Dark Bashing Days Seem to be behind us.

Many years ago, I bought my first Sony Camera - an Alpha 100 and discovered this forum. Followed the conversations for a long time and then evenually joined up. I must admit that the early days here were rough, hard to read many, many negative posts about "stripped out features", lack of Sony loyalty to it's user base, lack of distribution of Sony cameras and lack of any direction about where Sony was headed. Many a time I would read a comment about how a poster was leaving Sony. I even posted a few rants myself.

Now, all I can say wow. What a turn around. Lately I see all kinds of posts about how people are enjoying their new Sony camera. There are even posts from people who have come over from other brands to Sony. Is it just me, or is this forum becoming a much more postive and enjoyable place to visit?

It's just you - There are tons of the same threads.

I wasn't there in those days, but it sure beats the doom, gloom and whining that was the Olympus forum when people were jumping ship. Seems upbeat to me.

I remember when I first got into the Mac platform around 2000 and everyone was so down on the brand. I was doing networking back then and I could barely get the Mac to talk to the Windows machines without registry hacks, and there were missing features all over the place. Try using exchange with a mac back in 2004.. arch..Now the mac and windows machines are seamless on the same network, exchange support is native ... but it took many years of dark bashing days... and there still isn't push email on the desktop of a mac!!! unless you use Outlook, arf.

As a new owner of a A77 (coming from a very loyal Canon fan), I'm enjoying my first DSLT altho there are a few things that I hope Sony resolves in the next firmware like noise and jpeg rendering... if they do that, then I can say that they have made a fan out of me and I'll start to invest in glass. If not, then I'm going to have to keep an eye out for what Canon releases in the next 7D. While the 7D is boring, it's a standard and you can't go wrong with it.

So at this point, the ball is in Sony's court. They really put a lot of time and effort into the cameras they are releasing... from the NEX to the new Alpha products. They should really be commended for creating a beautiful line of cameras that are innovative and clearly can perform really well. But it will be a day late and dollar short if they skimp on the firmware and the hardware doesn't do all that it can do or they leave out some key feature for NO reason.

They clearly have gotten a lot of new customers..opened a lot of eyes...This forum is loaded with them as we all see (me being one of them). hopefully they treat us the right way because I'm enjoying this community and the camera

Cheers

...the high ISO bash threads have all but disappeared since more and more people were actually USING the A65/77.

Amen

felix from the suburbs said:

Many years ago, I bought my first Sony Camera - an Alpha 100 and discovered this forum. Followed the conversations for a long time and then evenually joined up. I must admit that the early days here were rough, hard to read many, many negative posts about "stripped out features", lack of Sony loyalty to it's user base, lack of distribution of Sony cameras and lack of any direction about where Sony was headed. Many a time I would read a comment about how a poster was leaving Sony. I even posted a few rants myself.

Now, all I can say wow. What a turn around. Lately I see all kinds of posts about how people are enjoying their new Sony camera. There are even posts from people who have come over from other brands to Sony. Is it just me, or is this forum becoming a much more postive and enjoyable place to visit?

Click to expand...

felix from the suburbs said:

Many years ago, I bought my first Sony Camera - an Alpha 100 and discovered this forum. Followed the conversations for a long time and then evenually joined up. I must admit that the early days here were rough, hard to read many, many negative posts about "stripped out features", lack of Sony loyalty to it's user base, lack of distribution of Sony cameras and lack of any direction about where Sony was headed. Many a time I would read a comment about how a poster was leaving Sony. I even posted a few rants myself.

Now, all I can say wow. What a turn around. Lately I see all kinds of posts about how people are enjoying their new Sony camera. There are even posts from people who have come over from other brands to Sony. Is it just me, or is this forum becoming a much more postive and enjoyable place to visit?

Click to expand...

It probably is and to my mind it is no coincidence this coincided with Sony releasing two cameras , the A65 and A77, that do not have a stripped out feature set.

All the criticisms as Sony brought out new cameras that had fewer features than the A100 (no MLU, no spot AE toggle etc etc) were valid IMO.

When Sony bring out cameras that hit the spot then it's no surprise to me the criticism dies away.

It still has not gone completely and I would not expect it to because the A65 and A77 are still not what some people want (and I don't just mean using an OVF as opposed to EVF) but I do think they satisfy far more people then any camera release since the A700 in the aps-c segment.

I myself have held off upgrading until the A77 because none of the previous APC-C did it for me. The A77 does and I am sure I am not alone in thinking "at last!"

I expect to keep the A77 for a long time as well.

it has been discussed and we have moved on. Still waiting for Sony to produce a camera with a respectable High ISO.

Or were you wanting to start it all over again?

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Thanks,

Digitalshooter

digitalshooter said:

it has been discussed and we have moved on. Still waiting for Sony to produce a camera with a respectable High ISO.

Or were you wanting to start it all over again?

--
Thanks,

Digitalshooter

Click to expand...

Agreed. The cameras have been around for sometime now. Many know what they can and cannot do. It is not fun anymore to go back to the same things and debates over and over again. In other words things have normalised and people have gone back to their normal lives again.Those who wanted to get into the Sony world, have, and those who wanted to jump ship have. There were also some people on this forum who could not take any negative thing about a77 and they are no longer posting. So it is both ways. Once one realises that it is just a camera and not a life support machine, you start using as it is supposed to be. As for myself, I would happily use a77 even though I have been against its more densed sensor. I have had a D700 for the last one and half months which I have just sold. I soon realised that FF was not for me. Most of my photos are @base ISO, so any camera that does so well up to ISO 400 is good for me as long as DR, colour sensitivity, tonality are good at those ISOs. Now I am cameraless and will be waiting for the D400. I hope it will use the 16MP sensor. Since time has gone, I believe Nikon can do something with it and give us something good.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/39182144@N03/

There will always be bashers, it's what they do. They Are never happy with anything.. their job sucks, their marriage sucks, their car sucks etc... there are always people looking at what is wrong with their marriage, job, car, and of course a camera that, for the most part, they do not own, also sucks... its part of their personality... I find it so interesting that people go through life bitching about Life in general. Always looking for what is wrong with things instead of what it right with those very same things. I am married 44 years, has it been a perfect ride?? No... But it has been worth the journey...Same with a job.. people ***** about the job they have right in the face of so many people without a job.. As Far as this forum... it has always been a hot bed of debate. Especially when it first opened here. It has subsided, for whatever the reason... complacency, even the real boo birds are throttling back.. either because, they are tired of hanging crepe, or realize for the most part, that their rants are falling on deaf ears... of course these boo birds know how to suck in many of those willing to defend this brand, but even these novices to the bait game are learning that most of these cry babies are quickly running out of ammo.
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Bill
Capturing memories, one at a time.

Visit my Smug Mug Galleries at:
http://evil-twin.smugmug.com/

I sell photo gear for a living and had spent the last year or so trying to decide which brand I should move to (or stay with in the case of Canon) and after the a65 and a77 arrived, the decision became a bit more complicated.

After some time with the new Sony's, I decided to move to the Sony platform. My a65 is a great camera (liked the slighly smaller body than the a77).

While image quality and high ISO performance might not be totally be where it might should be, the truly innovative features of these cameras, combined with the excellent build quality helped make my decision.

phiri said:

Agreed. The cameras have been around for sometime now. Many know what they can and cannot do.

Click to expand...

That and I think beyond what the latest cameras can do, everyone knew that Sony's Alpha line was in a state of transition, and many were waiting for the A77 to get a clearer picture of Sony's strategy/priorities/technology and so on. Now that there's a comprehensive and current lineup of SLTs (minus a full frame !) I think that we have a pretty clear picture and people can decide whether Sony is right for them going into the future. Not only do we know about the specific camera models, but we can assess the big questions ("do I want to commit to SLTs or move to a brand with SLRs", "is Sony dumbing down the product line" and so on).

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

I absolutely LOVE my a77! I made the switch from Nikon (D300) mainly because of the a77's support of 1080p60 video. That I got a really,really good still camera is gravy to me.

It still astounds me that virtually every other camera manufacturer is still stuck at 1080p30 (that they have the GALL to describe it as "Full HD"), which looks very un-natural and stuttery to me. Even the Nikon D4 still has only 1080p30!! Really?

Frankly it wouldn't surprise me at all if the camera after the a99 has 4K video recording with a APS-C or maybe even a FF sensor. That seems to be the trend over the next couple of years as the 1080p60 barrier has been tacked by Sony.

According to Sony Alpha Rumors (which usually gets it kind-of-right), the A900 replacement is likely to have a similar feature set, albeit FF, as the a77 with maybe some improvements. But in 2013 they are supposed to announce/release a true professional FF with very advanced features.... that's the one I'm going to guess MAY put 4K video..... on the other hand, there's a good chance that the a77 successor will have the 4K and they'll tweak it before going FF.

At any rate, I'm sure we'll find 4K in a Sony SLR in the next couple of years. I think Sony is VERY serious about the SLR/SLT business.... they've just really had some crappy luck as of late with the earthquake and floods last year. If nature will just give them a break (and maybe of Canikon fan boys, too) I think Sony is going to be a major contender.....

Or perhaps they are simply lobbying to get a problem or feature fixed or added.

Cheers,
--

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin.
You can see larger versions of my pictures at http://www.dennismullen.com .

rothwells said:

I absolutely LOVE my a77! I made the switch from Nikon (D300) mainly because of the a77's support of 1080p60 video. That I got a really,really good still camera is gravy to me.

It still astounds me that virtually every other camera manufacturer is still stuck at 1080p30 (that they have the GALL to describe it as "Full HD"), which looks very un-natural and stuttery to me. Even the Nikon D4 still has only 1080p30!! Really?

Frankly it wouldn't surprise me at all if the camera after the a99 has 4K video recording with a APS-C or maybe even a FF sensor. That seems to be the trend over the next couple of years as the 1080p60 barrier has been tacked by Sony.

According to Sony Alpha Rumors (which usually gets it kind-of-right), the A900 replacement is likely to have a similar feature set, albeit FF, as the a77 with maybe some improvements. But in 2013 they are supposed to announce/release a true professional FF with very advanced features.... that's the one I'm going to guess MAY put 4K video..... on the other hand, there's a good chance that the a77 successor will have the 4K and they'll tweak it before going FF.

At any rate, I'm sure we'll find 4K in a Sony SLR in the next couple of years. I think Sony is VERY serious about the SLR/SLT business.... they've just really had some crappy luck as of late with the earthquake and floods last year. If nature will just give them a break (and maybe of Canikon fan boys, too) I think Sony is going to be a major contender.....

Click to expand...

Let us not get ahead of time.Sony will or will not do some other things. They have put themselves on the line by putting all these features on their latest cameras. Nobody knows for sure how much it has cot them to do that. Now Sony has to wait to see if that will give them the market share that they need. If these cameras prove to be successful, marketwise, then surely Sony will up the features in the a99. I know here we can have the feeling that everybody wants to buy these cameras and that Sony will sell a boatload of them. However reality may be different and only Sony knows where they stand with these cameras. Sony is bleeding right now in most of its business entities. Depending how this year pans out to be, Sony will have a very good picture of how successful they are in the market. We should also not forget that probably Nikon D400 and successor to Canon 7D may be released this year which will be direct competitors to a77 so that will also be a determing factor
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/39182144@N03/

Dennis said:

phiri said:

Agreed. The cameras have been around for sometime now. Many know what they can and cannot do.

Click to expand...

That and I think beyond what the latest cameras can do, everyone knew that Sony's Alpha line was in a state of transition, and many were waiting for the A77 to get a clearer picture of Sony's strategy/priorities/technology and so on. Now that there's a comprehensive and current lineup of SLTs (minus a full frame !) I think that we have a pretty clear picture and people can decide whether Sony is right for them going into the future. Not only do we know about the specific camera models, but we can assess the big questions ("do I want to commit to SLTs or move to a brand with SLRs", "is Sony dumbing down the product line" and so on).

• Dennis

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I think that sums up my position. There were certain camera features that kept me with Minolta and then KM and then Sony. Both the KM7D and Sony A700 had removed some aspects of what I liked in Minolta cameras, but they were the closest I could find so I stuck with them waiting for the first true Sony 7 series camera. When the A77 came out, I was (am) disappointed that they removed some more things I liked and added features I didn't care about. I also question their over-complication/concentration on gadgets with resulting FW issues (sort of the Microsoft model). I don't mind gadgets or extra features I may not use, except when they have traded away features I use or cause problems, which is how I see things going now and in the future.

To be fair Sony has addressed and fixed some long standing issues with Minolta cameras. Also many people (or at least a high percentage on the forum) are enjoying their Sony cameras, and I am happy for them - so why rain on their parade?

I have said my piece both here and on the Sony monitored site. Short of buying Sony stock and being a pest at stockholder meetings, there's not much more to do. So I've taken the "gear pledge" and decided that I really have enough equipment (to my wife's great joy), taken the $ I had saved for an A700 replacement, STF and 70-400 lenses, and 5800 flashes, and spent them on other hobbies. I will just use what I have - hopefully it works for a long time. In the meantime I will start looking at what features of other brands have (actually just Canikon) to see if if any interest me enough to start an expensive change. (Right now they don't.)

I still follow this site, because of my interest in a-mount, and because I still learn things.

tom

Since Christmas this forum has calmed down a lot, there was a massive fall out prior to Christmas amongst many former critics of Walt and possibly myself, yet we are still here and they are not (Banned)? , so can’t be my fault, enjoy your cameras. ;-)
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--

"When I warned [the French] that Britain would fight on alone, whatever they did, their Generals told their Prime Minister and his divided cabinet: 'In three weeks, England will have her neck wrung like a chicken.

"Some chicken....Some neck!

I don't think many people blame you or even Walt. There were a lot of Nikon and Canon people over on this forum mucking up the waters. :0 Since than they have found other ways to enjoy themselves

Gavin 11 said:

Since Christmas this forum has calmed down a lot, there was a massive fall out prior to Christmas amongst many former critics of Walt and possibly myself, yet we are still here and they are not (Banned)? , so can’t be my fault, enjoy your cameras. ;-)
--
--

"When I warned [the French] that Britain would fight on alone, whatever they did, their Generals told their Prime Minister and his divided cabinet: 'In three weeks, England will have her neck wrung like a chicken.

"Some chicken....Some neck!

Click to expand...

felix from the suburbs said:

Many years ago, I bought my first Sony Camera - an Alpha 100 and discovered this forum. Followed the conversations for a long time and then evenually joined up. I must admit that the early days here were rough, hard to read many, many negative posts about "stripped out features", lack of Sony loyalty to it's user base, lack of distribution of Sony cameras and lack of any direction about where Sony was headed. Many a time I would read a comment about how a poster was leaving Sony. I even posted a few rants myself.

Now, all I can say wow. What a turn around. Lately I see all kinds of posts about how people are enjoying their new Sony camera. There are even posts from people who have come over from other brands to Sony. Is it just me, or is this forum becoming a much more postive and enjoyable place to visit?

Click to expand...

I have noticed the same phenomenon and my guess is that more people are enjoying their new cameras for what they are, not what they could be.

It always starts with lots of negative posts when a new product comes out until things settle down and people learn how to get the most out of the new equipment.
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• Happiness is: Sony SLT-A77 / Rokinon 8mm / Sigma 10-20, 18-250, 50-500mm - Karl

phiri said :

things have normalised and people have gone back to their normal lives again.Those who wanted to get into the Sony world, have, and those who wanted to jump ship have.

end of quote

Exactly.

As far as I am concerned I am not very happy with the fact that sony stop manufacturing DSLR cameras. Just a year ago I bought an A500.

There is little I can do thought. In the future probably I will buy the new Nikon 1 system that does deliver nice pictures and that is it.