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OM-D's lack of built-in flash -- Oly actually recommends one...

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fongyiktze said:
I have to say sorry! I should have get my facts right first. I am just very adverse built-in flash photographery. I am glad my E-P2 does not comes with a built-in flash.
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Nothing to apologize for.
fongyiktze said:
I have seem many people taking photos in areas where flash photography is not permitted and then unwittingly took a picture without switching off the auto flash setting.

This happens when people tryng to take a photo of a painting with a fast lens attached to a DSLR and then firing a built in flash. After making this mistake they quickly hide the camera and looked sheepishly when the security comes walking in.
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Yup, we've probably all seen that.
fongyiktze said:
Usually I am the first suspect because I looked the part and with the camera in my hands but because I have an E-P2 and I do not have a flash they have no evidential charge against me but you can see them thinking that I must be the culprit because I have a nice cam and how could I not have a flash.
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Seems an odd thing to do. If a guard or docent bothered me, I'd tell them to check their video, because it wasn't me. I sure wouldn't let this consideration factor into a camera purchase.
fongyiktze said:
I am not against remote flash and strobe lighting. I used them and I will use them again. But I am just saying you do not actually need a flash walking around in the park, street photographery, etc. when you can balance your aperature, speed and have a steady hand. I can shoot at 1/4 of a second and still get relative sharp pic. I don't have to take diazepam as I used to take to fire at long distant targets.
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I rarely use flash, but I'm glad to have it available. I also like using a viewfinder, and having a built-in flash to trigger an FL-36R makes it possible to use flash and EVF.
fongyiktze said:
I guess that many people are still upset about not having a built-in flash!
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It's not so much upset as confounded. Olympus RC flash control is a strength to be exploited, just like IBIS or good JPEG processing. If they left IBIS out of a camera, people would be scratching their heads about that, too, even if they rarely use stabilization. I know an accessory flash comes with the the cameras lacking a built-in flash, but it's just another thing to bother with, and it's a lot easier to just slide a latch than clip it on.

For me, it's not a dealbreaker, but the lack of a built-in flash is pretty odd, and will be a missed convenience.
--
http://453c.smugmug.com/
 
I probably still would've liked to see a flash built into the OM-D as a way to trigger the flash off camera.

Having the detachable mini flash works but it will probably get lost (I think my wife lost her EPM-1 flash already).
 
453C said:
fongyiktze said:
I guess that many people are still upset about not having a built-in flash!
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It's not so much upset as confounded. Olympus RC flash control is a strength to be exploited, just like IBIS or good JPEG processing. If they left IBIS out of a camera, people would be scratching their heads about that, too, even if they rarely use stabilization. I know an accessory flash comes with the the cameras lacking a built-in flash, but it's just another thing to bother with, and it's a lot easier to just slide a latch than clip it on.
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For me: Since I only have the E-510 at the moment, I have never been using the RC system.. and I know that there are situations it would be usefull (assuming it works). So it's one of those key elements on my decision list.

It's a bit like getting faster AF and Memory card access when upgrading from E-20 to E-300 and getting the IS and next gen kit lenses with E-510 upgrade. i just happen to think I'd raher have this feature on my camera than (for example) FullHD movie-recording.

So I could most likely get by with 2nd hand E-6x0 or E-30, but at this time the idea of Pen-size camera (PM-1, E-M5 or something else) with a lot advanced imaging systems kinda weights in my scale.
 
wlee829 said:
I probably still would've liked to see a flash built into the OM-D as a way to trigger the flash off camera.

Having the detachable mini flash works but it will probably get lost (I think my wife lost her EPM-1 flash already).
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I agree. I worried about that when the E-PM1 and E-PL3 were announced.
 
Michael Meissner said:
wlee829 said:
I probably still would've liked to see a flash built into the OM-D as a way to trigger the flash off camera.

Having the detachable mini flash works but it will probably get lost (I think my wife lost her EPM-1 flash already).
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I agree. I worried about that when the E-PM1 and E-PL3 were announced.
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With the E-PM1 they give you a pouch with a velcro tab that can be attached to the neck strap. Obviously anything can be lost, but they try to make it a little more difficult.

I tend to use mine as an RC trigger more than anything else, so I usually leave it in my bag with my RC flash gun. I'd rather shoot at ISO 6400 with available light and live with the noise than deal with direct clip-in/popup as the primary source of illumination.
 
Louis_Dobson said:
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but the new FL600R seems to have dual flashes, one forward, one up.

Problem solved!
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It was solved decades ago by pros using rubber bands to attach scraps of paper to their flashes... bounce cards. Nikon speedlights do it a bit more elegantly, with built-in pull-out plastic bounce cards. Dual flash heads would be an unnecessarily complex solution.

On another note, I'll second Henry's rant about the lack of a flash on Oly's new flagship MFT camera. Putting together my first MFT system, the pl2's built-in flash was an important consideration. It's convenient for triggering remotes, plus it's the first popup I've seen that can be used in bounce mode!
--
Warm regards, Frank

Galleries at fdrphoto.smugmug.com
 
Just seems silly that Oly has developed the quite useful wireless flash system, but keeps selling cameras that by themselves don't support it. Even a tiny LED flash off to the left would be useful and wouldn't need any pop-up mechanics. Not a matter of space since they can fit an LED flash into cell phones and super compact cameras. Maybe even double as the focus assist light?

Either way, I've never bought a digital camera or phone without a built in flash, so why start now.
 
It's an intelligent omission, especially if you are trying to design a weather sealed system camera body. Having a useless dinky flash with a popup door is a great way to let moisture and water into the body.
 
it seemed the perfect camera!!!
but no flash is going to be a miss.

I am not sure why so many people do not like flashes but if you start using them wirelessly through some on camera tiny source of light (the sony nex7 is a basic GN6 flash no frills...). I have this beautiful INON s2000 that will trigger from some small light source and it goes down underwater 60mt. It is not cheap (USD400) but it allows some creative lighting wirelessly... in the snow and in the rain and of course underwater. It is also a GN20 with 100 degrees wide beam. I would rather worry about this than having to carry and worry about another optional addon flash.

Like some people said, Olympus has come up with some great flash wireless technology but are not fully marketing it...
 
I've had onboard flashes on both my E330 and E3 - like most popups, they stink. Underpowered, can't change the aim. Almost never used them.

I suppose one could find the odd highlight that a popup can deliver, but if you're serious about getting a well lit shot, you'll have a decent flash with you anyway. Popups, for the most part, deliver P&S quality shots - blown foreground, dark background.

Thanks, Oly, for not turning the OM-D into another consumer compromise.
 
Sandeep Singh Brar said:
It's an intelligent omission, especially if you are trying to design a weather sealed system camera body. Having a useless dinky flash with a popup door is a great way to let moisture and water into the body.
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it would have been more intelligent to leave it on like on the E5 for people that can use it...
 
fongyiktze said:
I really hate is the false impression that I give to locals that I am a tourist taking pictures.

I think the OM-D series is to bring Oly back to the pro days where users have the ability to shoot without a flash andfor people to not look like a tourist.
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what is wrong on being a tourist?
 
TrapperJohn said:
...if you're serious about getting a well lit shot, you'll have a decent flash with you anyway.
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If you want a decent shot, you won't have your flash mounted in the hotshoe. It will be off to the side, providing directional lighting. And a little popup flash offers the most convenient method of triggering a remote flash.

--
Warm regards, Frank

Galleries at fdrphoto.smugmug.com
 
Nudibranco said:
it would have been more intelligent to leave it on like on the E5 for people that can use it...
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I will say in the defense of this decision that the it's a little different than the PENs since you don't lose the EVF by adding the clip-in flash. You still obviously lose the ability to use other shoe mount accessories but I think the VF2 was the most important for PENs.

For people who do want the flash with them all the time, it will not be a big deal to just leave it clipped in. It will increase the size of the camera, but that is part of the tradeoff you must make.
 
Uncle Frank said:
TrapperJohn said:
...if you're serious about getting a well lit shot, you'll have a decent flash with you anyway.
Click to expand...
If you want a decent shot, you won't have your flash mounted in the hotshoe. It will be off to the side, providing directional lighting. And a little popup flash offers the most convenient method of triggering a remote flash.
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I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand, even for people who look down their noses at "consumers", whatever that's about. Olympus knows how to do a weather sealed body with a built-in flash, so that's no excuse.

Which one is a simpler, smaller, more elegant solution?

RC Flash = E-P3 + FL-36R

or

RC Flash = OM-D + add-on flash + FL-36R

I wouldn't let the lack of a built-in flash put me off the OM-D, but it's a dumb decision, just like leaving off an AF Assist Lamp. You don't have to use either one, and many people wouldn't, but there are times when both can be useful.
--
http://453c.smugmug.com/
 
453C said:
Uncle Frank said:
TrapperJohn said:
...if you're serious about getting a well lit shot, you'll have a decent flash with you anyway.
Click to expand...
If you want a decent shot, you won't have your flash mounted in the hotshoe. It will be off to the side, providing directional lighting. And a little popup flash offers the most convenient method of triggering a remote flash.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand, even for people who look down their noses at "consumers", whatever that's about. Olympus knows how to do a weather sealed body with a built-in flash, so that's no excuse.

Which one is a simpler, smaller, more elegant solution?

RC Flash = E-P3 + FL-36R

or

RC Flash = OM-D + add-on flash + FL-36R

I wouldn't let the lack of a built-in flash put me off the OM-D, but it's a dumb decision, just like leaving off an AF Assist Lamp. You don't have to use either one, and many people wouldn't, but there are times when both can be useful.
--
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if you could do the RC control with just an LED built into the body a la PhotoMED, and not need the onboard flash?

Too dim?

Too slow to pulse digital signals?
453C said:
http://453c.smugmug.com/
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TEdolph
 
Well, I know a good amount of professional users, and not one ever uses the pop-up on a professional job, even as a catch light. It is a convenience that emerged in the early days of digital where you could actually review the effect of the flash. It was a marketing gimmick. Dust reduction was considered a gimmick, now find a camera without it.

Stupid would have been to provide no flash at all. They are under powered for serious work, they make pictures look cheaply produced, they are always too close to the camera when you have a professional grade lens on there, they can't do FP high sync speed shooting, I could go on but that's enough for now.
 
tedolf said:
453C said:
Uncle Frank said:
TrapperJohn said:
...if you're serious about getting a well lit shot, you'll have a decent flash with you anyway.
Click to expand...
If you want a decent shot, you won't have your flash mounted in the hotshoe. It will be off to the side, providing directional lighting. And a little popup flash offers the most convenient method of triggering a remote flash.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand, even for people who look down their noses at "consumers", whatever that's about. Olympus knows how to do a weather sealed body with a built-in flash, so that's no excuse.

Which one is a simpler, smaller, more elegant solution?

RC Flash = E-P3 + FL-36R

or

RC Flash = OM-D + add-on flash + FL-36R

I wouldn't let the lack of a built-in flash put me off the OM-D, but it's a dumb decision, just like leaving off an AF Assist Lamp. You don't have to use either one, and many people wouldn't, but there are times when both can be useful.
--
Click to expand...
if you could do the RC control with just an LED built into the body a la PhotoMED, and not need the onboard flash?

Too dim?

Too slow to pulse digital signals?
Click to expand...
There are some very bright LEDs available that pulse pretty fast. I think they'd be bright enough for flash, AF Assist, and a video light, but I don't know if they'd be capable of the pulse frequencies required for RC.
--
http://453c.smugmug.com/
 
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