HUMP-talk ... Aka.. what's there with E-M5 .. Pure Speculation.

JoannaK · Feb 6, 2012

This could make sense. Big and accurate (e)VF would definitely be good selling argument for the camera. And rising the magnification by 50 or 60% would definitely make the optic path more demanding.

I have not followed all rumours, has there been anything of the resolution and refresh rate of the new EVF? One could expect some improvement since the VF-2 design.

Thomas_A said:
VF-2 has dioptre correction by turning the eye piece, this is not the case of the OM.

Conclusion: the VF is not an integrated VF-2. It is a new optical module, which may mean new things like 0.92 x magnification instead of 0.58 x. The hump is used for the viewfinder, but not for the VF-2!

Gazeomon · Feb 7, 2012

SLOtographer said:
texviddy said:

The HUMP is retro cosmetic. Makes it look like a 1D/D3.

JoannaK said:

It's just not for the fun or gigs

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It could be cargo space to put snacks and drinks. Trekking is hard work.

--
SLOtographer

"If we limit our vision to the real world, we will forever be fighting on the minus side of things, working only too make our photographs equal to what we see out there, but no better." -- Galen Rowell

It could be a pill box which could be converted into a cockroach feeding station.
--
Hans

JoannaK · Feb 7, 2012

I know some people want to have like OM1 .95 or 1.0 magnification at the (e)VF, while others prefer smaller view are cause (among other) it's easier to see whole view with glasses.. So:

What if this wievfinder have build in Zoom function.. say from 0.50 to 1.0??? That woudl be usefull and one less thing to complain about ..

PS: IO know, it's wisfull (and hopeless) to ever see a Camera that No-one woudl complain about something. No way it can ever happen.

Andy Crowe · Feb 7, 2012

JoannaK said:
Based on what I have read on this and oly slr forums.. I'd say that IF the viewvinder Hump does not contain an GN10-(ish) flash, there must definitely be some other reason. It's just not for the fun or gigs, there are some extra (unseen?) stuff under it. The VF-2 is not that big, especially when one removes tilt-option and enclosure.

We can already see what's there, it's the hotshot accessory port.

Unlike Panasonic's hotshoe port which is only for an EVF, Olympus' port has a lot of other useful accessories so they've included it (unlike the Gx / GHx). However because the connector must sit above the built in EVF it adds some extra height to the hotshoe, hence the hump.

Art Vandelay II · Feb 7, 2012

Anders W said:
Anders W wrote:
interested too. What makes you think it might be on its way?

Some people have said that have said one of the leaked photos appears to have a GPS module mounted on the hot shoe. I personally don't think the photo looks conclusive, but hopefully they're right.

I'm actually really shocked they haven't already made a GPS module, seems to me that would be the 2nd most useful add-on after external view finders.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eparks/

Bilgy_no1 · Feb 7, 2012

At the back, we can see that the hotshoe and accessory port sit on top of the viewfinder. This assembly requires a certain distance to work with the several accessories (external mic adapter, Bluetooth adapter, macro light, etc).

At the front, my guess is that this houses a really good stereo mic. The holes for the mics are on the left and right of the hump.

So that's it: just technical, although I like the idea of the rabbit...

JoannaK said:
Since we are still waiting the announcement I'd like to spend some time writing. And speculating.

Based on what I have read on this and oly slr forums.. I'd say that IF the viewvinder Hump does not contain an GN10-(ish) flash, there must definitely be some other reason. It's just not for the fun or gigs, there are some extra (unseen?) stuff under it. The VF-2 is not that big, especially when one removes tilt-option and enclosure.

And on that though.. I'd like to give two alternatives. No ideas how badly I'm mistaken, but I'm willing to take a risk here.

Firstly .. the Hump contains hidden (and protected from elements) Hybrd viewfinder.. I think they can't have full Slrlike prism/mirror-OVF at that size, but they may have Rangefinder-like see-trough (perhaps with zoom for 14 to 45 primes) viewfinder with superimposed control info (bit like Fuji)

Alternatively.. What if they have added minimal (similar to those Pico-branded) video Projector? In theory, this projector could even use the same active display element as the EVF if the light output and resolution fit's on both purposes... I think there have been some consumer Video cameras with build in projector?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bilgy_no1

larsbc · Feb 7, 2012

Mal_In_Oz said:
There have been some comments about the viewfinder showing the effect of IBIS while framing prior to taking the shot.

Are you saying the add-on EVFs for the PENs couldn't do this??

AFAIK realt-time viewing of the effectiveness of IBIS is something that has been available for a long time, now. I mean, even my Minolta A1 circa 2003 could do that.

larsbc

larsbc · Feb 7, 2012

JoannaK said:
Since we are still waiting the announcement I'd like to spend some time writing. And speculating.

Based on what I have read on this and oly slr forums.. I'd say that IF the viewvinder Hump does not contain an GN10-(ish) flash, there must definitely be some other reason. It's just not for the fun or gigs, there are some extra (unseen?) stuff under it. The VF-2 is not that big, especially when one removes tilt-option and enclosure.

Since we're speculating, then my guess is it's just for style. After all, when the G series of m43 cameras was introduced, everyone was saying that the hump was merely a cosmetic choice by Panasonic. So why not the same with Olympus? Actually, perhaps more so with Olympus, since they're purposely trying to invoke the OM look.

larsbc

herebefore · Feb 7, 2012

larsbc said:
Mal_In_Oz said:

There have been some comments about the viewfinder showing the effect of IBIS while framing prior to taking the shot.

Click to expand...

Are you saying the add-on EVFs for the PENs couldn't do this??

AFAIK realt-time viewing of the effectiveness of IBIS is something that has been available for a long time, now. I mean, even my Minolta A1 circa 2003 could do that.

larsbc

There was a function mentioned in one of the older camera manuals about pressing and holding the IS button while using live view, to see the effect of the IS.. (I think it was on the 510, but I could be wrong) I never tried it.

Other than that one place, I've never noticed it again, nor did I look for it.

--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Connecticut

Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does

In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.
Oscar Wilde

herebefore · Feb 7, 2012

Thomas_A said:
VF-2 has dioptre correction by turning the eye piece, this is not the case of the OM.

Conclusion: the VF is not an integrated VF-2. It is a new optical module, which may mean new things like 0.92 x magnification instead of 0.58 x. The hump is used for the viewfinder, but not for the VF-2!

Same actual screen as the VF2, but different optics used with it.
--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Connecticut

Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does

In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.
Oscar Wilde

herebefore · Feb 7, 2012

Bilgy_no1 said:
At the back, we can see that the hotshoe and accessory port sit on top of the viewfinder. This assembly requires a certain distance to work with the several accessories (external mic adapter, Bluetooth adapter, macro light, etc).

At the front, my guess is that this houses a really good stereo mic. The holes for the mics are on the left and right of the hump.

So that's it: just technical, although I like the idea of the rabbit...

You mean like... "Watch me pull a rabbit out of this hump"?.. Bullwinkle Moose might be happy with this camera to shot stills and video of Rocket J. Squirrel flying around ... And.. I have NEVER seen a good portrait of Boris or Natascha.
--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Connecticut

Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does

In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.
Oscar Wilde

Anders W · Feb 7, 2012

Art Vandelay II said:
I'm actually really shocked they haven't already made a GPS module, seems to me that would be the 2nd most useful add-on after external view finders.

Yes, I agree that it seems like a very natural thing to do. Next to having the GPS built-in, having it in the hot shoe (if it's small as it should be), connected via the accessory port, seems quite acceptable to me. Other brands (e.g., Nikon) have had GPS modules for years I think, but as far as I understand you have to connect them by means of a cable. While that might be acceptable when you really need GPS data, it wouldn't be acceptable to me as a solution to be used on a regular basis, with the GPS on the camera at all times except those where you need the hot shoe for other purposes.

Anders W · Feb 7, 2012

larsbc said:
Mal_In_Oz said:

There have been some comments about the viewfinder showing the effect of IBIS while framing prior to taking the shot.

Click to expand...

Are you saying the add-on EVFs for the PENs couldn't do this??

Lars! AFAIK, this has nothing to do with the EVF but with whether or not IBIS can be set to operate prior to the exposure. I am hardly an expert on the PENs but to my knowledge, none of them has this option. According to the recently rumored specs, the OM-D can do it and also use IBIS for video.

Anders W · Feb 7, 2012

JoannaK said:
Anders W said:

You are likely to find distortion significant enough to affect the framing in pretty much any MFT lens, whether made by Pany or Oly, with a focal length (or focal length component if a zoom) of 20 mm or lower.

Click to expand...

Ah.. This is an issue I have not heard much about. And I don' yet have any µ4/3 system to test on my own. I knew that some micro lenses are designed 'less strictly' than real 4/3 counterparts to archive weight/size savings, but did not know it was so widespreaded and visible.

Yes, it is used whenever it is useful. And it is certainly visible if not corrected. But since it is corrected whenever it needs to be, it is not a problem in practice. On the contrary, there will be less visible distortion with MFT than with other systems. A standard zoom on non-MFT cameras will typically show 2-3 percent barrel distortion at the short end (which is certainly visible in certain types of shots) because it is difficult to correct it fully by optical means without serious trade-offs. To get rid of it, you'd have to correct it manually in PP. MFT allows distortion levels of up to about 5 percent before correction, but since it is always auto-corrected, the visible distortion is close to none.

JoannaK said:
So.. does the compatibility keep up at these details too? That is, can I expect this distorition (cromatic, barrel etc) to be kept check with SW no matter who's lenses are used on O/P bodies?

Distortion is always auto-corrected on any MFT body with any MFT lens having electrical contacts (not the purely manual ones like Cosina Voigtländer and Samyang/Rokinon). Lateral chromatic aberration is auto-corrected only when you are using a Panasonic lens on a Panasonic body.

larsbc · Feb 7, 2012

Anders W said:
larsbc said:

Mal_In_Oz said:

There have been some comments about the viewfinder showing the effect of IBIS while framing prior to taking the shot.

Click to expand...

Are you saying the add-on EVFs for the PENs couldn't do this??

Click to expand...

Lars! AFAIK, this has nothing to do with the EVF but with whether or not IBIS can be set to operate prior to the exposure. I am hardly an expert on the PENs but to my knowledge, none of them has this option. According to the recently rumored specs, the OM-D can do it and also use IBIS for video.

Way back in the day, my Minolta A1 had the option to turn off IBIS prior to shooting. In other words, you could use it during framing, or not. I assumed the same was true of subsequent IBIS digicams.

Being able to use IBIS while shooting video will be a nice improvement.

If the darned thing just had a built-in flash I'd say there's a strong likelihood that I'd buy one. But since it doesn't, I'll need a lot more convincing. I want the IBIS for use with my non-OIS lenses but I just need that flash, too.

larsbc

Anders W · Feb 7, 2012

larsbc said:
Being able to use IBIS while shooting video will be a nice improvement.

Yup. Not very important to me but nice to have the option anyway.

larsbc said:
If the darned thing just had a built-in flash I'd say there's a strong likelihood that I'd buy one. But since it doesn't, I'll need a lot more convincing. I want the IBIS for use with my non-OIS lenses but I just need that flash, too.

But do you really consider that such a strong impediment, especially since a clip-on flash (which you can angle upwards if you want if I've understood the pics correctly and which has the advantage of being further off axis) is included? Note also that the E-M5 (and several other Olys) support wireless TTL flash while your GH2 doesn't.

Like you, I want IBIS (and the wireless flash capability although that's less important) and I didn't upgrade to a GH2 yet, so I am certainly tempted by the E-M5 if it delivers on its promises. So far I haven't even considered any Oly body due to the lack of a built-in EVF and a better sensor than the old 12 MP, but the E-M5 is a game changer for me in this regard.

I must admit that the E-M5 came as quite a surprise to me. I was hoping to get the specs of the GH3 about this time, so that I would know whether I should wait for it or get a GH2 in the close-out sales. But instead I got the specs of the "Pen Pro", which, although rumored, I thought would still be in the making for quite a while longer.

larsbc · Feb 7, 2012

Anders W wrote:
[snip]

Anders W said:
Anders W said:

If the darned thing just had a built-in flash I'd say there's a strong likelihood that I'd buy one. But since it doesn't, I'll need a lot more convincing. I want the IBIS for use with my non-OIS lenses but I just need that flash, too.

Click to expand...

But do you really consider that such a strong impediment, especially since a clip-on flash (which you can angle upwards if you want if I've understood the pics correctly and which has the advantage of being further off axis) is included?

Tough call. The thing is, my GH2 already covers a large percentage of my needs, with my Nikon system covering the rest. So I'm reluctant to switch bodies to get IBIS, and lose (convenient and compact) built-in flash. Granted, the GH2's built-in flash is limited in that there is no manual control (unbelievable, but there it is) and can't wirelessly control over flash units.

So the OM-D will come with the clip-on flash? I wasn't sure if that was part of the basic kit or if it were an extra cost "bundle."

[snip]

Anders W said:
Like you, I want IBIS (and the wireless flash capability although that's less important) and I didn't upgrade to a GH2 yet, so I am certainly tempted by the E-M5 if it delivers on its promises. So far I haven't even considered any Oly body due to the lack of a built-in EVF and a better sensor than the old 12 MP, but the E-M5 is a game changer for me in this regard.

I'll definitely be watching the reviews, etc.

larsbc

Anders W · Feb 7, 2012

larsbc said:
Tough call. The thing is, my GH2 already covers a large percentage of my needs, with my Nikon system covering the rest. So I'm reluctant to switch bodies to get IBIS, and lose (convenient and compact) built-in flash. Granted, the GH2's built-in flash is limited in that there is no manual control (unbelievable, but there it is) and can't wirelessly control over flash units.

Yes, I can understand that your choice is slightly different given that you've already got the GH2. But when it comes to the flash specifically, the fact that I have to carry it separately doesn't bother me much. It's small and presumably light so I guess there will always be some little pocket in my bag where it'll fit (although these pockets do tend to become crowded after a while

). And yes: I find the lack of a manual flash setting as well as the lack of wireless TTL flash support on Pany cameras just as surprising as you do. Would seem like a very easy thing to fix for a company like Panasonic. So why hasn't it been done yet?

larsbc said:
So the OM-D will come with the clip-on flash? I wasn't sure if that was part of the basic kit or if it were an extra cost "bundle."

Yes, the flash is included according to all spec lists I have seen.

JoannaK · Feb 7, 2012

Anders W said:
Art Vandelay II said:

I'm actually really shocked they haven't already made a GPS module, seems to me that would be the 2nd most useful add-on after external view finders.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree that it seems like a very natural thing to do. Next to having the GPS built-in, having it in the hot shoe (if it's small as it should be), connected via the accessory port, seems quite acceptable to me. Other brands (e.g., Nikon) have had GPS modules for years I think, but as far as I understand you have to connect them by means of a cable. While that might be acceptable when you really need GPS data, it wouldn't be acceptable to me as a solution to be used on a regular basis, with the GPS on the camera at all times except those where you need the hot shoe for other purposes.

Like Fllash/wireless conrtoller or Macro lights ... too many things for just one port. If this camera had Popup flash, this would not look so bad.

IMho, the best place to add GPS and wlan module woudl be at the Grip/battery pack. I have no idea what communication system there is with those add-on parts, though.

JoannaK · Feb 7, 2012

herebefore said:
Thomas_A said:

VF-2 has dioptre correction by turning the eye piece, this is not the case of the OM.

Conclusion: the VF is not an integrated VF-2. It is a new optical module, which may mean new things like 0.92 x magnification instead of 0.58 x. The hump is used for the viewfinder, but not for the VF-2!

Click to expand...

Same actual screen as the VF2, but different optics used with it.

Apparently not much difference at all. Unless something sneaky will be announced.

HUMP-talk ... Aka.. what's there with E-M5 .. Pure Speculation.

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