Never say "never". I'd wait for samples and full review of camera with ISO=200
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tedolf
Forum Pro
tedolf
Forum Pro
tedolf
Forum Pro
It is hard to get past the psychological issues.
Many thanks, haven't been called that in years!
TEdolph
Yohan Pamudji
Senior Member
Love my E-P1 too. Good image quality, nice feel in hand with just enough physical controls, reasonably snappy although AF could stand to be quicker, and nice brushed metal exterior finish. Form factor is not intimidating to people and doesn't draw attention like a big DSLR does, and the overall tiny size of the m4/3 system means I always have it with me. I'll miss the E-P1 when I upgrade, but technology marches on.
Don't be too touchy about the ISO 100 thing. All people are telling you is that ISO 100 on the E-P1 is fake--it's actually the same as an ISO 200 exposure that is then brought down 1 stop to get the final exposure, so you are in real danger of losing highlights because the "original" exposure was basically overexposed. Because of that you can achieve the same thing and get the lower shutter speed you want by taking any other m4/3 camera, exposing at ISO 200 at +1 EV, then pulling it down 1 stop in post processing. Of course that's clunky and adds extra work on the processing end so it's not ideal, but other than that you don't actually lose anything by doing that compared to actually using ISO 100 on the E-P1. Hope that helps.
Don't be too touchy about the ISO 100 thing. All people are telling you is that ISO 100 on the E-P1 is fake--it's actually the same as an ISO 200 exposure that is then brought down 1 stop to get the final exposure, so you are in real danger of losing highlights because the "original" exposure was basically overexposed. Because of that you can achieve the same thing and get the lower shutter speed you want by taking any other m4/3 camera, exposing at ISO 200 at +1 EV, then pulling it down 1 stop in post processing. Of course that's clunky and adds extra work on the processing end so it's not ideal, but other than that you don't actually lose anything by doing that compared to actually using ISO 100 on the E-P1. Hope that helps.
tedolf
Forum Pro
I am afraid that you may have completely destabilized his world view.
Could someone please call a suicide prevention hotline?
TEdolph
tedolf
Forum Pro
please be advised Oly PENs do not have a "true" ISO 100 setting.
It is a fake....
a fraud....
a changeling.
We are sorry.
Carl, you need some help.
Tedolph
tedolf
Forum Pro
do you use the ISO 100 setting?
Do you have an irrational fear of small mamals?
TEdolph
mfbernstein
Veteran Member
Yes, but your reasoning is very hard to understand. It's not that ISO 200 with +1 compensation is similar to ISO 100. It's identical. As in it produces the same bytes. Run RAW samples the rawnalyze if you feel the need.
I happen to know this because there was a big todo over whether ISO 200 had more DR than ISO 100 on the 12MP Olympus cameras, and several folks, myself included, did the tests. Of course back then, we were crucified for suggesting that ISO 200 wasn't a clear improvement over ISO 100, but whatever...
So what you're saying is that you like you EXIF to say 'ISO 100' instead of 'ISO 200, +1EV'. Because the results have nothing to do with it.
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MFBernstein
'Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.' - Ed Abbey
tedolf
Forum Pro
I fear for the OP's mental stability.
What you suggest is that just like in the days of film, changing the position of the ASA dial was just like exposure compensation, and that the film emulsion didn't really change!
If the OP were to understand this, you could be responsible for the consequences!
Imagine the internal conflicts this could cause!
TEdolph
larrytusaz
Senior Member
I am with you somewhat actually. Like you I'm "late to the game" and like you I tried out a micro 4/3rds before but it didn't quite work for me at the time. I'm trying again, and so far-- so far , I'm doing better & think I'm more "ready" for it.
In my case I got the E-PL1 both times, which is a LITTLE newer. I only paid $215 for it with the original 14-42mm this second-time around. I've seen the E-P1 for sale but reports of its sloooow autofocus scared me off. Granted, the new models are faster focusers than the E-PL1, but even the E-PL1 from what I've read is faster than the E-P1. It also does squeeze out that tiny bit of extra quality from what I've read, and the built-in flash will help if I need to use "fill-in" for outdoor portraits. It doesn't have as many controls as the E-P1, but I've acclimated to its way of working pretty well. (I would really like it if I could assign ISO to the red-dot button though.)
Also, I am about to upgrade the "original" 14-42mm to the newer 14-42mm II (found one for $110), which itself will speed up autofocus (and I know I won't encounter the "lens wobble" issue, although I haven't encountered it this second-time around so far it seemed as though I did the time before, which was one of the reasons I left for awhile. I wasn't ready to deal with it just yet, even if "dealing with it" was as simple as getting a different lens.) The GF1 tempted me, but besides costing more (although it's coming down some now) the Olympus JPEG engine appeals to me, as I'm trying to not only do away with equipment-lugging hassles but also being compelled to shoot in RAW as much.
Yes, I am loving having a camera that takes photos that come close to matching my Nikon D5000 12mp d-SLR for image quality and lets me change settings like on a d-SLR yet is small enough to always be with me. For now anyway d-SLRs are still king & I will still have a good one (in fact I'm about to upgrade the D5000 to the newer D5100) but to have something in the 12mp Nikon D5000 league always with you--it's great.
If it were more than an "experiment" & I wasn't maintaining the Nikon system also, I'd be inclined to go all out & get lenses like the 17mm f/1.7 for landscapes, the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 for "compact walkaround" and the 45mm f/1.8 Olympus for portraits. (For that matter I'd have an E-P3 if I were really serious.) I did get the Nikon to m4/3rds adapter for $11 that will let me mount my old 50mm 1.8 manual-focus lens from the 80s & use it in aperture-priority mode, I'm looking forward to trying that.
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LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
{ http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive) }
In my case I got the E-PL1 both times, which is a LITTLE newer. I only paid $215 for it with the original 14-42mm this second-time around. I've seen the E-P1 for sale but reports of its sloooow autofocus scared me off. Granted, the new models are faster focusers than the E-PL1, but even the E-PL1 from what I've read is faster than the E-P1. It also does squeeze out that tiny bit of extra quality from what I've read, and the built-in flash will help if I need to use "fill-in" for outdoor portraits. It doesn't have as many controls as the E-P1, but I've acclimated to its way of working pretty well. (I would really like it if I could assign ISO to the red-dot button though.)
Also, I am about to upgrade the "original" 14-42mm to the newer 14-42mm II (found one for $110), which itself will speed up autofocus (and I know I won't encounter the "lens wobble" issue, although I haven't encountered it this second-time around so far it seemed as though I did the time before, which was one of the reasons I left for awhile. I wasn't ready to deal with it just yet, even if "dealing with it" was as simple as getting a different lens.) The GF1 tempted me, but besides costing more (although it's coming down some now) the Olympus JPEG engine appeals to me, as I'm trying to not only do away with equipment-lugging hassles but also being compelled to shoot in RAW as much.
Yes, I am loving having a camera that takes photos that come close to matching my Nikon D5000 12mp d-SLR for image quality and lets me change settings like on a d-SLR yet is small enough to always be with me. For now anyway d-SLRs are still king & I will still have a good one (in fact I'm about to upgrade the D5000 to the newer D5100) but to have something in the 12mp Nikon D5000 league always with you--it's great.
If it were more than an "experiment" & I wasn't maintaining the Nikon system also, I'd be inclined to go all out & get lenses like the 17mm f/1.7 for landscapes, the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 for "compact walkaround" and the 45mm f/1.8 Olympus for portraits. (For that matter I'd have an E-P3 if I were really serious.) I did get the Nikon to m4/3rds adapter for $11 that will let me mount my old 50mm 1.8 manual-focus lens from the 80s & use it in aperture-priority mode, I'm looking forward to trying that.
---
LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
{ http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive) }
I'm pretty sure that focus speed disparity between E-P1 and E-PL1 disappeared after the last firmware update. I know the focus speed on my E-P1 with the 14-150 or 17mm is very fast and even with the 12-60 4/3 lens is under a second.
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Don.
A Land Rover, a camera ... I'm happy!
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Don.
A Land Rover, a camera ... I'm happy!
When I got my E-P1 I expected I'd be using 200 "ISO" but find I default to 100, despite all the theory. In practice, the difference in highlight details seems tiny compared to the significant difference if file quality. 100 "ISO" is quite clean while 200 "ISO" is plain grainy! Why the heck would I want to muck around with exposure compensation when I can just set the camera to its cleanest setting and shoot? (Maybe the highlight difference is greater if you shoot JPEG but I don't.)
I'm not ignorant - when dynamic range is important, I switch to 200. That's surprisingly rare and, ironically, often a waste of time because when I need that high dynamic range the sensor really struggles anyway.
--
Don.
A Land Rover, a camera ... I'm happy!
I'm not ignorant - when dynamic range is important, I switch to 200. That's surprisingly rare and, ironically, often a waste of time because when I need that high dynamic range the sensor really struggles anyway.
--
Don.
A Land Rover, a camera ... I'm happy!
mfbernstein
Veteran Member
This is the result of the RAW converter using a different tone curve for the two shots. The ISO 200 shot is underexposed and pulled up in post (thus the highlights, but also the extra noise). With most converters, this can't be turned off.
--
MFBernstein
'Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.' - Ed Abbey
C
cgarrard
Guest
I seriously doubt it kid!
C
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http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
C
cgarrard
Guest
I love when people prove me right, over and over again.
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
C
cgarrard
Guest
Never.
I prefer to have ISO 100 reserved for lower shutter speeds. Some have suggested that is irrational. That makes me laugh out of my chair.
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
I prefer to have ISO 100 reserved for lower shutter speeds. Some have suggested that is irrational. That makes me laugh out of my chair.
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
C
cgarrard
Guest
Anyone that is as sensitive about this issue as you that has to post your point (whatever that is) over and over again, is obviously the one in need of medication.
Just sayin kid.
C
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
Just sayin kid.
C
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
C
cgarrard
Guest
I think you should try and make your point again, I'm still not getting it Al.
C
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson
C
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson