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Fuji X10 love?

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Whatever reflections etc. those are, the are NOT orbs. People have tried to prove that other cameras can make them and simply they have not been able to.
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'Bass-ackward' does not equate to 'superior'.
 
Miss snow so much.

Come to that, I miss countryside so much.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
knurl said:
examples at the beginning of this thread are pretty close. especially the leica.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1773207@N23/discuss/72157628535486713/
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Don't know why people find this so difficult.

EVERY example I've seen posted from another camera that is supposed to be an "orb" is NOT that unique Fuji hard-edged orb.

I tried shooting a street scene last night with the X10 in both EXR and Auto modes, even taking the EV down to -2, and STILL got the Fuji's unique hard-edged orbs.

The lights on the left ARE spherical. The orange light on the right, and the car headlights in the distance were not.

The aim was NOT to shoot orbs. The aim was to shoot the street scene without orbs, without excessive noise. It failed.

Even when I woefully underexposed the rest of the image, it failed. (This is in big contrast to the shots posted from competing cameras which are almost always OVER exposed)

I didn't push the camera up to 3200 ISO, but these were NOT long exposures. They were handheld.

Yes many cameras clip highlights. In fact, almost all cameras clip highlights. Only my X10 produces hard edged orbs (or hard edged highlight clipping that hasn't quite become spherical yet) that take a bite out of surrounding information.

Incidentally, people who don't like to be reminded of this kind of thing seem to think those of us who experience are going out and trying to make the camera NOT work. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am doing everything I can to find ways for it to live up to its potential. But it seems that ultimately only Fuji can do that.





--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
Apparently the Orb issue is greatly reduced at 800 and even more so at 1600. I just got my X10 recently so I haven't tested this issue so I'm by no means an expert. Based upon what I've seen though, at 1600, the issue is greatly reduced. Did you try an image of the same scene at 1600?

I'm going to play around a bit for street work...but I am indeed waiting for the firmware to at least partially correct it.
 
GaryJP said:
...

The aim was NOT to shoot orbs. The aim was to shoot the street scene without orbs, without excessive noise. It failed.

Even when I woefully underexposed the rest of the image, it failed. (This is in big contrast to the shots posted from competing cameras which are almost always OVER exposed)

I didn't push the camera up to 3200 ISO , but these were NOT long exposures. They were handheld.
...
Click to expand...
no you sure didn't push it up to iso3200. in fact you didn't even push it over iso400.
what, your version has no iso settings inbetween 400 and 3200?

i can see you tried really really hard not to get orbs.
thanks for your genuine effort.
 
knurl said:
GaryJP said:
...

The aim was NOT to shoot orbs. The aim was to shoot the street scene without orbs, without excessive noise. It failed.

Even when I woefully underexposed the rest of the image, it failed. (This is in big contrast to the shots posted from competing cameras which are almost always OVER exposed)

I didn't push the camera up to 3200 ISO , but these were NOT long exposures. They were handheld.
...
Click to expand...
no you sure didn't push it up to iso3200. in fact you didn't even push it over iso400.
what, your version has no iso settings inbetween 400 and 3200?

i can see you tried really really hard not to get orbs.
thanks for your genuine effort.
Click to expand...
You missed the bit about trying to keep noise down. It's the words that say without excessive noise .

What's the point of a fast lens I can't use?

Yes, I know the high ISO recommendations.

If I am using ISO 1600 I can use my Canon G12 or my Lumix G1X and get just as good (probably better) images, because effectively you've destroyed any advantage of the fast lens. And the problem may be minimised but NOT avoided.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
Faintandfuzzy said:
Apparently the Orb issue is greatly reduced at 800 and even more so at 1600. I just got my X10 recently so I haven't tested this issue so I'm by no means an expert. Based upon what I've seen though, at 1600, the issue is greatly reduced. Did you try an image of the same scene at 1600?
Click to expand...
On this occasion no. On other occasions yes. I may still try more. On the other hand I've got orbs in broad daylight. What kind of fool (not aimed at you) believes we should shoot ISO 1600 in broad daylight?

The point is that, as some have pointed out, this camera is NOT noise free at 1600.
Far from it.

To me IQ means as little noise as possible and no orbs. Some people argue that trying to kill orbs is worth the loss of IQ in noise. Even in daylight.

A -2 EV is NOT a minimal compromise as it is.
Faintandfuzzy said:
I'm going to play around a bit for street work...but I am indeed waiting for the firmware to at least partially correct it.
Click to expand...
I think it's worth trying whatever you can. If you have better luck than me, let me know.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
GaryJP said:
Faintandfuzzy said:
Apparently the Orb issue is greatly reduced at 800 and even more so at 1600. I just got my X10 recently so I haven't tested this issue so I'm by no means an expert. Based upon what I've seen though, at 1600, the issue is greatly reduced. Did you try an image of the same scene at 1600?
Click to expand...
On this occasion no. On other occasions yes. I may still try more. On the other hand I've got orbs in broad daylight. What kind of fool (not aimed at you) believes we should shoot ISO 1600 in broad daylight?

The point is that, as some have pointed out, this camera is NOT noise free at 1600.
Far from it.

To me IQ means as little noise as possible and no orbs. Some people argue that trying to kill orbs is worth the loss of IQ in noise. Even in daylight.

A -2 EV is NOT a minimal compromise as it is.
GaryJP said:
I'm going to play around a bit for street work...but I am indeed waiting for the firmware to at least partially correct it.
Click to expand...
I think it's worth trying whatever you can. If you have better luck than me, let me know.
Click to expand...
Will do. I don't think there is a magic bullet on this one. Hopefully the firmware can at least help a bit.

And I agree, on a sunny day, iso 1600 is not an option.
GaryJP said:
--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
Click to expand...
 
Faintandfuzzy said:
Faintandfuzzy said:
The point is that, as some have pointed out, this camera is NOT noise free at 1600.
Far from it.

To me IQ means as little noise as possible and no orbs. Some people argue that trying to kill orbs is worth the loss of IQ in noise. Even in daylight.

A -2 EV is NOT a minimal compromise as it is.
Faintandfuzzy said:
I'm going to play around a bit for street work...but I am indeed waiting for the firmware to at least partially correct it.
Click to expand...
I think it's worth trying whatever you can. If you have better luck than me, let me know.
Click to expand...
Will do. I don't think there is a magic bullet on this one. Hopefully the firmware can at least help a bit.

And I agree, on a sunny day, iso 1600 is not an option.
Click to expand...
I have shot this exact same street scene at ISO 3200 in the night. Orbs were minimised but at any kind of crop and certainly at 100% the detail looks like a watercolour painting.

The orange light is still supposed to be a trapezoid shape but it became a circle.





--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
Gary, what about lifting Shadow Tone (soft or m-soft) while increasing noise-filtering at low ISO?

I don't have an example ready, but this is what it looks like with noise filtering set to soft (plus Highlights set to hard). Noise is quite visible in shadow areas because of the lifting, but higher filtering may get you there. Curiously our street-lamps have the exact same form as the ones on the right side of your image.





Here is what it looks like with Std Highlights and shorter exposure time (to give an idea of how the lamp/highlight shape changes):





F11 likely is too much, but I wanted to see how far a closed down aperture can get me with controlling orbs on the lamps and putting it more in a star-shaped form.
 
Timur Born said:
Gary, what about lifting Shadow Tone (soft or m-soft) while increasing noise-filtering at low ISO?
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I have set tones to m-soft, on the newer pictures not the ISO 3200 one. It's something I'm experimenting with.

I haven't also set the highlights to hard yet. Perhaps I'll try that.
Timur Born said:
F11 likely is too much, but I wanted to see how far a closed down aperture can get me with controlling orbs on the lamps and putting it more in a star-shaped form.
Click to expand...
Yes. Often these cameras will over expose if left to their own devices. I might try going beyond the -2 EV and push it down further in manual.

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
Absolutely love your shots! Like your the beginning of your posting:
Michael49 said:
I'm surprised by how much negativity I see posted here about the X10. Where's the X10 love?
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I was kind of hoping for some postings on the joy of using such a quality camera, the optics, the handling, the feel, etc. But then the thread is totally hi-jacked by the orbs and it just goes on with streetlamps like so many other threads here. Kind of sad...
 
Dennis said:
Dennis62370 said:
I'm surprised by how much negativity I see posted here about the X10. Where's the X10 love?
Click to expand...
I was kind of hoping for some postings on the joy of using such a quality camera, the optics, the handling, the feel, etc. But then the thread is totally hi-jacked by the orbs and it just goes on with streetlamps like so many other threads here. Kind of sad...
Click to expand...
It's the orbsessive depressive syndrome. They cannot see anything else. Their loss...

Enrique
 
Someone give me $600 for my X10 and I'll stop complaining about the ORBS.
 
I see you are trawling for camera recommendations on another forum.
--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” Ernst Haas

http://garyp.zenfolio.com/p518883873/
 
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