After 3 months with a77 a quick, sad review.

I bought the a77 as a hybrid for video stills. I find it fails in both.

Now before the fanbois go "oooooOOOOHHH" let me explain the issues.

VIDEO:

Its video is no where near optimal. Its alright albiet it crops in lots and it is HARD to get it to work for professional work. I think Sony intentionally crippled it because even though the AF would work within a limited aperature range (up to f5.6) you cannot set this and you cannot set the shutter speed which doesn't affect AF at all.

The limit to iso 1600 and having a fastest aperature of f3.5 means that all those tantalizing lens like a 50mm f1.4 are not useful to you, unless you want to build a full follow focus rig and carry around a big shoulder mount system that will cost you an additional 5,000$ at least.. Video is just a failure. The GH2 or Nex chews this camera up and spit it out, having none of these limitations.

I dont understand why Sony could not open up wider aperatures then 3.5 with AF, or why I have to fiddle with exposure lock pointing at different darkness region to try and lock my shutter speed, or why I cant select within 1.4-5.6 and still maintain AF. Or why I cannot access iso 3200 in movie mode. All these things make this camera a fair weather princess that is finicky to use when shooting video and not at all useful for anything other then working in bright conditions.

Video = a total miserable fail

Conclusion: a Nex5n with a 50mm stabalized 1.8 will seriously trump this camera, giving somewhere in the range of 3 or 4 stops of extra light gathering, less noise and full manual settings, with a small form factor and no need for big dslr rig. Total cost of nex with lens = 900$ for a video MACHINE.

Stills:

The A77 fairs far better in this region and holds it own quite well with some nifty features like iso 50 (allowing an extra stop in brigh conditions) and a snappy autofocus system, however it fails in a couple of areas that make what could be a sweet cam.. relatively useless.

JPEG DOMINANCE: Almost all of the useful special functions of the camera are only available in jpeg. This would be alright if there was a option to shoot in raw but when you engage a special function like hand held twilight the camera would temporarily switch to jpeg and then back to raw. Instead it just tells you that you cant shoot jpegs in raw mode and forces the user to jump back and forth through the menu system. The process to switch to hand held twilight from raw and then back to continue normal shooting is so painful i will not mention it here. Suffice it to say this camera doesn't offer fluid movement between a pro approach (raw) and a consumer approach (jpeg). Its a shame because some of those functions would actually be nice to include in raw.

FLASH ARCHITECTURE: This is where the camera really falls down. When you want to go off camera with your flash. If you think like i did you can just buy some flashes and then use the built in wireless lighting system, think again!! you will run into the following problems right off the bat:

1) the popup flash contributes significantly to the exposure, ruining careful lighting.

2) You are CONSTRAINED to TTL, even though any pro will typically want manual settings with mutltiple strobes you can only let sony tech choose your lighting. What good is exposure comp except to tell you that you may or may not have less light of an unknown and inconsistent amount. This is AWEFUL.

3)finally, your pop-up flash will overheat within ten exposures and it takes a LONG time to cool down.

So what do you do? You use radio triggers!! Now once you find some that fit sonys proprietary flash you will be disspaointed to discover that triggers like the Pixel Kings which allow TTL flash but more importantly will you allow to control each flash power and zoom individually from the camera body on a nikon, will not ever do that on a sony. Why? Like those hacks canon sony uses its flash to control the other flashes, not the camera. Get used to pulling down your strobes, adjusting the light on each one individually, going back to your oringinal shooting spot, trying again, walking abck to your strobe, repeat ad nauseum. The Nikon systems potential KILLS this and kicks it all over the place. A nikon shooter can adjust each flashes power from his shooting location and even the zoom on the flashes.. This is 1000% more professional and convenient in a studio or on location set-up.

not to mention the IQ of the d7000 is comparable to the a77 and its also weather sealed with two card slots and the d7000 becomes a viable choice.

Conclusion: In stills the a77 is a nice and relaible camera crippled by unintelligent menu control and a archaic flash system. Cost of d7000 with kit lens 1500$

So... you can get a d7000 for stills and a nex5n for video. The two will together give you a much better solution for stills or video. The total cost is about the same as the a77 with the 16-50

The a77 still has a place. Its a decent stand alone camera with a nice screen and good EVF. It works well with a on camera 58 flash though it overheats the flash (where my friends nikon does not). The 12 fps is almost useles because of the buffer.. and though I like the camera, the seriously crippled video and flash system are what really makes me wonder if Sony can solve these things for the a99. What makes the situation so frustrating is that these appear to be design flaws not technical limitations.

I doubt it will happen. Even if they solve the video issue, it looks like the cumbersome, ineffectual flash system is with us for life.

....

EDIT

My Mistake, you can also control all your speed lights from a canon. It is only Sony that has this horrid crippling.

Your most recent contribution nicely sums up all the criticism you have shared with us in the recent 4 months or so:
http://www.dpreview.com/members/7858456904/forums/threads?page=2

You started with asking if the a77 is a clever lie, launched numerous threads on the crippled flash, the "JPEG not RAW", etc. etc. and actually were aware that the Pana GH2 is a better video cam than the a77 from the start.

I remember at one or two points in time I attempted to engage in a constructive exchange with you which from my POV fell on deaf ears. I will try one more time:

Video:

Go MF in video with the a77, and you get your 1.4 DOF. To get 1.4 on Nex, you have to go manual focus as well, as there is no native AF E-Mount lens with that max aperture. You knew that, right? or not?

You want AF with a 1.4 lens DOF? What kind of movie would result from that? What artistic impression do you want to create? I can see a lot of artistic applications for slow and carefully applied MF at 1.4 (you will need tons of ND filtering to get there to combine it with bearable shutter speeds for you audience...if you actually care about your audience). Fast PDAF in video with a DOF of mm's? Curious about your movie making intentions! Care to share?

You complain that you need to buy an expensive MF rig? Go look at what kind of money Canon 5DMkII operators throw at their cam to get serious video.

Flash:

You so far are the only one here stating that the a77 on board flash overheats. What is more frequently reported is that the a77 flash exposure is inconsistent, and that is considered an issue with dialing negative EV's as only workaround so far.

F58 overheating? has been reported here in the past. I had it too until I added the external battery pack. Problem gone. Check the 'bay' for Minolta 5600 external battery pack third party solutions available - or the original Sony one at > 200 $.
I got the latter. Works super. A solution to an issue by Sony! Got that?

Summary:

From your style of putting your thoughts into written form, and the numerous repetitions it seems you have your mind made up about the a77 for quite a while. Thanks for making that clear - again. In that context, an excellent blog entry.

Now if you begin to consider offered solutions and complementary thoughts to your observations, that would make engaging with you a lot more - fun, if not downright more helpful for everyone.

bye for now.

--
Ralf
http://RalfRalph.smugmug.com/

Dustinash said:

Suffice it to say this camera doesn't offer fluid movement between a pro approach (raw) and a consumer approach (jpeg).

Click to expand...

Which is kind of normal if you ask me. Sony tries to make its camera appealing to both the general public and high-end users. In most cases the owner will belong to one of the 2 categories, who won't use the features made for the other. Either you want someting that gives you great images out of the box with effects that usually required extensive PP (JPG and the advanced functions) or you want full control to do what YOU want, and thus shoot RAW. And I really doubt you'd be switching back and forth between both modes during the same shooting. If you did, you'd probably not need to shoot RAW in the first place, just stay with JPG.

Dustinash said:

FLASH ARCHITECTURE: This is where the camera really falls down. When you want to go off camera with your flash. If you think like i did you can just buy some flashes and then use the built in wireless lighting system, think again!! you will run into the following problems right off the bat:

1) the popup flash contributes significantly to the exposure, ruining careful lighting.

Click to expand...

I've been finding that annoying, but only when my subject is at

Dustinash said:

2) You are CONSTRAINED to TTL, even though any pro will typically want manual settings with mutltiple strobes you can only let sony tech choose your lighting.

Click to expand...

Absolutely not. You can perfectly choose fully manual flash in wireless mode. Actually I remember already telling that to you in another of your posts.

Dustinash said:

3)finally, your pop-up flash will overheat within ten exposures and it takes a LONG time to cool down.

Click to expand...

It has happened to me too.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kilrah/
http://www.youtube.com/user/kilrahvp

Ralf Bliesener said:

Flash:
You so far are the only one here stating that the a77 on board flash overheats.

Click to expand...

No, it really does. I've had it too and read a couple of other reports.

He just exaggerates it. I needed probably 20-30 wireless shots within a minute, not 10 like he says.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kilrah/
http://www.youtube.com/user/kilrahvp

Kilrah said:

Ralf Bliesener said:

Flash:
You so far are the only one here stating that the a77 on board flash overheats.

Click to expand...

No, it really does. I've had it too and read a couple of other reports. I needed probably 20-30 wireless shots within a minute, not 10 like he says.

Click to expand...

I stand corrected. 30 wireless shots in a minute that is a shot every 2 seconds which may explain why there are more reports on the inconsistent a77 flash exposure than reports on this issue.

Kilrah said:

He just exaggerates it.

Click to expand...

Indeed. His POV, though.
--
Ralf
http://RalfRalph.smugmug.com/

Yes I agree on the RAW JPEG issue that keeps getting mentioned. Sony cameras have always operated like this and it has never been an issue. When you think about it, a lot of these jpeg specific functions can only be applied to jpeg because of the in camera processing that these functions need to be applied.

It wouldnt hurt for the camera to provide the option to switch automatically from raw to jpeg just for those who want this feature, just a switch in the menu system. There might be some technical limitation to this however.

I appreciate you guys taking me up on these points. I seem to just forget then the frustration overwhlems me.

Regarding filming at f1.4.. jeez what I am trying to say is being limited to f3.5@iso1600 is a HUGE leap to f1.8@iso3200 which the nex can do. To be clear I am not looking at this for the DOF (which would be sweet though) I am looking to get access to these settings for the ability to film in low light. I work in the entertainment industry.. nightclubs... the a77 is absolutely useless in that atmosphere without additional lighting which ruins ambience. The nex has 3-4 stops on it. Thats massive.

The whole point about not wanting a rig applies to canon or having to go MF on the a77. Thats my point. I dont want a rig. Thats why I bought an DSLT so I didnt have to focus during run and gun... the a77 let me down. hard.. The nex does it better. a lot better.

As for the wireless flash system being able to be set in manual. This maybe true. Forgive me if I forgot but perhaps it is because the user interface on the 58 flash is so counter intuitive I cant remember the settings without having to constanly open the manual. It has some sort of cryptic c number when you are trying to set things that does not designate what the function does, there is like c01-c08 and you have to guess what changing its value will do or keep the manual as reference. Its gross, coarse and non-sensical to not explain what setting you are setting in english rather then in an arbitrary code, right on the flash screen.

This is MINOR to me because the whole light driven remote flash thing is way to limited anyway. Radio triggers should solve the problem but they only half solve it because you cannot set your flashes remotely in-body on sony like you can on a canon or nikon and that is the rub.

Thus my conclusion about this camera that the video is useless in low light and completely cumbersome to set in decent light since we have no control over shutter speed even (for god knows what reason) and no access to any aperature other then in 3.5 (even though the af can supposedly function from wide open to 5.6) except in manual mode which necessitates a lot of additional rigging. Photographically speaking the flash system is critically crippled for professional SPEED LIGHT work. Even the 58 design does not work well for optically triggering it because you cannot rotate the flash body away from the head to try and get better access to the light. While the design works good on camera for bouncing, it is terrible for optical triggering because your diffuser will invariably block the sensor.

If you dont need to shoot professional video (which you can on a nex) and you use wired strobes, not speed light you can get around these things. In that case the a77 is a really nice camera, equivalent to a quality nikon or canon.

A few little improvments could make the a77 a lot sweeter. Open up settings to allow limited selection of aperature and shutterspeed with AF. Program in a in-body flash menu. Update the firmware on the flash to actually be in english so I can understand what i am setting (though I realize this has nothing to do with the a77, to me it illustrates a point about sony ergonomics). Little things that would just carry this camera up above nikon and canon and its own little brother the nex.

Claim: Video = a total miserable fail

Well - Sony never claimed the A77 to be a professional video camera , so expectations might have been set a bit high at this point. The specs are available to anyone before buying this camera, so the ground work done before buying might have been a bit unprofessional. Just a thought... ;-)

I am trying to decide whether a nex would be a good compliment to my a77, sounds like it would work well. They are selling a35s here in switzerland for 444 plus kit lens and this could be another option as it is nice and small too, but seems like it will have similar video limitations to the a77.

I can never understand why someone would buy what is a serious still camera with an add on video attached, for the primary purpose of using the video.

If you want a video buy a serious video camera that is built specifically for the purpose.

In my view adding a video to serious SLR cameras, is nothing more than a gimmick perhaps to get a few more sales, rather than as a serious tool for serious production work.

I own a serious video camera. It's a Sony 2100E and I have had it for some years, and it's still a very capable camera. It will see me out in my life time.

I don't use video on my A55 and when I get the A77, I wont use the video on that either.
--
ozgoldman

Dustinash said:

I work in the entertainment industry.. nightclubs... the a77 is absolutely useless in that atmosphere without additional lighting which ruins ambience. The nex has 3-4 stops on it. Thats massive.

Click to expand...

What I don't understand is why you want a large sensor camera for this kind of thing. It's really not the most appropriate solution. There are rather cheap camcorders with small video-oriented 2MP sensors that do better in low light and have much better AF.

THE reasons to use a large sensor camera for video are artistic effects through limited DOF, and to use "special" lenses, because it's what most camcorders can't do well with their small sensors. For this, you will use MF anyway.

Apart from that, they only have drawbacks. Much worse ergonomics, step-driven apertures, lenses you can't zoom smoothly, limited controls,...

Again, Sony added AF in video to appeal to the general public who has no clue but just wants to film the kids at the park.

No pro would want to use AF with an F1.4 lens anyway. A thin "slit" of DOF moving around erratically is the last thing you want in any video shot, less-than-perfect MF looks much more acceptable.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kilrah/
http://www.youtube.com/user/kilrahvp

Its just practical to be able to switch to video when doing a photo set (like of children for example) than have to carry around two devices, its actually very practical. But for this purpose, there is no need for super dooper functions in video. I would however like to see the a77 video a little more flexible in autofocus, but I accept its limitations and work within the boundaries which is OK for my basic use.

Thank you ! I would rather NOt have Video and have the Camera with more options for Still Images, although i cannot imagine what else i would need.

ozgoldman said:

I can never understand why someone would buy what is a serious still camera with an add on video attached, for the primary purpose of using the video.

If you want a video buy a serious video camera that is built specifically for the purpose.

In my view adding a video to serious SLR cameras, is nothing more than a gimmick perhaps to get a few more sales, rather than as a serious tool for serious production work.

I own a serious video camera. It's a Sony 2100E and I have had it for some years, and it's still a very capable camera. It will see me out in my life time.

I don't use video on my A55 and when I get the A77, I wont use the video on that either.
--
ozgoldman

Click to expand...

Dustinash said:

Conclusion: a Nex5n with a 50mm stabalized 1.8 will seriously trump this camera, giving somewhere in the range of 3 or 4 stops of extra light gathering, less noise

Click to expand...

You're counting double there. 2 stops as per apertures, plus half a stop less noise at equal settings (no mirror).

I'm sure you're not counting the ISO range as it's not really changing the light gathering abilities. Because what it does do is change the gain and add noise.

Either way, with the 5N and no SLT adapter you lose the faster AF.

Dustinash said:

So... you can get a d7000 for stills and a nex5n for video. The two will together give you a much better solution for stills or video. The total cost is about the same as the a77 with the 16-50

Click to expand...

Try to shoot that D7000 and 5N without lenses. Talk about apples and melons.

"Even the 58 design does not work well for optically triggering it because you cannot rotate the flash body away from the head to try and get better access to the light. While the design works good on camera for bouncing, it is terrible for optical triggering because your diffuser will invariably block the sensor."

That's false. In this regard, I actually find it superior to other flash heads. If you rotate the body of the flash by swiveling the stand around, you can then position your flash head to be PERFECTLY in the center of your light modifier. Additionally, the sensor is facing to the side of the light modifier to better pick up the the infrared signal.

I do agree that the support for accessories (like radio triggers) sucks. If you want HSS, then the only option is pixel king. Going by Joe McNally, TTL radio control seems to be very hit or miss on the other systems. And he is using the pocket wizards. So, I don't think that I'm missing out on that technology yet.

Dustinash said:

Its video is no where near optimal.

Click to expand...

When you have paid your salary, the crew and others, then you are using an A77 for professionl video? Without any rig, no separate sound recording, or other equipment? Lol!

Dustinash said:

Stills:

JPEG DOMINANCE: Almost all of the useful special functions of the camera are only available in jpeg.

Click to expand...

RAW isn't an image format. It is just a data format and a container for the data from the sensor. The jpg effect settings takes a lot of in-camera file processing.

Dustinash said:

FLASH ARCHITECTURE: ...

Click to expand...

Buy some high end Sony flashes, and you will get a reliable and pretty flexible system. Low end junk is for amateurs, and your standard is professional! ;-)

Dustinash said:

1) the popup flash contributes significantly to the exposure, ruining careful lighting.

Click to expand...

Why use the pop up flash? Hardly professional! Just get a high end Sony flash as controller!

Dustinash said:

So what do you do? You use radio triggers!! ... Now once you find some that fit sonys proprietary flash ...

Click to expand...

The FA-HS1AM adapter is relaible when using standard ISO flash mount equipment.

Also, why use small camera flashes with no pilot light for professional work? Why not use studio flashes and battery packs that can be remote controlled?

Dustinash said:

not to mention the IQ of the d7000 is comparable to the a77 and its also weather sealed with two card slots and the d7000 becomes a viable choice.

Click to expand...

If the A77 doesn't fill your needs, just jump the ship! If you are a professional this amount of money shouldnæt be anything to worry about!

Dustinash said:

The 12 fps is almost useles because of the buffer

Click to expand...

Depends a LOT on your shooting style and the speed of your memory card. I have never yet filled the buffer, still I have been shooting action.

I have used Sony cameras for years, earning my living from photography, using multiple flashes and studio flashes & battery packs, and have never had a problem with limitiations of the flash system itself. The system is robust and does what it is expected to do. But our working style might be different.

I am always amazed when someone buys a digital slr and expects it to be a top notch video recorder. I may be in the minority but I think the a77 video is excellent because i never have used it. If i wanted to do any serious video I would buy a unit dedicated to video. I shoot pictures so I bought a DSLR.

I would have bought the a77 even if it had no video capability. I have never even tried it out. That might change when LR4 upgrade comes out though.