Join a camera club

wolfmarx

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It seems not a day goes by without discussions in this forum of cheats, sandbaggers etc. It seems to me that nothing can be effectively done about the problems of this site. This is the internet after all and by definition there can be no effective control of the participants and the inputs they/we make.

So instead of taking this site too seriously I suggest we use it as a place to have some fun. Submit images in challenges, admire (or not) other people's images, vote and then see what happens. If there is cheating point it out but laugh at the idiots that cheat, because they are the ones that probably cheat at solitaire as well.

If you really want to improve your photography and learn from your peers join your local camera club. There your photos will be judged by people who know what they are talking about and will give you constuctive criticism without having an axe to grind. That is how you can improve your skills.
 
It seems not a day goes by without discussions in this forum of cheats, sandbaggers etc. It seems to me that nothing can be effectively done about the problems of this site. This is the internet after all and by definition there can be no effective control of the participants and the inputs they/we make.
Of course there can . . . . DPR are just making no effort to do anything.
So instead of taking this site too seriously I suggest we use it as a place to have some fun. Submit images in challenges, admire (or not) other people's images, vote and then see what happens. If there is cheating point it out but laugh at the idiots that cheat, because they are the ones that probably cheat at solitaire as well.

If you really want to improve your photography and learn from your peers join your local camera club. There your photos will be judged by people who know what they are talking about and will give you constuctive criticism without having an axe to grind. That is how you can improve your skills.
--
Take a look at my album . . . http://www.F1Album.com
 
So instead of taking this site too seriously I suggest we use it as a place to have some fun. Submit images in challenges, admire (or not) other people's images, vote and then see what happens. If there is cheating point it out but laugh at the idiots that cheat, because they are the ones that probably cheat at solitaire as well.

If you really want to improve your photography and learn from your peers join your local camera club. There your photos will be judged by people who know what they are talking about and will give you constuctive criticism without having an axe to grind. That is how you can improve your skills.
Good advice. I do have plans to join a camera club when the weather gets warmer (and when I decide which one I want to join). I was also looking into photography classes but it's not like in my 35mm days when I could take local adult school classes in my town inexpensively. I don't like online or video courses. I think a camera club is the way to go for me. I've participated in Meetup.com groups before and enjoyed them (not for photography, for another hobby). That was many years ago though and unfortunately they seem to have become rather commerical -- lots of groups seem to be run now by professionals looking for business. :(

The main thing about this site that is the reason I'm here -- so many challenges to choose from, on a huge variety of subjects. I haven't seen another site that offers this many. And it's kinda like an addiction or potato chips... I just can't seem to stop entering them... ;)

Lee

--

"Above all, we are coming to understand that the arts incarnate the creativity of a free people. When the creative impulse cannot flourish, when it cannot freely select its methods and objects, when it is deprived of spontaneity, then society severs the root of art."
— John F. Kennedy
 
I agree with that…. and one other plus to this is that the time commitment is completely up to you. The convenience makes this site [or the internet in general] work pretty well for me.
--
Barb
 
...cheat at solitaire, too. LMAO !!! Probably true! :)
--

A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life".

(...from the generation that still uses capital letters and punctuation...)
 
It seems not a day goes by without discussions in this forum of cheats, sandbaggers etc. It seems to me that nothing can be effectively done about the problems of this site. This is the internet after all and by definition there can be no effective control of the participants and the inputs they/we make.
Most of us here are trying to get some effective counter-cheating tools from DPR, and once their MO bars them from entering ever more challenges on account of their previous "qualifications", they might either change their ways, or leave.
So instead of taking this site too seriously I suggest we use it as a place to have some fun. Submit images in challenges, admire (or not) other people's images, vote and then see what happens. If there is cheating point it out but laugh at the idiots that cheat, because they are the ones that probably cheat at solitaire as well.
Having cheaters around is not a laughing matter. They already know they're dishonest, but simply don't give a sheesh. They also know we think of them as idiots, and care about it the same. But our concern as hosts is about honest participants having fun and a chance to learn, compare and advance their skills. Removing cheaters and other misfits (yes, there are more ;) ) awards the honest with more accurate data and does good to the learning ones.

You might say, this is only fun photography, cheaters are not relevant... but cheaters show that there is Something to be gained for Nothing, and this attitude needs to be globally eradicated, regardless what activity, by all effective means. Every day the dishonest take away some tiny crumb of your work and mine... and it is not enough to say "that's bad", sigh, and go on.
If you really want to improve your photography and learn from your peers join your local camera club. There your photos will be judged by people who know what they are talking about and will give you constuctive criticism without having an axe to grind. That is how you can improve your skills.
To my sorrow, all the clubs I ever knew were pretty much similar, and I say that for photo, archery, ham radio, and diving clubs. These all had an internal hierarchy that was not readily visible at the moment of joining.

Long story short, if you're not taking photos the way the President and several vanity-ridden brown-noses around him think that you should, there is not much learning to have. IMHO, most clubs are run by enthusiasts who think theirs is the best way, and their knowlege is usually also a ceiling there. I have been a joiner when I was younger, but left very early when I discovered there is no real creative freedom, and too many among my questions were met with blank stares. I used to be very mechanically minded and tended to do things with my cameras that other people found interesting but mainly they'd comment something like "you shouldn't change the way it's working, what's the use risking its function for a few specialized shots?". So I quit.

Outright beginners may try and join, there is at least a chance to talk about basics, but advanced photogs get their information from trying out their ideas the way they wish, from lots of reading, and primarily from lots of shooting.
 
Very articulate and well-stated. :)
--

A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life".

(...from the generation that still uses capital letters and punctuation...)
 
Well said OldArrow, I too have seen the same sore of behaviors in clubs. The photo club here on island is into no negative feedback and cartoonish HDR. I'm not interested in either.
--
It's easier to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission.
 
It depends on the club you choose to enter, of course. I think the club that I belong to is much better than those described by Old Arrow (not that I doubt his descriptions, I have seen those also). In our club there are several categories of competition: monochrome prints; color prints; projected digital images and projected creative digital images. This allows members to compete based on prints, digital or both if they wish. Judges come from outside the club and are paid a fee to judge. They must have had experience judging and significant experience in photography. A judge normally only judges one competition during a season.

The judges are encourged to offer comments on the scores they give, it is constructive but not necessarily soft criticism. Obviously, there are disagreements with scores and much discussion, all judging is subjective and there are always differing opinions. Images can be rentered in a subsequent competition if the photographer believes it will get a better score from a different judge, providing it received below the minimum score for the photographers category level. Most disputes are mild and the best images are almost always scored the best or close to it.

While not perfect, I think it is well done and has been helpful in allowing me to progress in my photography. More so than what goes on here, although I have to agree with the OP, it has to be taken as fun and ignore the BS as much as possible.

I would recommend a photo club, read the information about the club on the web, especially the competition rules and select one that looks like what you want. Most clubs will let you observe meetings and competitions at no charge.
--
Mike

http://www.pbase.com/miklmar
 
It seems not a day goes by without discussions in this forum of cheats, sandbaggers etc. It seems to me that nothing can be effectively done about the problems of this site. This is the internet after all and by definition there can be no effective control of the participants and the inputs they/we make.
Most of us here are trying to get some effective counter-cheating tools from DPR, and once their MO bars them from entering ever more challenges on account of their previous "qualifications", they might either change their ways, or leave.
So instead of taking this site too seriously I suggest we use it as a place to have some fun. Submit images in challenges, admire (or not) other people's images, vote and then see what happens. If there is cheating point it out but laugh at the idiots that cheat, because they are the ones that probably cheat at solitaire as well.
Having cheaters around is not a laughing matter. They already know they're dishonest, but simply don't give a sheesh. They also know we think of them as idiots, and care about it the same. But our concern as hosts is about honest participants having fun and a chance to learn, compare and advance their skills. Removing cheaters and other misfits (yes, there are more ;) ) awards the honest with more accurate data and does good to the learning ones.

You might say, this is only fun photography, cheaters are not relevant... but cheaters show that there is Something to be gained for Nothing, and this attitude needs to be globally eradicated, regardless what activity, by all effective means. Every day the dishonest take away some tiny crumb of your work and mine... and it is not enough to say "that's bad", sigh, and go on.
If you really want to improve your photography and learn from your peers join your local camera club. There your photos will be judged by people who know what they are talking about and will give you constuctive criticism without having an axe to grind. That is how you can improve your skills.
To my sorrow, all the clubs I ever knew were pretty much similar, and I say that for photo, archery, ham radio, and diving clubs. These all had an internal hierarchy that was not readily visible at the moment of joining.

Long story short, if you're not taking photos the way the President and several vanity-ridden brown-noses around him think that you should, there is not much learning to have. IMHO, most clubs are run by enthusiasts who think theirs is the best way, and their knowlege is usually also a ceiling there. I have been a joiner when I was younger, but left very early when I discovered there is no real creative freedom, and too many among my questions were met with blank stares. I used to be very mechanically minded and tended to do things with my cameras that other people found interesting but mainly they'd comment something like "you shouldn't change the way it's working, what's the use risking its function for a few specialized shots?". So I quit.

Outright beginners may try and join, there is at least a chance to talk about basics, but advanced photogs get their information from trying out their ideas the way they wish, from lots of reading, and primarily from lots of shooting.
Sounds like clubs aren't the place for you :-(

I've had lots of great experiences in clubs of different sorts including photography, and have always found them great places to learn and to teach. Like with all human groups, some basic social skills are necessary you get people mixing from different backgrounds, a little diplomacy can go a long way...
 
Thanks for the reply. It is some good information.

One of the GOOD things about a site like DPR is that I get to decide the time to participate. I'm not bound by having to be at a meeting at a particular time (and driving to get there). Not that that's a horrible thing but...there is a certain amount of convenience.

And certainly, OldArrow wasn't saying ALL clubs are like what he described. I think he was just saying there is a good chance the clubs are cliquish (sp?) clique-ish and that there is a "peeking order". Glad you have found a nice one. :)

If I may ask, then, if you get somewhat professional judging there, why do you enter so many challenges here where you have to worry about the various methods of cheating?
--

A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life".

(...from the generation that still uses capital letters and punctuation...)
 
Nice to know that there are clubs that actually respect the wishes and needs of their members. I've had somewhat different luck, maybe it is just my luck, or it may be I'm not really clubs' person.
But I might give an example for the sake of better explanation.

Every judge (and I mean EVERY one) has gained their reputation in some specific field or another, becoming a specialist in it and gaining sufficient proficiency to be recognized as someone very knowlegeable. There is nothing worng with that, of course, and one can spend hours admiring their work.

But supposedly the judge who is an expert in, say, landscape photography, gets to analyse my photos which are, by way of my interest and experiences, from the underwater field of photography. There are u/w acts, macros, night photos, abstract views (like reflections and other water and light creations). There are natural photos of u/w organisms which fascinate me, but awake no special interest in an expert landscapist. Or a portrait specialist. Or someone excelling in social or street photography.

Am I to expect proper judgement from someone who, having gained a respectable niche in the photo society thru excelling in one field, gets to judge the works from another field(s), even those relatively distant from "usual" photography? Or should I have certain reservations in accepting authoritative evaluations, knowing the way some high reputations have been earned?

Exceptions to situations like this are to be welcomed and respected... but in my experience, more often than not, "experts" and "known authorities" tend to keep their status, and will begin to see themselves as called upon to express their opinions even in such cases where they have not one minute of experience. It is hard to be an authority and confess not to know all about everything... but an awful lot has already been written about vanity and personal insecurities, no need to repeat it all.

My point is, there is certain level of proficiency, skill and knowlege a beginner has to gain before this "authority" is recognized and be able to shrug off and move on. Lucky are those who join healthy societies and develop their personally preferred photography, of course, but luck shouldn't have anything to do with it.
:)
Fil
 
My point is, there is certain level of proficiency, skill and knowlege a beginner has to gain before this "authority" is recognized and be able to shrug off and move on. Lucky are those who join healthy societies and develop their personally preferred photography, of course, but luck shouldn't have anything to do with it.
:)
Fil
There's crap like that everywhere. ;) Every club, website forum, workplace, etc. That's why I used to love the photo classes they used to have in my small town. They were very inexpensive, you would be learning among those of your own skill level (beginner through advanced classes), small class size, limited time committment only for a set amount of weeks, and they were fun. Maybe some small towns still have those available through adult school, all I can find around here is the colleges and stores and want several hundred dollars per class (and usually only two or three classes!).

Meetup.com might be a good place to look for photography groups. Often you can see the places they've visited and events had, read members discussions, and even see some samples of the types of photos members take. You can do a lot of research on what they're like before you decide to join (or not). Or, you can start your own photography meet-up group and run it the way you want. From what I've seen, the site lists groups from all over the world, not just in the USA.

Lee

--

"Above all, we are coming to understand that the arts incarnate the creativity of a free people. When the creative impulse cannot flourish, when it cannot freely select its methods and objects, when it is deprived of spontaneity, then society severs the root of art."
— John F. Kennedy
 

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