D800

I'm going to get convinced that today's war of megapixels is more about what gear have we to take photos...this forum is sure about cameras, photography, people, feelings, advices and many more...

If someone posts a new gear here, the many of us scream "wow" but if someone posts some pictures only a few here will take a look and even less will post a few advices...and always the same people. Sometimes it seems someone is a better "photographer" because has a more expensive camera. I know, people use to compensate their absent talent and spirit for a good picture with a more expensive camera. But this does not work this way I hope.

That's why I'd ask some of you out there, post more pictures and less new gears...
Many thanks for reading my post.
Tibor

Sony's naming conventions as related to the first numeric digit have always seemed to conform to the Minolta conventions, so my guess is that they won't deviate from this. They added the "8" between the 7 & 9, apparently drawing a line that puts the "7" at the top of APS-C and the "8" at the low end of FF.

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Rich

http://philosurfer.zenfolio.com/

are OVF too. Because they were sleeping.

And Sony was sleeping too, because the omitted tethering with A77. My old KM A2 has it.

PJR_68 said:

Well that would make my day! General consensus is that's not the case.

It sure would be nice to have an "official" indication from sony if the plan a A950 (ovf) or not.

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Everything that has been said by Sony reps regarding future cameras indicates it will not be making any more OVF cameras, unfortunately. Having used the A77 for several months now, including a recent trip to Antarctica, while the EVF has certain nice features, it is not in my view an adequate replacement for a good/great OVF such as the A900. The dark view and limited dynamic range of the A77 EVF, and the impossibility of tracking rapidly moving subjects while shooting in hi-speed continuous mode, made it a frustrating camera to use at times. When I switched to the A900 (I was shooting both with different lenses mounted), it was a joy to use the A900 because of the far superior viewfinder. I know this is heresy to many here, but that's my experience.

The reality is that manufacturers don't provide "official" information in advance about products in development, for the most part (other than an occasional "in development" announcement). And particularly not when there won't be such a product (A950).

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Mark Van Bergh
http://www.markvanbergh.com

PJR_68 said:

That's a whoooooole lot a camera for 3K. You gotta wonder what sony's answer will be price wise if/when they release a full frame.

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Not a very impressive camera other than the Sony 36MP sensor. Same old recycled technology. I am sure the new Sony A99 or whatever it will be called will blow it away! By the way, what happened to the 'too many MP' sensor argument, guess it does not apply to Nikon, only Sony.
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• Happiness is: Sony SLT-A77 / Rokinon 8mm / Sigma 10-20, 18-250, 50-500mm - Karl

tesch said:

I think Sony needs to stop trying to low ball the comp and charge what the camera's worth. They will get much more respect for the A99 if it costs 6k

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In the FF market I think Sony HAS been charging what the camera's worth. Remember that this value is set by comparison to the rest of the marketplace. Considering the feature sets Sony includes and the overall IQ (fantastic in its sweet zone but having a narrower zone than others), one could make a case that the A900 was overpriced when compared to, say, the 5D.II. But we're always talking apples & oranges, since these companies have different points of view. Nikon undeniably pushes forward the edges of the more traditional photography while Sony (understandably) is pushing a new take on it; neither has the [photographic genre features] (traditional vs. modernist) that the other has, and each will attract its appropriate following.

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Rich

http://philosurfer.zenfolio.com/

lifeispixels said:

Nice strategy from Sony side to sell this sensor to Nikon. Remember how some people have been bitching about 24MP sensors being too dense and that Nikon & Canon know better about cameras, etc.

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Write-ups of the D800 "report" it's a Nikon "developed" (as opposed to manufactured) sensor. Assuming that is right and that Sony is making it for Nikon, we have no idea what the arrangement might be for Sony to be able to use the same or a modified version of the sensor in one of its own cameras.

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Mark Van Bergh
http://www.markvanbergh.com

I agree! You also need a good lens for D800, something like 24-70 f/2.8, which costs another $1800. So, the total purchase price for D800 would be in the $4000 neighborhood. Sony is on the right path with its 16-50 f/2.8. Only if they can fix all the inconveniences of A77 in time, they can survive the competition.

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take pictures to save your precious presents…

http://www.kooroshvaziri.com/gallery

moimoi said:

This may very well be a good bye to my recent a900 + CZ 24 MP. At about 3000 K, it looks like the new D800 is rather a big winner.

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Why? What about the A900 and CZ 24/2 do you find unacceptable? For what purposes will the D800 better satisfy your needs than the A900? If it relates to video, fine. But if it relates to still image quality, are you really a member of the teeny, tiny minority for whom 36MP would make a practical difference compared to 24MP?

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Mark Van Bergh
http://www.markvanbergh.com

You're silly. This 36mpx sensor has the same pixel pitch as the highly praised 16mpx APS-C sensor. Also I don't expect the Nikon D800 to have the same low light performance as the lower resolution Nikon D4. Finally, even when Sony and Nikon use the same CMOS image sensor, Nikon generally wins the JPG IQ and low light performance match because Nikon uses different sensor toppings (color filters,OLPF), different AD conversion (including 14bit vs. Sony's 12bit), and different image processing systems and algorithms.

The problem for Sony is that even if both both Sony and Nikon cameras used the same sensors and had the same low-light performance, Sony would automatically lose because their equivalent SLT cameras would immediately steal 30% of the light going to the sensor in order to power the full-time autofocus system.

I used to be very much against EVFs (even without the SLT 30% light loss). Now I'm more resigned to them after trying out the A77/A65 and would be willing to buy a Sony SLT camera if it otherwise had the right specs and price.

I have the Sony A850 now (up from A700) but really hope for a smaller full frame SLT/DSLR camera with the same size as the old Maxxum 7 and a full frame NEX in the style of the NEX7 for those occasions when I want to carry light and/or appear inconspicuous. The size/weight of the A850 is becoming a drag.

-Hope

lifeispixels said:

Nice strategy from Sony side to sell this sensor to Nikon. Remember how some people have been bitching about 24MP sensors being too dense and that Nikon & Canon know better about cameras, etc.

Not only Sony makes some big $$$ selling the sensors to Nikon, this breaks the barrier and shuts the mouths of those fanboys. Now Nikon is leading Sony in higher mega pixel full frame. Nobody would complain anymore about 24MP being too high in A850, A900, A77, A65. We can point finger to Nikon D800. And when Sony come out with their own 36 MP full frame machine next year, no troll would have an excuse to ***** about this LOL.

High MP sensor has their use. Landscape and Fashion crowd will love. Now what's left is Sony should close the gap by offering a really nice semi-pro body that excels in high ISO. I hope that could be the A57 with 16MP nex-5N sensor.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/hopeiseternal/

LOL You just used up my entire months data allotment for my iPAd. Kidding
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Just for fun!

Jim

When Sony puts out a large megapixel sensor it's all doom and gloom and how bad the photos look. Now Nikon puts out the largest yet and even though it's Sony made it's now the best thing since sliced bread. Even DPR's preview summed up "On balance, increased pixel count generally counts as a good thing in everyday photography." It sure does when it says Nikon on the front. (Yes I cherry picked the quote but it's pretty much indicative of how Nikon gets treated over Sony everywhere.)
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phiri said:

sye46 said:

Am I missing something here? What's so innovative from the D800? 36 mp without AA? That's it? It doesn't even have a tiltable LCD screen. The specs look like it was from three years ago.

Looks like a nice camera but I must've missed the hype train somewhere

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Don't get caught so much in the innovative train. What matters is the final product. If the final product is good enough, that will have many people buying than a very innovative tool that leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to the final product. Nikon is known for its high prices so people are surprised that it has launched such a camera with so many offerings at that such a reasonable price. Let us not forget that the former high resolution camera from Nikon (D3X) was selling for 8000 USD.
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Right (regarding innovation). Folks looking at a camera in this range, or at least most of them, are going to be more concerned about how it performs and how well it serves their needs (real or perceived). The A77 has some innovative features but many are crippled limiting their usefulness to the photographer. 12 fps shooting but only at f:3.5 or maximum aperture? Not good when you want more depth of field. Panoramic shooting? Not good when it is "auto everything" and you can't set a desired aperture/shutter speed combination or ISO, and it cuts off image height with no indication in the viewfinder what is being cut off. EVF? Not so good when it prevents you from effectively shooting fast moving subjects in hi-speed continuous (8 fps) except for the first frame or two before you have no idea where the subject is in the viewfinder. 24/36 MP? How useful if the AF system misses focus too often? Face detection? How useful if it detects a face but there's no AF sensor where the face is? You get the idea.

Innovation is good, but innovation just for the sake of innovating or providing marketing hype won't get you very far if the product fails to deliver or gets in the way of the photographer being able to shoot what he or she wants to, or makes it harder for them to do so.

My point: Get the photography basics right and minimize the limitations placed on the photographer when using the camera (no camera is perfect and there will always be some kind of limitations, but the fewer the better).

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Mark Van Bergh
http://www.markvanbergh.com

moimoi said:

I think when technology will be up to what one may expect, all the other companies will choose evf. The fact that all new full frame cameras are still ovf from Canon and Nikon means that ovf still has a great importance in photography.

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I didn't suggest otherwise.

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Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

I'm very happy that Nikon built powerful and affordable alternative to current landscape cameras - Canon MK II and Sony A900 and Nikon D3. Equipped with Nikkor sharp primes D800 body should deliver remarkable detail.

I'm skipping this generation of FF cameras, because I'm satisfied by IQ from A850 + Maxxum primes. I hope my camera will last couple more years.

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Person is taking photos, not camera. When photograph is bad, it's because photographer doesn't know how to choose settings optimal to "own preferences". Then blames camera for bad IQ.
This is same as blaming car about arriving to wrong destination.

http://stan-pustylnik.smugmug.com

Dave Oddie said:

As an aside, since I got my A77 and have been dealing with the files from it I have to say 36mp files will be a pain in the neck to process whether they come from a D800 or A99. Mind you if you can contemplate ditching the A900/CZ so readily and shelling out for a complete D800 outfit I am sure you can afford to lease the required time on a Cray super computer to process the output

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Maybe a 20 year old Cray. I have a 6 month old Dell with a Core I7 3.4 GHZ Quad 4 processor, 8 GIG RAM and a dedicated 1 GIG Video card. It handles my 24mp A65 files with ease, 4600 DPI scanned 35mm negatives (about 30 MP) and scanned 220 film (about 45mp) without breaking a sweat. The computer cost just over $1100.

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Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

Peter McNeill said:

When Sony puts out a large megapixel sensor it's all doom and gloom and how bad the photos look. Now Nikon puts out the largest yet and even though it's Sony made it's now the best thing since sliced bread. Even DPR's preview summed up "On balance, increased pixel count generally counts as a good thing in everyday photography." It sure does when it says Nikon on the front. (Yes I cherry picked the quote but it's pretty much indicative of how Nikon gets treated over Sony everywhere.)
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I am glad I was not the only one that picked up on that.

By the way, the rest of the D800 specs are not very impressive for a $3000 camera.
I will stick with my Sony A77!
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• Happiness is: Sony SLT-A77 / Rokinon 8mm / Sigma 10-20, 18-250, 50-500mm - Karl

Mark VB said:

lifeispixels said:

Nice strategy from Sony side to sell this sensor to Nikon. Remember how some people have been bitching about 24MP sensors being too dense and that Nikon & Canon know better about cameras, etc.

Click to expand...

Write-ups of the D800 "report" it's a Nikon "developed" (as opposed to manufactured) sensor. Assuming that is right and that Sony is making it for Nikon, we have no idea what the arrangement might be for Sony to be able to use the same or a modified version of the sensor in one of its own cameras.

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Does anyone recall the wording Nikon used in the past for the D300 and D3X? Did they claim they were Nikon "developed"? As we know both were based on a Sony sensor and Nikon changed some things for their needs. Perhaps that is the development they are talking about?

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Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/

tnagy said:

That's why I'd ask some of you out there, post more pictures and less new gears...

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This is a gear forum. There are other forums that deal with photographs.

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Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

Karl Scharf said:

PJR_68 said:

That's a whoooooole lot a camera for 3K. You gotta wonder what sony's answer will be price wise if/when they release a full frame.

Click to expand...

Not a very impressive camera other than the Sony 36MP sensor. Same old recycled technology. I am sure the new Sony A99 or whatever it will be called will blow it away! By the way, what happened to the 'too many MP' sensor argument, guess it does not apply to Nikon, only Sony.
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• Happiness is: Sony SLT-A77 / Rokinon 8mm / Sigma 10-20, 18-250, 50-500mm - Karl

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I guess the question to you is why is it generating a lot of buzz with such old technology? Does it occur to you that probably some or even many are willing to live that old tech? Why is not everybody dropping their canons, nikons, pentaxes for the a77/65/55 cameras? Let us wait to see how Sony with the new cameras perform on the market and then we may gauge what people out there are looking for? For those who followed closely the Blu-ray/HDDVD format war can remember how adoption for highdef was painfully slow and many people said could not see the advantages of highdef when their upscaled DVDs were so good on their TVs. I could see the difference clearly but some did not see that. I understand the frustration on some Sony users who cannot understand why a camera that is not revolutionary generates a lot of interest when Sony offers better. People vote with their wallets so let us see what will happen. For Sony to compete, they have to price their offering at very low price. Will that be economical based on how Sony has performed economically the last few years? If the price of the a77 is a good gauge, then the next FF from Sony will not be less than 2000 USD if it ever comes out. I dont believe so for now.
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