Work around for D7000 overexposure

TFergus said:

nfpotter said:

NikonScavenger said:

under the same conditions and using virtually the same glass my D300 doesn't overexpose, and neither does my 5D mkI, and in fact BOTH of those cameras meter very well without me having to fiddle with them, except in low light where the D300 falls off very fast. i find it odd that the d7000, when set up like the other two blows highlights on bright florida days.

while i appreciate the sentiment to meter everything manually, it's easier for me not to have to, and why should i use a camera that can't do it in all conditions, when i have two that can do it pretty damn well? why have things like AF when autofocus is theoretically better? i could also walk around with a light meter like i used to in my high school days.

i'm guessing that aside from the fact that i'm not dedicated enough to meter manually, and the fact that the overexposure issue is a myth, it's back to the mark I, which refuses to die after all these years and produces reliable results nearly 100% of the time.

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I've said it a 1000 times, guess I'll have to say it again.

A camera DOES NOT OVEREXPOSE. The person behind camera does.

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When someone throws their camera in one of those goofy "scene modes" under Matrix metering, and the camera says " ok, this is what the exposure should be.. HIT THE BUTTON! "

You are going to get upset and keep posting that it's the shooters fault ?

Maybe it's the shooter's fault for trusting Nikon when it said "auto-metering".

I'm not talking about adapting to how "off" the camera is... we all do that.
I'm talking about the camera.

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If someone is buying a D7K and using the scene modes, they should have bought a P&S.

I am not "upset". This is not an emotional issue for me. I'm trying to bring a little LOGIC to the discussion. You are doing the opposite.

When you're trying to remove a bolt from an engine, and you slip and bang your knuckles, I suppose it's the rachet's fault, right?

When I'm playing my Gibson Les Paul for years, and then someone hands me a Strat, I guess it's the Strat's fault if I'm not as comfortable playing it.

This is completely silly. You camera has a built-in light meter. Learn to use it, and stop letting the camera make decisions for you.

nfpotter said:

TFergus said:

nfpotter said:

NikonScavenger said:

under the same conditions and using virtually the same glass my D300 doesn't overexpose, and neither does my 5D mkI, and in fact BOTH of those cameras meter very well without me having to fiddle with them, except in low light where the D300 falls off very fast. i find it odd that the d7000, when set up like the other two blows highlights on bright florida days.

while i appreciate the sentiment to meter everything manually, it's easier for me not to have to, and why should i use a camera that can't do it in all conditions, when i have two that can do it pretty damn well? why have things like AF when autofocus is theoretically better? i could also walk around with a light meter like i used to in my high school days.

i'm guessing that aside from the fact that i'm not dedicated enough to meter manually, and the fact that the overexposure issue is a myth, it's back to the mark I, which refuses to die after all these years and produces reliable results nearly 100% of the time.

Click to expand...

I've said it a 1000 times, guess I'll have to say it again.

A camera DOES NOT OVEREXPOSE. The person behind camera does.

Click to expand...

When someone throws their camera in one of those goofy "scene modes" under Matrix metering, and the camera says " ok, this is what the exposure should be.. HIT THE BUTTON! "

You are going to get upset and keep posting that it's the shooters fault ?

Maybe it's the shooter's fault for trusting Nikon when it said "auto-metering".

I'm not talking about adapting to how "off" the camera is... we all do that.
I'm talking about the camera.

Click to expand...

If someone is buying a D7K and using the scene modes, they should have bought a P&S.

Click to expand...

Why... it's an entry-level camera. Scene modes and all. They just moved up from a P&S.

nfpotter said:

I am not "upset".

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Ok. The capital letters confused me then.

nfpotter said:

When you're trying to remove a bolt from an engine, and you slip and bang your knuckles, I suppose it's the rachet's fault, right?

Click to expand...

No.. the engine's.

nfpotter said:

When I'm playing my Gibson Les Paul for years, and then someone hands me a Strat, I guess it's the Strat's fault if I'm not as comfortable playing it.

Click to expand...

Gibson, eh... I took you for a PRS guy.

Fender and Gibson here, Jackson days seem over, but Gretsch White Falcon when it calls for it... unless I sell it for a D800 and a few lenses.

nfpotter said:

This is completely silly. You camera has a built-in light meter. Learn to use it, and stop letting the camera make decisions for you.

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I agree with you 150%.
My only point was Nikon calls it "auto-exposure".

They provide scene modes on it's entry levels, and say "turn it to portrait for portraits... or night portraits for night portraits"... or whatever the heck they are...
Then the person shoots and it's overexposed.

Of course it's easy to blame the person, cuz you and I wouldn't trust the camera, we know better.

I just think that when someone is learning exposure and comes here for help, there are better ways than starting a "non-upset" rant with.. "I've said it 1000 times!"

TFergus said:

I agree with you 150%.
My only point was Nikon calls it "auto-exposure".

They provide scene modes on it's entry levels, and say "turn it to portrait for portraits... or night portraits for night portraits"... or whatever the heck they are...
Then the person shoots and it's overexposed.

Of course it's easy to blame the person, cuz you and I wouldn't trust the camera, we know better.

I just think that when someone is learning exposure and comes here for help, there are better ways than starting a "non-upset" rant with.. "I've said it 1000 times!"

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Not sure about anyone else but I would find it useful to see some samples of these overexposed shots..

I'm not doubting they are over exposed or the metering issues are present (seen a few complaints on this)

Barry Fitzgerald said:

TFergus said:

I agree with you 150%.
My only point was Nikon calls it "auto-exposure".

They provide scene modes on it's entry levels, and say "turn it to portrait for portraits... or night portraits for night portraits"... or whatever the heck they are...
Then the person shoots and it's overexposed.

Of course it's easy to blame the person, cuz you and I wouldn't trust the camera, we know better.

I just think that when someone is learning exposure and comes here for help, there are better ways than starting a "non-upset" rant with.. "I've said it 1000 times!"

Click to expand...

Not sure about anyone else but I would find it useful to see some samples of these overexposed shots..

I'm not doubting they are over exposed or the metering issues are present (seen a few complaints on this)

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Agreed. Always easier to help people if they have examples.
My D80 does the same in Matrix but I learned fast and accounted for it.

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Not sure about anyone else but I would find it useful to see some samples of these overexposed shots..

I'm not doubting they are over exposed or the metering issues are present (seen a few complaints on this)

Click to expand...

They're like the dpreview samples. RAW, aperture priority, 12-bit compressed NEF images, camera centered dead at 0EV, matrix metering. Highlights get blown, apparently it was explained that after a certain level of brightness (super sunny days as we get on the beach in Florida with the sand or ocean reflecting the light) the camera tends to blow the matrix metering and you need center-weighted-average. I was more concerned with WHY that was happening, or why I suddenly had to switch to center weighted average when every other camera seemed to have no trouble with matrix metering in similar situations.

So, what's the problem again? I have always dialed in a -.3 to a -.7 EV on every body I've ever owned. I like darker exposure better than averaged. DSLRs are designed to be user adjustable. Isn't that one of the reasons you bought a DSLR and not a point n shoot?

I honestly don't understand some of the questions I read here. If you want an auto everything camera, buy an iPhone. oh wait! You might have to pinch your fingers to zoom! The HORRORS NEVER END!

BRAVO! ( nt)

I've had trouble getting reasonable exposures in harsh outdoor light on both the D90 and D7000 - mainly with blowing out the sky - while using matrix metering.

I can't from experience recommend a preset setting that fixes this in matrix metering, but if matrix metering is important, I would definitely give the ADL auto setting a try (or maybe setting it to "high" or extra high).

The D7000 comes with ADL switched on by default, if I remember correctly, and my guess would be that it's meant in particular to be used if using matrix metering in harsh lighting.

I think Mako2011's words "I shoot Raw and have a tendency to use ADL so find no exposure issue ." are well worth noting.

I've not experimented with ADL much myself. I've used "set exposure comp/manual exposure, check the histogram, rinse, repeat" in the past, but I find it easier now to use spot metering and AE-lock to get a good exposure. This has been working quite nicely.

What I do is:

• spot metering mode,
• AE lock button set to AF-on (only)
• half shutter press set to AE lock.
• point the camera so the active focus point is over something about the same lightness as a road or grass in sunlight, or the bluest part of the sky, or something I want to look bright and well lit in the frame.
• half press the shutter to lock the exposure
• focus, frame and shoot.

For me, this seems to produce a good exposure in less time and less shots than getting the right exposure compensation or manual exposure by trial and error - other more expert photographers will have ways that work better for them, no doubt.

I always have my D7000 at -0.7 EV for outdoors, since I almost always want the sky and clouds visible. For indoors, I might go 0 or +0.3EV. For high ISO (6400+), I'll actually go +0.7-1.0 EV if the shutter speed is acceptable. I find that dropping exposure in post actually lessens the appearance of noise, especially chroma.

In bright, high contrast situations, use center weighted metering. The OP mentioned "work around" and that is the work around. You simply change your metering to center weighted in bright conditions. That simple change does not "fix" the matrix metering "problem" in bright conditions, but it does work very well, and is incredibly easy to do. Once you are in center weighted metering mode just don't put the center point on a shadow area. If the center must be a shadow area then simply meter off from a brighter area, use exposure lock, and re-compose.

By the way, I have owned many cameras and the notion that all other cameras will meter perfectly in bright, high contrast situations is simply false. In fact, in bright conditions any camera can make a metering mistake, some tend to under expose and some tend to over expose. Once a photographer knows his camera's tendencies he makes adjustments accordingly.

D7000 exposure gets compared
http://vimeo.com/17663694
--
TheVancouverGuy

Sorry didn't read the whole thread but I'd choose a different metering method and put your camera in manual and zero the meter out. Test shot and adjust from there....

Bill
--
Bill Wallace

http://bwallace.zenfolio.com/

"I'd rather laugh with the Sinners than cry with the Saints"

NikonScavenger said:

I live in Florida and do a lot of landscape photography outdoors and my D7k does the usual overexposure bit. I found that one workaround is to underexpose by 1/3 to 2/3 stop, but that doesn't work consistently and I have yet to figure out what causes this problem to happen. A subject in front of a bright background causes everything to be washed out and overexposed by 1 to 2 EV, as if I have spot metering turned on, I found, but otherwise it's hit and miss. Anyone has a good preset setting to work around this? I've resorted to using my D300 on bright days to avoid this.

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I feel the DPReview statements about the D7000 metering causing overexposure in very bright high contrast scenes is misleading. What is really happening is that the highlights are sometimes being clipped prematurely by the in-camera JPEG processing. The RAW file still has the information in the highlight areas, and is easily recovered in post processing with the highlight recover slider, or custom tone curves. For Matrix Metering to work properly for JPEGs the ADL must be set to high or to Auto ADL. My guess is that DPReview was shooting in RAW+JPEG and had ADL turned OFF, which resulted in clipped highlights in the JPEGs.

Another solution:

If you don't want to use ADL for your JPEGs, than I suggest you use ViewNX2 or CaptureNX2 to create a custom Picture Control setting that incorporates your your own custom tone curve which "pulls down" the highlights to your satisfaction and avoids clipping them. Once this is done, then just download your newly created Picture Control to your D7000 and make sure you set your camera to use it. This is what I have done. I call my custom Picture Control "Optimum" and it is now my default Picture Control setting in my D7000. Keep in mind that the Picture Control are only for JPEGs in your camera, or for use for RAW conversions with ViewNX2 or CapatureNX2, and will have not affect on your RAW file.

Best regards,
Jon

Anyway to upload and install this custom picture control? I used to use a custom picture style for my Canon DSLRs.
--
TheVancouverGuy

There are a couple of flat styles for video that will work for images. One's TassinFlat, and the other's Milk. It's also suggested to use AdobeRGB with these so the saturation doesn't go overboard.

GuardianFlash said:

Anyway to upload and install this custom picture control? I used to use a custom picture style for my Canon DSLRs.
--
TheVancouverGuy

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There is absolutely no reason to use manual for that when exposure lock is easier, quicker and much more flexible.This works best for a scene brightly backlit where the light isn't changing; you can use spot metering, lock exposure and adjust EC if required.

Generally I'll meter off blue sky opposite the sun and 45 deg up or the brightest part of the scene that i want to keep detail and adjust +2.7 EC.

Other useful tones:
green grass, grey stone, weathered wood +0
dark green foliage -1
avg caucasian skin +1

Bill Wallace said:

Sorry didn't read the whole thread but I'd choose a different metering method and put your camera in manual and zero the meter out. Test shot and adjust from there....

Bill
--
Bill Wallace

http://bwallace.zenfolio.com/

"I'd rather laugh with the Sinners than cry with the Saints"

Click to expand...

sshoihet said:

There is absolutely no reason to use manual for that when exposure lock is easier, quicker and much more flexible.This works best for a scene brightly backlit where the light isn't changing; you can use spot metering, lock exposure and adjust EC if required.

Generally I'll meter off blue sky opposite the sun and 45 deg up or the brightest part of the scene that i want to keep detail and adjust +2.7 EC.

Other useful tones:
green grass, grey stone, weathered wood +0
dark green foliage -1
avg caucasian skin +1

Bill Wallace said:

Sorry didn't read the whole thread but I'd choose a different metering method and put your camera in manual and zero the meter out. Test shot and adjust from there....

Bill
--
Bill Wallace

http://bwallace.zenfolio.com/

"I'd rather laugh with the Sinners than cry with the Saints"

Click to expand...

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COMPLETELY NOT TRUE.

What if I want/need a certain shutter speed to eliminate camera movement with a long lens, and at the same time I need a certain aperture for the desired DOF?

I shoot 95% manual mode now, with AND without Auto-ISO.

sshoihet said:

...you can use spot metering, lock exposure and adjust EC if required.

Generally I'll meter off blue sky opposite the sun and 45 deg up or the brightest part of the scene that i want to keep detail and adjust +2.7 EC.

Other useful tones:
green grass, grey stone, weathered wood +0
dark green foliage -1
avg caucasian skin +1

Click to expand...

+1

I started off using Matrix Metering but then came across a post by Graystar that I found very helpful and useful.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=40235281

After reading that I began using spot metering, AE lock, and adjusting EC based on "baselines" like described above and in Graystars post. Took some time to practice / get used to but once I did I started getting better results and more important, consistently better results. I don't feel that using AE lock slows me down and I do feel that I'm more in control. It's gratifying to get shots right the first time rather than relying on trial and error of shoot, check, adjust, reshoot when Matrix doesn't get it right.

I'd highly recommend searching for the post from Ray Soares on his D7000 settings and then take a look at posts from jonikon around what settings he uses to see if you want to adopt those on top of Ray's. Based on the D7000 button layout my personal preference is to set AE-L/AF-L to AF lock only, Fn to AE lock hold, and shutter half-press for focusing.

One final note, when using AE lock and metering off skin tone don't forget you can use your own if you're in the same light as your subject. e.g. your own hand, arm, etc

GuardianFlash said:

Anyway to upload and install this custom picture control? I used to use a custom picture style for my Canon DSLRs.

Click to expand...

Yep, if you load the free ViewNX 2 app from Nikon there is an option inside the app to launch the Picture Control Utility. From there you can customize picture controls and export them to your flash card. Once you've done that you can import them from the flash card into the camera.

Remember the good old days of film when you actually had to know a thing or two about getting the correct exposure? You had to know the latitude of your film. Now we have wider dynamic range and better meters, and still somehow there's always problems of overexposure and underexposure. I don't get it.