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K-01 and some non-dSLR owners

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justin23

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Just a real world example to add fuel to the K-01 and lack of viewfinder debate.

I was out with some friends last saturday, when I offered to take a photo of them next to a piece of art in the gallery we were in. Anyway they offered as well, I set just press the shutter half to focus and full to shoot, as they'd never used the k-5 let alone a dSLR.

Well what do you know, they tried to use it at arms length and look at the screen :-)
I said you have to look through the viewfinder and they did and took the photo.

The conversation after that was quite humourous, to the extent that they both thought having to use a viewfinder was stupid and they'd rather look at a screen. I said that I could turn that feature on (live view) but I preferred the optical viewfinder.

We never did agree that the optical viewfinder was the better method, I mentioned the new K-01 camera and how the argument was the other way and they thought it sounded pretty good. They did agree, my photos were generally better, but they also said I took a lot longer to take the photos and they couldn't be bothered, just point and click with the best IQ possible is all they wanted.

Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.

--
Justin
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/justinwatson
 
justin23 said:
J
Click to expand...
justin23 said:
Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.
Click to expand...
Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.
 
All of which has absolutely zip to do with actual photographers wanting an OVF. If 'what you want' is based on the inexperienced preferences of a noob; that sounds like a personal issue.
justin23 said:
Just a real world example to add fuel to the K-01 and lack of viewfinder debate.

I was out with some friends last saturday, when I offered to take a photo of them next to a piece of art in the gallery we were in. Anyway they offered as well, I set just press the shutter half to focus and full to shoot, as they'd never used the k-5 let alone a dSLR.

Well what do you know, they tried to use it at arms length and look at the screen :-
Click to expand...
 
...that this is not what Pentax considers to be predicted user profile of K-01. When Marc Newson was asked "how do you define the K-01" answered: "(...)semi professional, (...)a serious tool".

"Just point and click with the best IQ possible" + zoom lens + reasonably low price + reasonable size is not really where the K-01 could be recommended.
justin23 said:
Just a real world example to add fuel to the K-01 and lack of viewfinder debate.

I was out with some friends last saturday, when I offered to take a photo of them next to a piece of art in the gallery we were in. Anyway they offered as well, I set just press the shutter half to focus and full to shoot, as they'd never used the k-5 let alone a dSLR.

Well what do you know, they tried to use it at arms length and look at the screen :-)
I said you have to look through the viewfinder and they did and took the photo.

The conversation after that was quite humourous, to the extent that they both thought having to use a viewfinder was stupid and they'd rather look at a screen. I said that I could turn that feature on (live view) but I preferred the optical viewfinder.

We never did agree that the optical viewfinder was the better method, I mentioned the new K-01 camera and how the argument was the other way and they thought it sounded pretty good. They did agree, my photos were generally better, but they also said I took a lot longer to take the photos and they couldn't be bothered, just point and click with the best IQ possible is all they wanted.

Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.

--
Justin
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/justinwatson
Click to expand...
 
Sounds like they wouldn't even know, or care, to change a lens on a camera. Maybe not a K-01 target user. Funny story though.
 
I don't think people like that care anything about K-mount compatibility and changing lens. So why not design a new mount.
 
My point is, many people don't like using an OVF/EVF and wouldn't even have a clue about using them.

Whether thats there problem or not is irrelevant, because Pentax built a camera for them.
Pentax_Prime said:
All of which has absolutely zip to do with actual photographers wanting an OVF. If 'what you want' is based on the inexperienced preferences of a noob; that sounds like a personal issue.
justin23 said:
Just a real world example to add fuel to the K-01 and lack of viewfinder debate.

I was out with some friends last saturday, when I offered to take a photo of them next to a piece of art in the gallery we were in. Anyway they offered as well, I set just press the shutter half to focus and full to shoot, as they'd never used the k-5 let alone a dSLR.

Well what do you know, they tried to use it at arms length and look at the screen :-
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Justin
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/justinwatson
 
Yeah but saying its no good for zoom lenses is perfectly fine, but dismissing a product because it doesn't meet someones needs but meets many other needs is ok as well. How many of the iPhone crowd would this camera attract?
I suspect a lot more than any current dSLR owners.

Pentax just are not very good at marketing their "funky design/colour" products to the respective audience.
Wheatfield said:
justin23 said:
J
Click to expand...
Wheatfield said:
Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.
Click to expand...
Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.
Click to expand...
--
Justin
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/justinwatson
 
I'm curious. Did the size of your camera come up in your conversation with them?
 
justin23 said:
My point is, many people don't like using an OVF/EVF and wouldn't even have a clue about using them.
Click to expand...
Yup, they buy compact cameras and don't shoot professionally ... this has what to do with actual photographers?
justin23 said:
Whether thats there problem or not is irrelevant, because Pentax built a camera for them.
Pentax_Prime said:
All of which has absolutely zip to do with actual photographers wanting an OVF. If 'what you want' is based on the inexperienced preferences of a noob; that sounds like a personal issue.
justin23 said:
Just a real world example to add fuel to the K-01 and lack of viewfinder debate.

I was out with some friends last saturday, when I offered to take a photo of them next to a piece of art in the gallery we were in. Anyway they offered as well, I set just press the shutter half to focus and full to shoot, as they'd never used the k-5 let alone a dSLR.

Well what do you know, they tried to use it at arms length and look at the screen :-
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Justin
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/justinwatson
Click to expand...
--
My Website
http://www.andrewallenphoto.com

My Pentax Street Gallery - Arranged By Lens Used
http://photobucket.com/andy_allen
 
Hey Justin, I get your story and where your coming from....... I totally agree.

In fact Newson and Pentax seem to be at odds over who its for, perhaps he didnt read the script. Pentax are actually talking about new customers.

Because of the VF issue, its prob not going to be liked by the traditionalists. Even though I came through the 35mm film days, my first digi was a Fuji s7000, that had a crap EVF and I always used the screen, so i am accepting of both.

I think the new DSLR's will keep people like Pentax-prime happy and the K-01 is not for him anyway. Pentax know what they are doing and people like your friends, my kids who use smart phones and other modern generation persons will get it. Smart work by Pentax, new generations of followers while the new DSLR range will keep the old customers happy.

I cant figure out why people in this forum think that every new Pentax or product has to be for them and criticize it for why it doesnt have this or that !!!!
 
I have found exactly the same thing when people use my camera 70% want the LV on.
--
Regards Dean - Capturing Creation
N.B. All my Images are Protected by Copyright
 
justin23 said:
Yeah but saying its no good for zoom lenses is perfectly fine, but dismissing a product because it doesn't meet someones needs but meets many other needs is ok as well. How many of the iPhone crowd would this camera attract?
I suspect a lot more than any current dSLR owners.

Pentax just are not very good at marketing their "funky design/colour" products to the respective audience.
Wheatfield said:
justin23 said:
J
Click to expand...
justin23 said:
Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.
Click to expand...
Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Give a caveman a pickup truck to replace his ox and he'd probably ***** about gas and oil changes. Because since he's never had a pickup truck he doesn't understand the advantages of it. That doesn't mean the pickup needs to be more like an ox, that means the caveman needs to be educated about horsepower and internal combustion engines and what their advantages are over a leather bag full of future hamburger are.

Saying that an LCD is great because that's what P&S users are used to is a nasty bit of design laziness that caters to people who can't be bothered to learn how to use an advanced tool.
 
Yep, that's the target audience the K-01 is intended for. DSLR users should stop whining about it. No one is expecting them to give up their DSLRs for a K-01. There will be upgrades to the K-r and K-5 announced some time during this coming year.
justin23 said:
Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.
Click to expand...
--
Allan in Colorado, USA
 
You are missing the point.

Many people are happy doing things the way they want to whether iots regarded as the best method or not.

Your analogy doesn't quite work here. Photographers know an OVF/EVF helps take better pictures. To non photographers they reckon they can get pretty good shots off an LCD and don't want to use an viewfinder of any kind.

The point is an EVF would have added cost, a cost much of the target audience wouldn't pay for or use. I have no doubts nthat a k-mount mirrorless with EVF will come out.

The camera also has some pretty damn good video specs, another feature photographers have been known to complain about, but the typical iphone user would want good video. They make lenses for iPhones and other phones, so it stands to reason some of these people may step up to better photgraphy with a K-01.

The point from my original post is non photographers use an LCD screen. Whether we photographers agree or not is irrelevant because the camera was made for people who like using LCD screens.
junyo said:
justin23 said:
Yeah but saying its no good for zoom lenses is perfectly fine, but dismissing a product because it doesn't meet someones needs but meets many other needs is ok as well. How many of the iPhone crowd would this camera attract?
I suspect a lot more than any current dSLR owners.

Pentax just are not very good at marketing their "funky design/colour" products to the respective audience.
Wheatfield said:
justin23 said:
J
Click to expand...
junyo said:
Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.
Click to expand...
Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Give a caveman a pickup truck to replace his ox and he'd probably ***** about gas and oil changes. Because since he's never had a pickup truck he doesn't understand the advantages of it. That doesn't mean the pickup needs to be more like an ox, that means the caveman needs to be educated about horsepower and internal combustion engines and what their advantages are over a leather bag full of future hamburger are.

Saying that an LCD is great because that's what P&S users are used to is a nasty bit of design laziness that caters to people who can't be bothered to learn how to use an advanced tool.
Click to expand...
--
Justin
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/justinwatson
 
The users Justin is talking about won't be using a heavy telephoto lens. All they want is the 40mm pancake lens that comes with the camera. It will probably never occur to them to remove it and use a different lens. That would be such a foriegn concept to them.
Wheatfield said:
Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.
Click to expand...
--
Allan in Colorado, USA
 
People using my DSLR are a bit taken aback that they need to look through that little hole. This is a great enthusiast camera for the iPhone generation or someone who wants high performance in a small package.
--
Variance is Evil!
 
Wheatfield said:
justin23 said:
J
Click to expand...
Wheatfield said:
Sounds like K-01 users to me, they are not alone either.
Click to expand...
Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.
Click to expand...
Can you imagine there are photographers that don't use heavy telephoto lenses....and that don't shoot birds from 100 yards away?
 
aplucini said:
The users Justin is talking about won't be using a heavy telephoto lens. All they want is the 40mm pancake lens that comes with the camera. It will probably never occur to them to remove it and use a different lens. That would be such a foriegn concept to them.
Wheatfield said:
Sounds like people who have never tried to use a heavy telephoto lens on a camera too. It's a good thing that Pentax has a decent shake reduction system, because a lot of people are going to be putting it through some pretty extreme uses with this camera.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
.

Don't know if it's obvious, but he's trying as hard as he can to use the VF. He's one guy who will grow up knowing what it's for :)



The advantages of a VF become apparent even after a couple of days of shooting a DSLR, and especially when shooting larger lenses. The fact that a lot of people don't know about them isn't really indicitive of a trend as much as it's just a measure of DSLR to non-SLR shooters .

In the past, the non-DSLR shooter just shot a P&S film camera that had a little VF, because no other technology was available. Now, that P&S film shooter is shooting a VF-less digital P&S or phone, which has a different interface. It's not a 'trend away from VF', it's just an accurate count of the way it's always really been. It would be a mistake to misinterpret this as a trend and design accordingly.

I think the K-01 isn't a terrible offering lke the 'Q' was, but I think Ricoh will learn a lesson here about (E/O)VF's that stings for a while. The majority of folks who are serious enough to drop $500+ on a camera body will at least be aware of what a VF is good for, and probably rate the bodies that have one higher.

--
Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/
 
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