Reading mode: Light Dark

1D or wait til PMA?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Beth
  • Start date Start date
Go to last post
Thank you SO much, Bill, for the reasoned response! I needed that!

Now don't go telling stories on me! Yes folks, I DID take a shot on a bridge from a moving car--from the passing lane!! But as you can see, I was just about the only car on the bridge and I was SUPER careful--is that possible? I think had I mixed it up with the cement mixer, I'd have been the one in a 'mess.' He'd have come out unscathed! Where else was I going to get this perspective??? Isn't it the job of the photographer to get the shot come ell or high water?



Thanks Bill! I'm going to TRY very hard to wait til after PMA. YOu can expect me to be hanging out here a good deal between now and then trying to learn what I can.

Beth
Bill Harris said:
Hiya Beth

As a former E10'er who always enjoyed and still do your work I'll
offer up my opinion based on what I percieve as your 'style'.

The 1D or 1Ds for that matter, will be just overly cumbersome and
you'll long for something more 'compact' quite quickly. It is a
heavy beast and for some easily adjustable. I don't think it will
be in your case.

I also think the 1D is somewhat lacking the pixel power to satisfy
your large print needs. Others will probably disagree.

I think the size of the D30/D60 body is more what you would be
inclined to be happy with size wise. It's not small by any means,
but more in line with what you are used to. Of course your more
than aware of it's size since your Brother has the D30.

I personally think the low light issue your concerned with with the
D60 is overblown, but on the same token I'll fully admit it's
nowhere nears as good as the 1D, but with the right lens it can be
a compromise that will work especially with a STE2 mounted.

At this point, I would say put your patience cap on (which I
believe is well seated anyhow :> ) ) and wait for PMA and see what
happens. If nothing is announced, and you are ready to make a move,
I would suggest the D60 as your next logical direction vs the 1D.
Don't know what your opinion is with regards with a CMOS sensor,
but I wouldn't buy any camera without it until a new technology
proves itself superior.

Remember! My opinion. Your mileage may vary!

Bill

PS Keep both hands on the wheel. No more shots with one arm out the
window clicking away. LOL..remember??
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Well, Matt, the 1Ds would be wonderful, but it's WAY out of my league pricewise, so I guess I'll sit tight and hope for something in an intermediate range from PMA in March!
Matthew Cromer said:
Only with the advent of the 1Ds are serious landscape photographers
starting to move towards 35mm digital.

You can get nice results with smaller file size up to 8x10, but if
you care about fine detail you need lots of pixels to make really
nice enlargements that compare favorably with MF and LF.

What we are talking about with the 1Ds is a camera that compares
well to 645 on provia. So at this point the landscape folks start
getting interested.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Oh dear. You really don't have a clue, do you?

While they are both 4mp cameras there are several reasons why the 1D blows away an E10; noise, sensor size, AA filter strength, lens quality. The 1D resolves 93% of the detail a D60 can with 6mp. And before anyone whines, I've owned all 3.

Apart from the 1Ds, the 1D is the most advanced all round DSLR. Period.
Matthew Cromer said:
Is it doesn't have any more pixels than your E10.

There should be some 8-10MP cameras coming available this spring in
the same price range as the 1D.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
--
Cheers,

Stuart Rider.
 
Your prints uprezzed from 4MP are going to be compared to prints made from the 11MP D1s and 14MP 14N cameras as well as MF and LF.

Those cameras have almost twice as much resolution going up to 3-4 times the resolution for LF cameras.

For large prints, there will be a lot, LOT more detail available from the D1s and 14N prints.

If you want to have a camera that you can use for the next 3, 4, 5, 10 years without feeling "outclassed", you simply need those extra megapixels.

If you were just shooting portraits of 1 person or two, or doing sports or bird photography or handheld street photos, the answer would be quite different, but for the kinds of architectual, indoor and outdoor city photography I see in your portfolio the 11-15MP cameras are just going to dominate the 4MP 1D for generating large prints.

You will, of course, have to use a tripod when making these pictures, or the difference between 4MP and 15MP will be irrelevant.

I know you want to buy Canon, but for your kind of photography the Nikon lens line should be just as good (unless you really plan to make use of IS) and the Kodak 14N is far, far less expensive than the 1Ds.

Anyway, it's your choice, I'm simply being biased because I think you are an outstanding photographer and want you to use the best possible tools you need to make the kinds of images you like to make. Who knows, I might be able to buy a 20 x 30 from you at some point if I can ever scrape some nickels together.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
 
Thank you, Matt, for the kind words about the photography. Coming from you I take it as a real compliment! (I know Matt from months ago on another forum!) I really appreciate the wisdom about resolution and file sizes. These are all tihngs to take into consideration. I have begun lens research though and if I start purchasing lenses, the die will be cast! (That was going to be my strategy--buy a couple of lenses and have them 'in the bag' so to speak ready for whatever Canon SLR might wander by.)

Beth
Matthew Cromer said:
Your prints uprezzed from 4MP are going to be compared to prints
made from the 11MP D1s and 14MP 14N cameras as well as MF and LF.

Those cameras have almost twice as much resolution going up to 3-4
times the resolution for LF cameras.

For large prints, there will be a lot, LOT more detail available
from the D1s and 14N prints.

If you want to have a camera that you can use for the next 3, 4, 5,
10 years without feeling "outclassed", you simply need those extra
megapixels.

If you were just shooting portraits of 1 person or two, or doing
sports or bird photography or handheld street photos, the answer
would be quite different, but for the kinds of architectual, indoor
and outdoor city photography I see in your portfolio the 11-15MP
cameras are just going to dominate the 4MP 1D for generating large
prints.

You will, of course, have to use a tripod when making these
pictures, or the difference between 4MP and 15MP will be irrelevant.

I know you want to buy Canon, but for your kind of photography the
Nikon lens line should be just as good (unless you really plan to
make use of IS) and the Kodak 14N is far, far less expensive than
the 1Ds.

Anyway, it's your choice, I'm simply being biased because I think
you are an outstanding photographer and want you to use the best
possible tools you need to make the kinds of images you like to
make. Who knows, I might be able to buy a 20 x 30 from you at some
point if I can ever scrape some nickels together.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Stuart Rider said:
Oh dear. You really don't have a clue, do you?
Click to expand...
No, you don't. Have you ever looked at Beth's portfolio?
Stuart Rider said:
While they are both 4mp cameras there are several reasons why the
1D blows away an E10; noise, sensor size, AA filter strength, lens
quality. The 1D resolves 93% of the detail a D60 can with 6mp.
And before anyone whines, I've owned all 3.

Apart from the 1Ds, the 1D is the most advanced all round DSLR.
Period.
Click to expand...
It has scarcely any more resolution than her existing kit, not enough to notice in a print. The big advantage it would have for her is much cleaner pixels and more lens options.

It's just as advanced as the 1Ds, they are essentially the same camera with a different imager.

The 1D is a superb camera. However it doesn't have enough pixels to compete with MF. Beth wants a camera she can use for many years and make large prints with. She shoots a lot of architectural and cityscape photos. She needs resolution. The 1D doesn't have enough of it for really large, detailed prints. The 1Ds does (although just enough, really).

She can't trade up in a year unlike just about all the rest of you who have tons of money to burn. She isn't shooting street motorcycle racing events or birds flying around as Bosque. She wants a camera she can use for a very long time for her style of image-making.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
 
Beth said:
Do you really think that prices will drop that quickly?
Click to expand...
Yes. Assuming that you are willing to buy a refurbished or used unit. The 1D has been cut in half in a year's time, as has just about every other dSLR model. Once the D90 comes out, the D60 will be available used for $1,200.

Digital cameras make very poor investments ;-)

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
 
A BIG smile!!!! Well, that's bad news for people with deep pockets who jump in when these cameras first hit the shelves, but for people like ME, it's extremely GOOD news! The early bird may catch the worm, but the pidgeon gets well-fed on the crumbs!

Beth
Matthew Cromer said:
Beth said:
Do you really think that prices will drop that quickly?
Click to expand...
Yes. Assuming that you are willing to buy a refurbished or used
unit. The 1D has been cut in half in a year's time, as has just
about every other dSLR model. Once the D90 comes out, the D60 will
be available used for $1,200.

Digital cameras make very poor investments ;-)

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Beth, I am sure many have already responded well here--I haven't read responses, but here's my take.

In the fall, I went from e20 to 1d...
Beth said:
it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I
am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing
Click to expand...
Obviously the 1D is fast: focuses fast, writes fast, displays fast. You won't miss shots with it.
Member said:
I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often
used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise.
Click to expand...
The 1D is fantastic on noise. Shooting at 800 is no problem, as the noise is still low enough for solid prints that are less noisy than most 200 film (in my experience).
Member said:
I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at
least 13x19!
Click to expand...
Even though the 1D is 4mp, it is sharp. It is as sharp and resolves only 7-8% less than the d60. The 1D uses a weaker antialias filter (which sometimes, rarely, gives moire), and it shows in the sharp output. You should have NO problems with 13x19 (which looks as good or better than 35mm film enlarge to same). 20x30, that could get dicier. Some artifacts are going to show at that size. But it is still great. The 1Ds will do better. The D60 and fuji S2 will do a bit better at 20x30, but not much.
Member said:
(I would think of
the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus
problems.)
Click to expand...
The lo-light focus issue of the D60 is not as bad as you might think. It is better than the E10/20 by a bit. It is not pro level, when you are used to the 1D. But most folks use an external EX flash in that much dark. And the red AF assist lamp on the flash works in pitch black, so no focusing problems with it.

The D60's biggest drawback, comparing to the 1D, is the D60's inability to track moving targets. If you do not shoot sports, the D60 should be great for you. Don't worry about lo-light focus on it--it's not that bad.
Member said:
I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is,
can I carry around the extra weight?
Click to expand...
I worried about that too, since the E20 was just big enough for me, it seemed. My solution was to get an optech bino/cam X harness. It really spreads the weight around. On a few trips this fall/winter, I used my 1D (where normally I would take a small rangefinder) and did not feel the weight drag me down. With an ordinary strap, I am sure it would've been a problem. The 1d is heavy.
Member said:
Will I need to take most of my
photos from a tripod? I'm told that a big camera like this is
almost impossible to handhold. Is that true?
Click to expand...
Nope. It is very easy to handhold. Use the hand strap, the bino/cam X harness and it becomes VERY stable without a tripod. You can do the same with the D60 with the optional grip too.
Member said:
will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos?
Click to expand...
As large as you want (grin). It will compare to film for most shots, except with high-detailed scenes (architecture and wide landscape). It will be more than enough for you, I believe, as long as you don't extensively crop.

You should consider the D60, though, for saving money and weight. As long as you don't shoot sports, the D60 is a fantastic camera. Still, I wouldn't trade the 1D for it (even if they cost the same). The 1D has so many advantages and so few drawbacks (including only the weight/size, the slightly lower battery life and the slightly fewer pixels).

G'Luck
 
I am in a bit of the same situation as ou are but im waiting to atleast the next pma, i mean theres so much happening in the digital camera "scene" that id rather buy a camera that wont drop the price a week after ive bought it, and actually ther modern d-slrs arent really good enough for the money yet imho.
 
Matthew Cromer said:
It has scarcely any more resolution than her existing kit
Click to expand...
This statement is not true. I owned an E20 and got the 1D. I compared both before selling the E20, and I can tell you without a doubt the 1D is resolving and keeping far more detail than the 5mp E20. Lenses as well as AA filter, processing and low noise all add up to a significant advantage.
Matthew Cromer said:
Beth wants a camera she can use for many years
and make large prints with. She shoots a lot of architectural and
cityscape photos. She needs resolution.
Click to expand...
This is a good point. In her price range, that leaves the D60 or the Fuji S2. Still a refurbed 1D @ $2500 would compete as well as the d60/s2. I would not suggest the D100 to her.

She (and I) cannot afford a 1Ds. It would be perfect for her, but is just too much. Perhaps the Kodak 14n would be a good, still pricey, option?
 
As for waiting, understand that if you really think that you'll buy one of the new models announced at PMA, you will wait months after that before you'll even see solid reviews coming out, and more waiting till they hit shelves.

The way you should view it: Whatever models exist right now are the ones you should pick from. Wait for PMA, saving, then when the prices drop on some of the current models, you might just be able to afford one.

Waiting is not a problem as long as you know well ahead what your plan is. Don't wait, and then act impulsively. Wait with reason and patience.
 
Beth said:
Beth wrote:

I have been an Oly E10 shooter for a year and a half now. Though
it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I
am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing
shots to poor focusing in low light (partly my problem possibly).
I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often
used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise. This
camera CAN produce a images almost as nice as a D30's with lots of
work! I'm tired of losing shots as the buffer clears after 4 shots!
I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at
least 13x19!

So, now what? Well, I thought I'd wait til after PMA to see what's
new. Then I read a 1D review. Wow! sounds like a super camera that
would solve all the problems I cataloged above. (I would think of
the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus
problems.)

I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is,
can I carry around the extra weight? Will I need to take most of my
photos from a tripod?
Click to expand...
It´s heavy but, hey is a 35mm camera, don´t need a tripod.

I'm told that a big camera like this is
Member said:
almost impossible to handhold. Is that true? I'm used to taking my
camera EVERYWHERE with me and around my neck most of the time. Will
I develop wrestler's neck after a few weeks with a 1D? How large
will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos?
This is important and the main impetus for the upgrade. I need to
be able to produce large prints from time to time. I like the fact
that this is a tank of a camera with seals to protect from moisture
too.

Where might I pick up a refurb? Anyone here dealt with refurbished
cameras? I'm still not sure it's the camera for me, but expect that
your answers will help me decide.

If you'd like to see my typical shooting style, please feel free to
visit my galleries (see url below).

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
Click to expand...
If you can, 1Ds is your machine
 
Stuart Rider said:
Oh dear. You really don't have a clue, do you?

While they are both 4mp cameras there are several reasons why the
1D blows away an E10; noise, sensor size, AA filter strength, lens
quality. The 1D resolves 93% of the detail a D60 can with 6mp.
And before anyone whines, I've owned all 3.
Click to expand...
Resolve much more detail than a 4Mpixel consumer camera, but I don´t think that resolved 93% of the D60, there isn´t this diference.
Stuart Rider said:
Apart from the 1Ds, the 1D is the most advanced all round DSLR.
Period.
Matthew Cromer said:
Is it doesn't have any more pixels than your E10.

There should be some 8-10MP cameras coming available this spring in
the same price range as the 1D.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
Click to expand...
--
Cheers,

Stuart Rider.
Click to expand...
 
glowluzid said:
Matthew Cromer said:
It has scarcely any more resolution than her existing kit
Click to expand...
This statement is not true. I owned an E20 and got the 1D. I
compared both before selling the E20, and I can tell you without a
doubt the 1D is resolving and keeping far more detail than the 5mp
E20. Lenses as well as AA filter, processing and low noise all add
up to a significant advantage.
Click to expand...
OK, the Oly resolves 1100 lines and the 1D resolves 1300. A substantial improvement, but hardly a major step up.

Compare that to the 1Ds which resolves 2500 lines on the resolution chart. That increase will be eye-poppingly obvious.
glowluzid said:
glowluzid said:
Beth wants a camera she can use for many years
and make large prints with. She shoots a lot of architectural and
cityscape photos. She needs resolution.
Click to expand...
This is a good point. In her price range, that leaves the D60 or
the Fuji S2. Still a refurbed 1D @ $2500 would compete as well as
the d60/s2. I would not suggest the D100 to her.

She (and I) cannot afford a 1Ds. It would be perfect for her, but
is just too much. Perhaps the Kodak 14n would be a good, still
pricey, option?
Click to expand...
She wants to go with Canon. Also she is not in a huge hurry. She said she wants a camera for the next 7 years or more. If she waits and continues to save, she should be able to get the 1Ds in about 6 months to a year as her savings go up and the price for new and used gear goes down.

I think the Kodak would be a good choice, but she is committed to the EOS lens platform.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top