K-01 and some non-dSLR owners

Damn...........another sensible thread, have all the whingers gone now??

junyo said:

Give a caveman a pickup truck to replace his ox and he'd probably ***** about gas and oil changes. Because since he's never had a pickup truck he doesn't understand the advantages of it. That doesn't mean the pickup needs to be more like an ox, that means the caveman needs to be educated about horsepower and internal combustion engines and what their advantages are over a leather bag full of future hamburger are.

Saying that an LCD is great because that's what P&S users are used to is a nasty bit of design laziness that caters to people who can't be bothered to learn how to use an advanced tool.

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Your argument only works on the premise that OVF is superior to LCD which in itself is an opinion not a proven fact.

Given that LCD is the newer solution your argument can bat both ways maybe the OVF is the caveman's tool of choice

--
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...is this: Marc Newson in his 5min video interview says that he was very happy with his cooperation with Pentax, both sides apparently understood the task at hand very well, and Pentax fully embraced the new design. When asked: "how do you define the K-01" he answered: "(...)semi professional, (...)a serious tool".

Now just about everyone in this forum who really likes the K-01 definitely does not see it as a "semi-pro, serious tool", but finds another market slot for it. Well, if you are happy with what K-01 offers, good for you. But I am yet to hear one enthusiastic opinion from a professional (or semi-pro) photographer - a user Pentax targets with this product.

BTW, all consumers should be encouraged to be critical - they have right to do so. This is how free market and competition works, and this is how progress happenes. Is a camera A or camera B for you or for me is irrelevant.

robbo d wrote:
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robbo d said:

I cant figure out why people in this forum think that every new Pentax or product has to be for them and criticize it for why it doesnt have this or that !!!!

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nt

chiane wrote:
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chiane said:

Can you imagine there are photographers that don't use heavy telephoto lenses....and that don't shoot birds from 100 yards away?

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awaldram said:

junyo said:

Give a caveman a pickup truck to replace his ox and he'd probably ***** about gas and oil changes. Because since he's never had a pickup truck he doesn't understand the advantages of it. That doesn't mean the pickup needs to be more like an ox, that means the caveman needs to be educated about horsepower and internal combustion engines and what their advantages are over a leather bag full of future hamburger are.

Saying that an LCD is great because that's what P&S users are used to is a nasty bit of design laziness that caters to people who can't be bothered to learn how to use an advanced tool.

Click to expand...

Your argument only works on the premise that OVF is superior to LCD which in itself is an opinion not a proven fact.

Given that LCD is the newer solution your argument can bat both ways maybe the OVF is the caveman's tool of choice

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It pretty much is a proven fact that in bright ambient, or when trying to be unobtrusive an eye level viewfinder is better. And it pretty much is a fact that when the most stability is needed not holding the camera at arm's length and adding an extra point of contact is better.

So no opinion, just simple physics and common sense. An LCD only camera, no matter how useable, will always be a less versatile tool than one that includes some form of eve level VF.

justin23 said:

They did agree, my photos were generally better, but they also said I took a lot longer to take the photos and they couldn't be bothered, just point and click with the best IQ possible is all they wanted.

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I think the reason why your photos generally look better has to do with the fact that you take a lot longer to take them...
"Point and click" is rarely a recipe for masterpieces, IMO.
Marco

The Pentamirror is a disgrace ... A downright abomination, and when it has goen which it definitelt will we will be amazed that anyone could mourn its passing.

Now on my DS and my soon to be had K5 there is a pentaprism that is accepable and preferable to todays EVF .... but I bet that EVF will be in many ways better than Pentaprisms. then they may all go.

Personally i will always prefer a viewfinder ... but then i am old and full of sleep. the young find them strange .....

Most cameras will not have attached EVF s in the future .... but some will for the next 20 years or so. We will be an increasing minority as I am in other things .. i see the world through a Pentaprism and its full of Miles, Yards, Feet, Pints , Acres and ewonderful old things but my son who loves photgoraphy I think will see it through OLED and it will be measured in metre, litres and hectares .

The photos will be just as good ... but different .... just as SLR were compared to the thoughtful compositions of Double Lens Reflex and true Full frame that dwarf the Hasselblads of this world

I think that this camera and its offspring will be Pentaxes most successful to date. I just hope for me that one of them has an EVF attached ... just for me !
--
Tom Bell
Dartmoor
Devon

http://flickr.com/photos/tombell1

wayfarers said:

Now just about everyone in this forum who really likes the K-01 definitely does not see it as a "semi-pro, serious tool", but finds another market slot for it. Well, if you are happy with what K-01 offers, good for you. But I am yet to hear one enthusiastic opinion from a professional (or semi-pro) photographer - a user Pentax targets with this product.

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I haven't noted down the names but several have said that the K-01 is very attractive for macro work. There's also a fair amount of enthusiasm for lack of mirror-slap and need for AF fine-tuning.

I don't know if Ulrich would describe himself as semi-pro but he's certainly a serious photographer http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=40518283

--
---

Gerry


First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne

wayfarers said:

...When Marc Newson was asked "how do you define the K-01" answered: "(...)semi professional, (...)a serious tool".

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Yes, I felt he slightly let himself down at that point. The K-01 is as much a semi-pro tool as the K-r.

Still, I wouldn't discount 'serious photographers' using LCD screens. I don't care for them myself because of the need to refocus my eyes closer than is comfortable - I suspect that this is the main (if unspoken) reason why peoples preferences are mainly a generational thing.

In the end an LCD screen is just a different medium for pre-viewing the image. Rollei users got by fine with something quite similar.
--
Mike
http://flickr.com/rc-soar

junyo said:

justin23 said:

Yeah but saying its no good for zoom lenses is perfectly fine, but dismissing a product because it doesn't meet someones needs but meets many other needs is ok as well. How many of the iPhone crowd would this camera attract?
I suspect a lot more than any current dSLR owners.

Pentax just are not very good at marketing their "funky design/colour" products to the respective audience.

Wheatfield said:

justin23 said:

J

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junyo said:

Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.

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Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.

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Give a caveman a pickup truck to replace his ox and he'd probably ***** about gas and oil changes. Because since he's never had a pickup truck he doesn't understand the advantages of it. That doesn't mean the pickup needs to be more like an ox, that means the caveman needs to be educated about horsepower and internal combustion engines and what their advantages are over a leather bag full of future hamburger are.

Saying that an LCD is great because that's what P&S users are used to is a nasty bit of design laziness that caters to people who can't be bothered to learn how to use an advanced tool.

Click to expand...

This is a short-sighted view that fails to appreciate the real-world camera marketplace. Like it or not, there are a bazillion people who have learned to take photographs using an LCD screen and are more comfortable doing so, even as they move up to larger and more sophisticated cameras. If Pentax wants to sell cameras to this group of potential buyers, it must offer them cameras that suit their wants, not those of more knowledgeable traditionalists, such as yourself. Some of those buyers will catch the photography bug and climb further up the camera ladder. And I have no doubt that Pentax will provide excellent higher end cameras for those who want them.

There has never been a camera produced by any manufacturer that could be all things to all people. That is just a fact of life that we must accept.

Rob

P.S. I expect more than a few DSLR users will find that the K-01 makes a great backup camera, especially for shooting video.

moving_comfort said:

I think the K-01 isn't a terrible offering lke the 'Q' was, but I think Ricoh will learn a lesson here about (E/O)VF's that stings for a while. The majority of folks who are serious enough to drop $500+ on a camera body will at least be aware of what a VF is good for, and probably rate the bodies that have one higher.

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OVF could be real for K-01

Very valid point, Justin.

There is a perfect illustration of the changes in using even DSLRs in an ad for the German magazine "GEO" (more or less an equivalent of 'National Geographics' - so usually presenting highest quality photos).

The text reads: "I am GEO . Not just look, but observe." - So, I guess, the ad reader should identify with a GEO photographer.
Here is the ad (sorry, very low IQ, not taken with a Pentax ;-) ):





I haven't identified the DSLR in the guy's hands (probably a small Nikon), but it definitely has a VF. - Now notice how he is holding it...
A "GEO / Nat. Geo. photog".
We VF users are a minority.
--
Jan

My photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosember/
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/

But all of the so called target audience that loves LCD would the first thing ask: "How do you zoom it?"

See this is what really bugs me about many of thepolemics here, it is true that most iphone users would love to use LCD and would not give vf even a nod, but then on the same thing Pentaxis selling 40mm prime to them... Seriously? Viewfinder is too much for "them" but 40mm prime is just what they need?

Am I the only one who see a big problem with this line of thought? With PS cameras that are snapping 35x zoom on them Pentax wants to interest the so called iphone owners with a prime?

This is really messed up if nobody see anything wrong with this image. Yes, I get it it is not for me, has no viewinder, but who is the recipient then ?
The few "great as a backup" people? How many of them are there?

If a sony would make k-01 people here would laugh how ugly it is and how sony completelly missed it. Prime and no viewfinder, hahahaha.

aplucini said:

The users Justin is talking about won't be using a heavy telephoto lens. All they want is the 40mm pancake lens that comes with the camera. It will probably never occur to them to remove it and use a different lens. That would be such a foriegn concept to them.

Wheatfield said:

Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.

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--
Allan in Colorado, USA

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Hello,

For the price, and without taking the merit of the camera, it would be good to have a swivel LCD.

That said, i think is a good camera and the buyers will be happy with it.

Hadding75 said:

Hello,

For the price, and without taking the merit of the camera, it would be good to have a swivel LCD.

That said, i think is a good camera and the buyers will be happy with it.

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I just do not get why DSLR people are so enamoured with optical viewfinders and swivel screens.

The task is usually to get the camera out, frame, shoot and move on. It is hard to ask the world to stop while I swivel my screen. Screens have a wide enough viewing angle that swiveling is of little utility.
--
Variance is Evil!

If Pentax does not get K-01 in a lot of real stores, in 2 years Ricoh will sell Pentax division to Uncle Ben's. But maybe Q will save the day, who knows?

interesting, pretty much my wife's view of why the K01 has been made, I showed pics of it to her and said it's daft - she said it's for people who use the screen on the back to compose and have never used a viewfinder, there's a whole generation like that.

she's used my k5 but thinks it's too big and bulky, next time I'm in the camera shop I'll see what she thinks of the K01, I think she would like it, but not in yellow (but there's no way she's using my lenses without a strap round her neck !!!)

--
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You don't say 'I of been to work' do you ???

It's 'I would've ...' or ' I would have ...'

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When the search feature isn't working here, go to Google, and type the following:
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I certainly feel for your friends. For every photographer like you, there must be a thousand who want all the photographic craft and method they can cram into the next two and a half seconds. If the last viewfinder you looked through was on a film P&S, the DSLR probably seems about as technologically advanced as a manual choke in your car.

Stu

lownine said:

I certainly feel for your friends. For every photographer like you, there must be a thousand who want all the photographic craft and method they can cram into the next two and a half seconds. If the last viewfinder you looked through was on a film P&S, the DSLR probably seems about as technologically advanced as a manual choke in your car.

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Stu is quite correct, you have to see big printouts before you'll understand the vast difference!
--
tord (at) mindless (dot) com

A toy-like camera like the K-01 might be fun for the non-serious camera users, but a total failure for the serious Pentaxians. Not that far from the Mickey Mouse cameras from my youth, just given a Braun look, to be ever so slightly more serious!

Remember that the NEX range sold more than anything else in Japan last year, and the NEX is eons away from the K-01, no matter how good a camera it is!
--
tord (at) mindless (dot) com