Acessories compatibility?

I've been a bit slow on moving to micro4/3 as I have tried to make some sense of the options and alternatives. And I think I'll need to wrtie a post with some questions. Last one was at October, or so..

If there are mistakes, please reply.. I know less of Panasonic models, so ..

Memory cards are the same (SD/SDHD), finally.. Olympus had that stupid XD card way too many years.

Lenses seem to be compatible among brands, IIRC there was something about OIS control issues with some lenses at Oly bodies. Of course focusing speeds are different, but final accuracy is close to 100% (Af-S mode at least).

External flashes, when used right atop cameras should work with TTL. But only Olympus has the wireless-TTL control system.

External video microphones need different adapters/cables, and not all models support those.

Remote releases and batteries are incompatible. At least Oly uses the one type on all µ4/3 models (bls 1/5), not sure about Pana?

But how about those µ4/3 acessory port add-ons (like VF-2, MAL-1, PP-1) .. I know that oly has two variants of the port and some add-ons need the AP2. Is the Panasonic port same, DMW-LVF1 looks a lot like VF-2 ??

JoannaK said:

But how about those µ4/3 acessory port add-ons (like VF-2, MAL-1, PP-1) .. I know that oly has two variants of the port and some add-ons need the AP2. Is the Panasonic port same, DMW-LVF1 looks a lot like VF-2 ??

Click to expand...

The electronic viewfinders are not interchangeable. The Olympus electronic finders VF-2 and VF-3 only work with Olympus models. The newer Panasonic LVF-2 works with the new GX-1, but not with the GF-1. Panny changed their port with the GX-1, so only the LVF-1 can be used with the GF-1.

JoannaK said:

I've been a bit slow on moving to micro4/3 as I have tried to make some sense of the options and alternatives. And I think I'll need to wrtie a post with some questions. Last one was at October, or so..

If there are mistakes, please reply.. I know less of Panasonic models, so ..

Memory cards are the same (SD/SDHD), finally.. Olympus had that stupid XD card way too many years.

Click to expand...

Note, there is now a new varient (SD-XC) if you want 64GB cards. I believe the older models did not support SD-XC, but the newer ones should. Similarly there is a new speed grade for SD-HC and SD-XC cards (UHS), and presumably newer cameras support it. (the new generation of Pens do, I'm not sure about Panasonic). If you have an older laptop or card reader, it may not support SD-HC or SD-XC cards.

JoannaK said:

Lenses seem to be compatible among brands, IIRC there was something about OIS control issues with some lenses at Oly bodies. Of course focusing speeds are different, but final accuracy is close to 100% (Af-S mode at least).

Click to expand...

If you have a Panasonic lens with OIS, and there is no switch on the lens to enable or disable OIS you cannot use OIS in Olympus bodies, only the Olympus IS. The older Panasonic lenses had a switch on the lens, but the newer ones do not appear to have it. OIS in the lenses is most useful for video, but it is also useful to prevent the image from jumping around when framing handheld.

If you have a classic 4/3rds lens with the adapter, Olympus bodies will auto focus in S-AF mode, but Panasonic bodies will not AF some lenses, and on other lenses, the compatibility documents say that AF is unreliable, and you should plan on manually focusing with the lens (but it may work). None of the micro 4/3rds bodies with do continuous focusing with a classic 4/3rds lens. Either adapter (Panasonic DMW-MA1 or Olympus MMF-2) will work on any body.

JoannaK said:

External flashes, when used right atop cameras should work with TTL. But only Olympus has the wireless-TTL control system.

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Right. Note, that in addition, Panasonic does not offer any way to disable the pre-flash, which makes it harder to use external flashes as dumb slaves.

Also, note the G-F3 does not have a flash hot-shoe.

JoannaK said:

External video microphones need different adapters/cables, and not all models support those.

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All of the Olympus models, except for the E-P1 support the same adapter (SEMA-1). You cannot use the external flash or external viewfinder when the SEMA-1 is used. The SEMA-1 takes a standard phono plug, and comes with a cheap omni-directional microphone, but you can replace that.

JoannaK said:

Remote releases and batteries are incompatible. At least Oly uses the one type on all µ4/3 models (bls 1/5), not sure about Pana?

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Olympus uses the RM-UC1 on all Pens, except for the E-PL1, which does not support a wired shutter release. Note, without going to a speciality device that has a combined cable, you cannot do both shutter release and external VGA at the same time. Olympus unfortunately (IMHO) make the decision to put the cable connection on the right side where you want to grip the camera.

All Olympus bodies can use the same batteries. There are two varients: the original BLS-1 and the new BLS-5. The BLS-5 has an extra contact that is used by the new charger (BCS-5) to turn off the charger if the battery is full. This is evidently to comply with a law that went into effect in Japan 2 years ago. After the earthquake, there were reports that outside of Japan, Olympus had gone back to supplying BLM-1 and BCS-1 with new cameras. The old BLM-1 batteries cannot be charged in the new BCS-5 charger. I believe you can charge new BLM-5 batteries in the old BCS-1 charger, but Olympus doesn't recommend it.

My impression is Panasonic seems to change batteries with every new generation. Originally they were adding firmware to not run on generic batteries, but I've read they lost a lawsuit, and now share the secret sauce with the generic battery makers.

JoannaK said:

But how about those µ4/3 acessory port add-ons (like VF-2, MAL-1, PP-1) .. I know that oly has two variants of the port and some add-ons need the AP2. Is the Panasonic port same, DMW-LVF1 looks a lot like VF-2 ??

Click to expand...

The E-P1 does not have support for the accessory port.

If memory serves, the only thing that requires the 2nd generation of the accessory port on the Olympus is the PenPal bluetooth adapter. The E-P2, E-PM1, E-PL3, and E-P3 support the second generation of port.

The older Pens (E-P2, E-PL1, E-PL2) needed a firmware update to use the VF-3 viewfinder.

Panasonic and Olympus have different accessory ports.

The E-P3 has an add-on grip that is only usable on the E-P3.

As a general rule of thumb, Panasonic tends to have better video support, while Olympus tends to have better flash support.

Whoops, in my edit, I used BLM for the Olympus battery. That is the battery for the E-x, E-5xx DSLRs. I meant BLS-1 and BLS-5 as the two battery types.

Thanks for the answers, those do confiirm what I'd expect: That I need to be extra carefull when deciding what to purchase.

I now use my E510,FL36 (no R) and 14-542.8-3.5 mk1 for shooting events. Dark indoors (=dark enough to stumble) shoting with flash+bouncecard.

The new camera should have EVF, either panasonic-inbuild or olympus VL2. VL-2 I can find used in bit over 100 euros (130?) so it's not major issue. Also there seem to be steady supply of refurbisjed older pens available, so the system price won't skyrocket.

With these newer (more iso) cameras, I might get by with low power on-camera flash, If I'll purchase some wide angle wide aperture prime. Like zuiko 12mm f2.0, but it alone costs 800+ euros, while 20 mm f/1,7 has too narrow fov. Perhaps 17mm F2.8?

With zoom lenses the iso improvement is mostly gone due smaller apertures, so I'll need external flash anyhow. But if I want to use my current one (with ttl) I can't use vf-2 .. So either it'll be panasonic or remote-ttl flash (like Metz 48af-1 or 58af-1) for pen.

decisions, decisions... Ah well.. I think I'll wait at least a week, not that I'd be bying that OM-D. But there may well be some older M4/3 to market.

It seems you have things mostly sorted out, so I'll just add that my links page may help find extra info about compatibilities and general info. Mostly Pen but enough Panasonic links to be interesting. http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/03-epl1-links.html

I suspect that the OM-D (or whatever it turns out to be named) may usher in a new era for M4/3 and we may start to see some more items appearing to better suit more enthusiastic users. Things like weather sealing & built-in EVF now, and bigger aperture zooms hopefully down the track. Faster AF with the 4/3 line of lenses would solve a multitude of problems immediately, fingers crossed in hope.

Oh well, only need to wait until next Wednesday to see the start of it.....

Regards.......... Guy

Michael Meissner said:

Note, there is now a new varient (SD-XC) if you want 64GB cards. I believe the older models did not support SD-XC, but the newer ones should. Similarly there is a new speed grade for SD-HC and SD-XC cards (UHS), and presumably newer cameras support it. (the new generation of Pens do, I'm not sure about Panasonic).

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The Panasonic GX1 is the first Panasonic to support UHS-1

JoannaK said:

Thanks for the answers, those do confiirm what I'd expect: That I need to be extra carefull when deciding what to purchase.

I now use my E510,FL36 (no R) and 14-542.8-3.5 mk1 for shooting events. Dark indoors (=dark enough to stumble) shoting with flash+bouncecard.

Click to expand...

One thing to note, none of the micro 4/3rds cameras will use the focus assist light in the FL-36 like the E-510 did. Some of them have a focus assist light on the body.

JoannaK said:

The new camera should have EVF, either panasonic-inbuild or olympus VL2. VL-2 I can find used in bit over 100 euros (130?) so it's not major issue. Also there seem to be steady supply of refurbisjed older pens available, so the system price won't skyrocket.

Click to expand...

An alternative is to use a loupe over the LCD, which allows to use the camera up to your eye, but it doesn't require an external viewfinder. I bought a clearviewer ( http://www.clearviewer.com ), but there are other solutions out.

JoannaK said:

With these newer (more iso) cameras, I might get by with low power on-camera flash, If I'll purchase some wide angle wide aperture prime. Like zuiko 12mm f2.0, but it alone costs 800+ euros, while 20 mm f/1,7 has too narrow fov. Perhaps 17mm F2.8?

Click to expand...

I'm not following you here about the narrow FOV. You can stop down the 20mm to f/2.8. Of course the exposure time goes down as there is more light entering the camera. But if you need faster shutter speed over depth of field, you have the option. Similarly, since you have the 14-54mm mark 1, you can get the adapter and use that. Focus is on the slow side, but it can be used if you aren't photographing kids or any really fast moving subjects

JoannaK said:

With zoom lenses the iso improvement is mostly gone due smaller apertures, so I'll need external flash anyhow. But if I want to use my current one (with ttl) I can't use vf-2 .. So either it'll be panasonic or remote-ttl flash (like Metz 48af-1 or 58af-1) for pen.

Click to expand...

Note if you require the use of the VF-2 or VF-3, you are limiting yourself to just the E-PL1, E-PL2 or E-P3 with the remote ttl flashes. The E-P1 and E-P2 don't have a pop-up flash, and the E-PM1 and E-PL3 use a clip-on flash that uses the accessory port.

Also, the Metz 48/50/58 tend to make the camera too top heavy IMHO. I like the balance of the FL-36 on the E-P2, particularly with the 14-150mm lens. There is now a cheaper remote TTL flash, namely the cactus AF50 that you can get from: http://www.gadgetinfinity.com/cactus-af50-ttl-camera-flash-speedlite-for-olympus-panasonic.html

Michael Meissner said:

JoannaK said:

Thanks for the answers, those do confiirm what I'd expect: That I need to be extra carefull when deciding what to purchase.

I now use my E510,FL36 (no R) and 14-542.8-3.5 mk1 for shooting events. Dark indoors (=dark enough to stumble) shoting with flash+bouncecard.

Click to expand...

One thing to note, none of the micro 4/3rds cameras will use the focus assist light in the FL-36 like the E-510 did. Some of them have a focus assist light on the body.

Click to expand...

They don't? Why?.. Ok, if there is AF-light on body, but fot the rest? IMHO they at least should have given an option to try it.

Ah well.. I can allways make my own light with couple of leds, resistor and some batteries. And even print a custon enclosure if I want to.

Michael Meissner said:

Michael Meissner said:

The new camera should have EVF, either panasonic-inbuild or olympus VL2. VL-2 I can find used in bit over 100 euros (130?) so it's not major issue. Also there seem to be steady supply of refurbisjed older pens available, so the system price won't skyrocket.

Click to expand...

An alternative is to use a loupe over the LCD, which allows to use the camera up to your eye, but it doesn't require an external viewfinder. I bought a clearviewer ( http://www.clearviewer.com ), but there are other solutions out.

Click to expand...

I have seen pics of those, but I'm not sure if I'd want to hold camera (with flash) 4+ hours (or so) at arm's length to see the Lcd. This I'll need to check myself when the time comes.

Michael Meissner said:

Michael Meissner said:

With these newer (more iso) cameras, I might get by with low power on-camera flash, If I'll purchase some wide angle wide aperture prime. Like zuiko 12mm f2.0, but it alone costs 800+ euros, while 20 mm f/1,7 has too narrow fov. Perhaps 17mm F2.8?

Click to expand...

I'm not following you here about the narrow FOV. You can stop down the 20mm to f/2.8. Of course the exposure time goes down as there is more light entering the camera. But if you need faster shutter speed over depth of field, you have the option. Similarly, since you have the 14-54mm mark 1, you can get the adapter and use that. Focus is on the slow side, but it can be used if you aren't photographing kids or any really fast moving subjects

Click to expand...

I'm not worried about Dof... I'm worried about the area I can cover without backin up too much.. I have found that 14-42 (or 14-54 which I prefer) are wide enough for my needs.. with 20mm lens I'd had to take the picture a lot further away, and it's not allways feasible option.

Michael Meissner said:

Michael Meissner said:

With zoom lenses the iso improvement is mostly gone due smaller apertures, so I'll need external flash anyhow. But if I want to use my current one (with ttl) I can't use vf-2 .. So either it'll be panasonic or remote-ttl flash (like Metz 48af-1 or 58af-1) for pen.

Click to expand...

Note if you require the use of the VF-2 or VF-3, you are limiting yourself to just the E-PL1, E-PL2 or E-P3 with the remote ttl flashes. The E-P1 and E-P2 don't have a pop-up flash, and the E-PM1 and E-PL3 use a clip-on flash that uses the accessory port.

Click to expand...

These limitations (like no flash with EVF) are quite anonying, especially since they seem to switch around from year to year without any detectable logic.

Michael Meissner said:

Also, the Metz 48/50/58 tend to make the camera too top heavy IMHO. I like the balance of the FL-36 on the E-P2, particularly with the 14-150mm lens. There is now a cheaper remote TTL flash, namely the cactus AF50 that you can get from: http://www.gadgetinfinity.com/cactus-af50-ttl-camera-flash-speedlite-for-olympus-panasonic.html

Click to expand...

You may well be right about the weight of the Metz flashes. A lot depends on the body design (grip etc) but that definitely is something to think about. The reason I'd try metz-48 is faster recharge than FL-36 . fl-36 is quite ok flash as long as you make sure you never shoot full blast (what little it does), but if you'll empty it out, the charge time is way too long.

I'll need to check that Cactus flash, read the manual and try to find where it could be bought around here ... (at least in EU)..

JoannaK said:

I now use my E510,FL36 (no R) and 14-542.8-3.5 mk1 for shooting events. Dark indoors (=dark enough to stumble) shoting with flash+bouncecard.

Click to expand...

I went from an E520 with 14-54 MK I and 70-300mm to an E-PM1 + 14-42X, [email protected] and 45-175X. I also added a VF2 which is much better than the OVF in the 520! This setup definitely outperforms my 520 and I'm happy I switched. Funny enough my entire m4/3 kit fits in the bag that used to just hold my e520 and the 14-42 kit lens (with a tight fit).

JoannaK said:

With these newer (more iso) cameras, I might get by with low power on-camera flash, If I'll purchase some wide angle wide aperture prime. Like zuiko 12mm f2.0, but it alone costs 800+ euros, while 20 mm f/1,7 has too narrow fov. Perhaps 17mm F2.8?

Click to expand...

The [email protected] may be a better choice. Bit faster than the 17. Not as good as the 12 for sure, but at $200 from fleabay it's not bad. Or the [email protected] Pany zoom may be a better choice even if it is a bit more money for the flexibility.

The [email protected] is phenomenal and I really love the output. Sounds like you wouldn't like the fov though.

JoannaK said:

With zoom lenses the iso improvement is mostly gone due smaller apertures, so I'll need external flash anyhow. But if I want to use my current one (with ttl) I can't use vf-2 .. So either it'll be panasonic or remote-ttl flash (like Metz 48af-1 or 58af-1) for pen.

Click to expand...

The OMD would obviously solve that. But what I've found is that if you need flash, you don't need the EVF. I don't hold the camera out at arms length when using the LCD. Instead I brace my two elbows on the sides of my chest and hold it about 10 inches from my face. It's very steady that way.

JoannaK said:

decisions, decisions... Ah well.. I think I'll wait at least a week, not that I'd be bying that OM-D. But there may well be some older M4/3 to market.

Click to expand...

You can also get started with a used m4/3 body and build your lens collection. Then when the OM-D drops a bit in price, you can pick one up (or even the E-P3). Sounds like you'd want a camera bigger than the E-PM1, though I love mine. With the 14-42X lens I fit it comfortably in the APE 150 belt case!

Kevdog said:

JoannaK said:

I now use my E510,FL36 (no R) and 14-542.8-3.5 mk1 for shooting events. Dark indoors (=dark enough to stumble) shoting with flash+bouncecard.

Click to expand...

I went from an E520 with 14-54 MK I and 70-300mm to an E-PM1 + 14-42X, [email protected] and 45-175X. I also added a VF2 which is much better than the OVF in the 520! This setup definitely outperforms my 520 and I'm happy I switched. Funny enough my entire m4/3 kit fits in the bag that used to just hold my e520 and the 14-42 kit lens (with a tight fit).

Click to expand...

Kevdog said:

Kevdog said:

With these newer (more iso) cameras, I might get by with low power on-camera flash, If I'll purchase some wide angle wide aperture prime. Like zuiko 12mm f2.0, but it alone costs 800+ euros, while 20 mm f/1,7 has too narrow fov. Perhaps 17mm F2.8?

Click to expand...

The [email protected] may be a better choice. Bit faster than the 17. Not as good as the 12 for sure, but at $200 from fleabay it's not bad. Or the [email protected] Pany zoom may be a better choice even if it is a bit more money for the flexibility.

The [email protected] is phenomenal and I really love the output. Sounds like you wouldn't like the fov though.

Click to expand...

Well.. I usually tend to photo either arund 14 or 50 mm with my 14.54.. somehow the middle is not what I'll need as much. And I think I don't need the maximum sharpness (usually use 1454 wide open), so the [email protected] sounds quite feasible.. And it definitely won't take much space.

(flash with VF-2 ... )

Kevdog said:

The OMD would obviously solve that. But what I've found is that if you need flash, you don't need the EVF. I don't hold the camera out at arms length when using the LCD. Instead I brace my two elbows on the sides of my chest and hold it about 10 inches from my face. It's very steady that way.

Click to expand...

Good to hear. It may well be that PM-1 would not be impossible afterall. How bright is the LCD screen, will it adjustable to real low brigthness (night mode would be real cool t have)?

Kevdog said:

Kevdog said:

decisions, decisions... Ah well.. I think I'll wait at least a week, not that I'd be bying that OM-D. But there may well be some older M4/3 to market.

Click to expand...

You can also get started with a used m4/3 body and build your lens collection. Then when the OM-D drops a bit in price, you can pick one up (or even the E-P3). Sounds like you'd want a camera bigger than the E-PM1, though I love mine. With the 14-42X lens I fit it comfortably in the APE 150 belt case!

Click to expand...

Well.. At least during this time of year... I was shooting some photos out there, -20C (not sure what that's in Farenheit, but frosty). At summertime a small camera with touch screen might be nice, but not now...

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/2001296065/albums/winterfrost

Michael Meissner said:

If you have a Panasonic lens with OIS, and there is no switch on the lens to enable or disable OIS you cannot use OIS in Olympus bodies, only the Olympus IS.

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I have no direct experience, but the Olympus manual states that OIS lenses can be used but IBIS has to be turned off (or viceversa, of course)

Added question, does the Olympus macro light required the data port? Can I use it on a Panasonic gx1?
--
:hinting
http://www.redbubble.com/people/hinting/art

hinting said:

Added question, does the Olympus macro light required the data port? Can I use it on a Panasonic gx1?

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It draws power for the twin LED from the accessory port, unique to the Olympus cameras.

However, I do expect Chinese entrepreneurs in future make similar but universal swan necks of macro light containng their own power source.

hinting said:

Added question, does the Olympus macro light required the data port? Can I use it on a Panasonic gx1?

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As mentioned, it will not work.

For the M4/3 cameras that have the necessary power-providing accessory port under the hot-shoe.....

♦ Olympus viewfinders and other accessories only fit all Olympus cameras that have the necessary port.

♦ Panasonic viewfinders and accessories only fit Panasonic cameras, except that the GX1 has a new style accessory port and old Panasonic viewfinders and accessories do not fit the new arrangement on the GX1, and the GX1 viewfinder and accessories (any?) do not fit the earlier Panasonic cameras.

It seems only lenses and flashes are interchangeable across brands with some feature exceptions, but the other hot-shoe devices are just not compatible.

Regards.......... Guy