How come Canon is always behind Nikon?

I recently check the "Canon Rumours" site and it says Canon just had their patent right approved for their Large Back Illuminated Sensor (APS-C & FF).

I was like, "Hey, wait a minute...this back illuminated thing has been used all along in the Nikon...why only now for Canon??"

There are other things too which Canon seem to lag behind but catch up later, frm what i read...is this somesort of Canon culture or marketing trick or what??

...Canon has has many firsts and has done a few things that nikon hasn't even attempted.

OTH, it seem to me that canon is lagging in the last couple of years in mid range & high end dslr's.

I believe that canon was resting on their laurels when they possessed the cmos low light advantage. When nikon switched to cmos, canon lost that advantage. Yes, I do believe it had much to do with canon mtkg.

Anyways, you'll see a lot of discord in this post. If you'd like some more start a windows vs mac thread as well. It will always fill to 150 posts.

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

I recently check the "Canon Rumours" site and it says Canon just had their patent right approved for their Large Back Illuminated Sensor (APS-C & FF).

I was like, "Hey, wait a minute...this back illuminated thing has been used all along in the Nikon...why only now for Canon??"

There are other things too which Canon seem to lag behind but catch up later, frm what i read...is this somesort of Canon culture or marketing trick or what??

Click to expand...

--

There is simply too much beauty in the world to photograph it all, but I'm trying.

Hi, thanks for informing me on the past Canon cmos issue...i didnt know that.

No, i have no intention for trolling, nor creating a ruckus, nor hot debate here...that you have mistaken.

I had this doubt for quite awhile now and this is my first time posting it here..in hope to find out from other more knowledgable people at dpreview.

Thanks again anyway..

If Nikon was supporting the range and volumes of Canon
it might be a different story.
They both crawl compared to Sony or Samsung.
As it is, different company, different philosophy;
end of story.
Was there a point ?

--

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

I recently check the "Canon Rumours" site and it says Canon just had their patent right approved for their Large Back Illuminated Sensor (APS-C & FF).

I was like, "Hey, wait a minute...this back illuminated thing has been used all along in the Nikon...why only now for Canon??"

There are other things too which Canon seem to lag behind but catch up later, frm what i read...is this somesort of Canon culture or marketing trick or what??

Click to expand...

Big companies like canon and nikon are very poor innovators, most innovation over the last few years has come from smaller niche companies. Smaller companies like ricoh have been the first to deliver large zooms and wider angle lenses on P&S cameras, then there is the daring step to produce the 4:3 mirrorless systems from Olympus and panasonic.

These big companies don't want change because they are on top sales wise, any change to them is a threat.

Brian

Big dogs move slower.
--
I'm so bright, my father calls me son.

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos. . .
http://www.jpgmag.com/people/glenbarrington/photos

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

There are other things too which Canon seem to lag behind but catch up later, frm what i read...is this somesort of Canon culture or marketing trick or what??

Click to expand...

Canon is regularly in the top 5 in the U.S. for patents filed and sometimes #3. There are filing dates and publishing dates.

Also a patent doesn't mean it is a working device or process. A patent can simply be a sketch illustrating a method and that method might not even by technically possible at this time!

Only a few years ago, it was Nikon that seemed to be behind Canon.

I think the game is called leap-frog.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

• Rayna Butler

RedFox88 said:

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

There are other things too which Canon seem to lag behind but catch up later, frm what i read...is this somesort of Canon culture or marketing trick or what??

Click to expand...

Canon is regularly in the top 5 in the U.S. for patents filed and sometimes #3. There are filing dates and publishing dates.

Also a patent doesn't mean it is a working device or process. A patent can simply be a sketch illustrating a method and that method might not even by technically possible at this time!

Click to expand...

Or locking up technologies so no other company can use them without paying up sacks full of gold.

Brian

I'm pretty sure Nikon's backlit sensors are sourced from Sony. How come Nikon can't fab it's own first rate sensors?

Canon and Nikon each tend to offer certain advantages over the other, and which is 'best' depends a lot on the specific products you're comparing and where they are in the product lifecycle.
--

Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas of an image, or the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light. Bokeh is not the same as depth of field (DOF).

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

I recently check the "Canon Rumours" site and it says Canon just had their patent right approved for their Large Back Illuminated Sensor (APS-C & FF).

I was like, "Hey, wait a minute...this back illuminated thing has been used all along in the Nikon...why only now for Canon??"

There are other things too which Canon seem to lag behind but catch up later, frm what i read...is this somesort of Canon culture or marketing trick or what??

Click to expand...

As the long time leader in camera sales, Canon has grown complacent. I was really surprised to see Nikon introduce a cutting edge innovative mirrorless camera system before Canon did. All Canon has in response to the Nikon System 1 cameras is a staid fixed lens up-sized P&S camera, they call the G1-X. Pitiful.

Best regards,
Jon

Thanks everyone, for sharing some really enlightening info on this subject...some of which i've never even thought of, which after considering thoroughly, i find to be true indeed.

As a 550D user, i was a bit disappointed when i realize there was such a thing called tilt screen...i didnt at the point of purchase...anyway, there were also a couple of things i discovered later that Canon seem not to bother to include in their cameras, well, until only recently i think...that did left me somewhat fuming over their "complacent" attitude towards customers.

How come Dell/HP etc don't make CPUs? How many HDTV LCD manufacturers are there?(less than one hand)

Do you realize that Dell/HP/Apple don't even manufacture the equipement that bears their name, they outsource it all.

Some of the high end sensors that Nikon uses are designed by Nikon and manufactured by Sony. Some of the lower end sensors are shared by both. Many users claim that Nikon seems to be able to get the most out of those sensors.

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

I recently check the "Canon Rumours" site and it says Canon just had their patent right approved for their Large Back Illuminated Sensor (APS-C & FF).

I was like, "Hey, wait a minute...this back illuminated thing has been used all along in the Nikon...why only now for Canon??"

Click to expand...

Which Nikon DSLR (i.e., large APS-C or FF sensor) uses back illumination?

Answer: zip, zilch, nada

Sony offers SMALL back-illuminated sensors, not large ones.

--
student4ever

Back around 2000, Canon introduced the original 1D camera. For about three years Nikon lagged way, WAY behind--I know several lifetime Nikon pros who sold their systems just so they could use the 1D system.

But I agree, Canon appears to have lost its lead. It appears all improvements are incremental these days.

brianj said:

Big companies like canon and nikon are very poor innovators, most innovation over the last few years has come from smaller niche companies.

Click to expand...

I see it in a different way. Companies that managed to really capture crucial sectors of the market concentrate on maintaining those sectors rather than rushing to plug holes elsewhere. They still invest heavily in R&D, but mostly for the benefit of their market-dominating products. An innovation from Canon is more likely to first show up in a Canon DSLR.

Those niche companies don't exactly innovate. They are playing with sensor/body/lens sizes trying to find a size/quality compromise that'll get some traction in the market, poking at the holes left by the giants. There might be an interesting tidbit here and there, but genuinely new tech? Can't say I see it. One actually interesting (IMO) development - on-sensor PDAF - came from Nikon.

Canon also has the benefit of first hand knowledge of how their products sell. If their research shows that a lot of people buy an 18-55 Rebel kit and never get another lens, a fixed-lens camera that delivers Rebel kit functionality in a more compact package will be a killer.

And to OP: You did not know about 'tilt screens' when you got your 550D? Those screens existed for 10+ years in various cameras and camcorders. A little research was all that was needed. And what other features Canon did not 'bother to include'? Could it be those features are in 60D, 7D, 5D, 1D? Surely you don't expect a $600 T2i to offer same features as a $1500 7D?

hotdog321 said:

Back around 2000, Canon introduced the original 1D camera. For about three years Nikon lagged way, WAY behind--I know several lifetime Nikon pros who sold their systems just so they could use the 1D system.

Click to expand...

Oh i see...that's new to me, as i just started taking photography seriously last year. Thanks..

hotdog321 said:

But I agree, Canon appears to have lost its lead. It appears all improvements are incremental these days.

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Yeah, lol...that's what i think too...X-P

On another note, Canon seem to be very good at advertising all their cameras and lenses...i mean, just taking a ride across my city, i'm overwhelemed by so many Canon adverts all around me...from billboards to camera shop signage, the word "Canon" and "Delighting you always" are simply intoxicating!...and the font size is so BIG too!

And when i occasionally switch on the telly to watch a documentary on discovery, nat geo, or history channel...my goodness, i'm literally forced to watch Canon adverts whenever there's a commercial break..yes, even up to 3 TIMES per break!! Yikes! I can even recall the whole sequence of whatever product they've promoted in my sleep, so to speak...

photo nuts said:

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

I recently check the "Canon Rumours" site and it says Canon just had their patent right approved for their Large Back Illuminated Sensor (APS-C & FF).

I was like, "Hey, wait a minute...this back illuminated thing has been used all along in the Nikon...why only now for Canon??"

Click to expand...

Which Nikon DSLR (i.e., large APS-C or FF sensor) uses back illumination?

Answer: zip, zilch, nada

Sony offers SMALL back-illuminated sensors, not large ones.

Click to expand...

Er, pardon my ignorance (...well i'm just learning, that is ), i thought APS-C is already considered a large sensor...ie. a crop of the full frame and not a compact camera sensor?? Maybe i'm wrong...i dunno..i'll have to read up some more X-P

I don't want to overstate the case. The differences between the two systems is minor and largely a matter of ergonomics. Both systems are superb and pros are happy using either.