Servo, Canon states that for AF tracking, focus must always be "first acquired using the Center AF point."

Multi-SportsMom said:

When using the center focus point the shots didnt seem equally sharp. Body sharp, face/head not.

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Be sure to check for FF/BF (at the distances you normally shoot at). Gotta rule that out at least.

Multi-SportsMom said:

Not to mention i had trouble keeping the shot straight not cutting off feet etc.

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Sports photography certainly takes some skill (one that I haven't mastered either, LOL). I still get plenty of shots like you posted.

Multi-SportsMom said:

I do use BFF and meter for the skin.

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Caucasian skin is about a stop brighter than neutral grey, so make sure that you compensate (if you aren't already). That way you'll be less apt to underexpose.

Multi-SportsMom said:

Yes up her in the winter we are pasty white.

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Yup (from Wis.), we sure envy those gulf coast folks!

Multi-SportsMom said:

Can your someone explain this..

"With really fast moving players, you might also want to dial in some ( - ) MFA"

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Don't forget the part about "focusing on the jersey numbers."

Players lean, and most of the time the face is forward of the jersey. Adding some ( - ) MFA puts the DOF on the face instead of the jersey. Of course whether or not one would use this technique depends entirely on where you position yourself. I like to use it when I'm under the basket, at the corner of the "Box", or sometimes when I'm near the 3-point line. From the bench (or stands), it is useless or worse.

Mebbe give it a whirl once you get the standard AF down pat.

Good luck,
R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

Ok i had a duh moment..

Check where the focus point landed. (enter embarrassed smiley). The focus point didnt land where I hoped. I think using the center point would have made more sense. Seeing these kids move and bend so much. So its was user error. But thats a good thing and can be changed next time.

But I do worry about using an app of 2.0. Isnt it hard to get "enough" in focus?
As stated above they bend, their head is forward, body/jersey back.

Also using AI Servo, with a white uniform, the camera is going to have a hard time of focusing? As such a small part is showing to grab focus. Yea?

And for fun.. These are my first BB shots back in 2007. Hopefully I have improved a little.

Multi-SportsMom said:

Can your someone explain this..

"With really fast moving players, you might also want to dial in some ( - ) MFA"

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MFA stands for Micro Focus Adjust which is a setting that allows you to correct focusing on lenses that are slightly miscalibrated (meaning they always focus in front of or behind where they are supposed to). You can also use it to focus on things that are always in front of or behind something else you would like to use as a focus target, which is what R2D2 is saying (beeping?) about with respect to the jersey numbers.

Ok I have tested it on other lenses. But not for that.

kidcharles said:

Multi-SportsMom said:

Can your someone explain this..

"With really fast moving players, you might also want to dial in some ( - ) MFA"

Click to expand...

MFA stands for Micro Focus Adjust which is a setting that allows you to correct focusing on lenses that are slightly miscalibrated (meaning they always focus in front of or behind where they are supposed to). You can also use it to focus on things that are always in front of or behind something else you would like to use as a focus target, which is what R2D2 is saying (beeping?) about with respect to the jersey numbers.

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