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1D or wait til PMA?

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Beth

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Beth wrote:

I have been an Oly E10 shooter for a year and a half now. Though it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing shots to poor focusing in low light (partly my problem possibly). I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise. This camera CAN produce a images almost as nice as a D30's with lots of work! I'm tired of losing shots as the buffer clears after 4 shots! I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at least 13x19!

So, now what? Well, I thought I'd wait til after PMA to see what's new. Then I read a 1D review. Wow! sounds like a super camera that would solve all the problems I cataloged above. (I would think of the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus problems.)

I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is, can I carry around the extra weight? Will I need to take most of my photos from a tripod? I'm told that a big camera like this is almost impossible to handhold. Is that true? I'm used to taking my camera EVERYWHERE with me and around my neck most of the time. Will I develop wrestler's neck after a few weeks with a 1D? How large will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos? This is important and the main impetus for the upgrade. I need to be able to produce large prints from time to time. I like the fact that this is a tank of a camera with seals to protect from moisture too.

Where might I pick up a refurb? Anyone here dealt with refurbished cameras? I'm still not sure it's the camera for me, but expect that your answers will help me decide.

If you'd like to see my typical shooting style, please feel free to visit my galleries (see url below).

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Beth,

first let me say thanks for the invite to look at your gallery. I took one look at the shot of the chess set at the museum. It took my breath away. Marvelous.

I would say get the 1D and experience it in all its wonderfulness and then use it to be your reference for the next step. That is, wait till you find something better. It might be a long wait.

As for how heavy it is, I was concerned about that too. After visiiting my local camera shop several times, once a week, over a period of two months, and spending at least 20 minutes playing with the 1D each time, I noticed something -- each time I held it, it seemed smaller and lighter. So, my guess is you too can become accumstomed to its weight. I think a nice heavy like the 1D actually hand holds better than a light camera. It takes more twitching to move such a large mass.

By the way, the thing that most impressed me about the 1D is its responsiveness. I shoot the D30, and the 1D gets off a shot so quickly (by comparison) it's uncanny. I thought the D30 was adequate until I started playing with the 1D. I cannot tell you how many times I have filled the D30's buffer and THEN wanted to shoot once more because what I saw in the viewfinder was that fleeting moment -- and all I was able to do was just watch because the D30 was busy. When I was playing with the 1D, I couldn't seem to fill the buffer. It's definitely a good step up from what you've got (and from what I've got).

And I'm curious to see what your pics will look like with it.

I hope this helps.

Bob
 
Thanks for the feedback, Robert! Yes, it helps. I'm hoping that the next camera will 'hold me' for a very good, long time! I won't be upgrading unless I can make money with what comes next, but it sounds like this one might be the step that lasts for more than a year! Funny how what feels like a 'forever love' turns to something else very quickly!

I will keep eyes peeled for a refurb and if I get lucky, MAY not wait for PMA. Getting lucky will be the key.
Beth
Robert Burkhalter said:
Beth,
first let me say thanks for the invite to look at your gallery. I
took one look at the shot of the chess set at the museum. It took
my breath away. Marvelous.

I would say get the 1D and experience it in all its wonderfulness
and then use it to be your reference for the next step. That is,
wait till you find something better. It might be a long wait.

As for how heavy it is, I was concerned about that too. After
visiiting my local camera shop several times, once a week, over a
period of two months, and spending at least 20 minutes playing with
the 1D each time, I noticed something -- each time I held it, it
seemed smaller and lighter. So, my guess is you too can become
accumstomed to its weight. I think a nice heavy like the 1D
actually hand holds better than a light camera. It takes more
twitching to move such a large mass.

By the way, the thing that most impressed me about the 1D is its
responsiveness. I shoot the D30, and the 1D gets off a shot so
quickly (by comparison) it's uncanny. I thought the D30 was
adequate until I started playing with the 1D. I cannot tell you
how many times I have filled the D30's buffer and THEN wanted to
shoot once more because what I saw in the viewfinder was that
fleeting moment -- and all I was able to do was just watch because
the D30 was busy. When I was playing with the 1D, I couldn't seem
to fill the buffer. It's definitely a good step up from what
you've got (and from what I've got).

And I'm curious to see what your pics will look like with it.

I hope this helps.

Bob
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Hi Beth. As a former E10 owner I understand your frustrations. I sold it and bought my D60 in June and have never looked back. The D60 and 3 lenses was a big stretch for my wallet so an 1D was not under consideration.

Perhaps if you are in an area where you can rent a 1D with a decent lens for a week or weekend, it might help you know if the camera is what you need or want. I think a heavier camera is actually easier to hold steady.

Good luck with your decision. Remember that the investment in lenses is often more than the cost of the camera, but a good lense will always be usuable on the next camera body upgrade.
Beth said:
Beth wrote:

I have been an Oly E10 shooter for a year and a half now. Though
it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I
am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing
shots to poor focusing in low light (partly my problem possibly).
I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often
used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise. This
camera CAN produce a images almost as nice as a D30's with lots of
work! I'm tired of losing shots as the buffer clears after 4 shots!
I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at
least 13x19!

So, now what? Well, I thought I'd wait til after PMA to see what's
new. Then I read a 1D review. Wow! sounds like a super camera that
would solve all the problems I cataloged above. (I would think of
the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus
problems.)

I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is,
can I carry around the extra weight? Will I need to take most of my
photos from a tripod? I'm told that a big camera like this is
almost impossible to handhold. Is that true? I'm used to taking my
camera EVERYWHERE with me and around my neck most of the time. Will
I develop wrestler's neck after a few weeks with a 1D? How large
will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos?
This is important and the main impetus for the upgrade. I need to
be able to produce large prints from time to time. I like the fact
that this is a tank of a camera with seals to protect from moisture
too.

Where might I pick up a refurb? Anyone here dealt with refurbished
cameras? I'm still not sure it's the camera for me, but expect that
your answers will help me decide.

If you'd like to see my typical shooting style, please feel free to
visit my galleries (see url below).

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
Click to expand...
--
Leo R
 
I shoot D30. The low light focusing problems you speak of do not occur if you have great low light glass and use center point focus. To cover the range of glass you are going to need $1500 - $2000. Stay with canon glass if you can -- The new 24 - 70 f2.8 alone is $1400. Then the 70 -200 f2.8 sigma is $590 at Delta. If you had these two lenses, you'd have pro glass for event photography.

Ok, now the 1D has excellent focus and color, but the main thing is it is an action cam with high fps and buffer. It is the best for Sports shooters.

If you are mostly a portraiture photographer, then the D60 is ok.

But....PMA will likely announce a new cam for approx the same money or less with better autofocus and better other stuff .. to continue to compete, they'll have too -- and the 1D will then continue to drop in price ...some were getting Refurbs for $2700

So...by even suggesting if you should wait....you'll save big money by waiting...and either DSLR you buy...perhaps even a new model ....perhaps you'll save enough in two months of waiting...to buy one of those two pro lenses

MAC
Beth said:
Beth wrote:

I have been an Oly E10 shooter for a year and a half now. Though
it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I
am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing
shots to poor focusing in low light (partly my problem possibly).
I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often
used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise. This
camera CAN produce a images almost as nice as a D30's with lots of
work! I'm tired of losing shots as the buffer clears after 4 shots!
I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at
least 13x19!

So, now what? Well, I thought I'd wait til after PMA to see what's
new. Then I read a 1D review. Wow! sounds like a super camera that
would solve all the problems I cataloged above. (I would think of
the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus
problems.)

I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is,
can I carry around the extra weight? Will I need to take most of my
photos from a tripod? I'm told that a big camera like this is
almost impossible to handhold. Is that true? I'm used to taking my
camera EVERYWHERE with me and around my neck most of the time. Will
I develop wrestler's neck after a few weeks with a 1D? How large
will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos?
This is important and the main impetus for the upgrade. I need to
be able to produce large prints from time to time. I like the fact
that this is a tank of a camera with seals to protect from moisture
too.

Where might I pick up a refurb? Anyone here dealt with refurbished
cameras? I'm still not sure it's the camera for me, but expect that
your answers will help me decide.

If you'd like to see my typical shooting style, please feel free to
visit my galleries (see url below).

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
Click to expand...
--
MAC
http://www.digi-pictures.com
 
I'm kind of in the same boat. I have a D30 and I want the 1D very badly. However, I can only come out ahead if I wait. I'll get to see what's coming next and at the same time the 1D will drop in price.
 
I think everyone is expecting some sort of announcement at PMA in February. If you can go without another two months, then I'd wait. If you can't go without that long, then I'd go for one of the $2500-3000 refurbed 1D's that are available. No way would I pay $4500 for a 1D right now.

Good luck!
--
JCDoss
D30/BiG-ED
17-35L, 28-135IS, 50/1.4
 
Thanks Leo,

I know what you say about lenses, is true. That's why I've decided that it needs to be a Canon. I don't have bottomless pockets either, but am willing to stretch in order to get a camera that will do what I need and keep me happy for a Looooonnnnngggg time! Fingers and toes crossed!
BEth
Leo Reinhard said:
Beth said:
Beth wrote:

I have been an Oly E10 shooter for a year and a half now. Though
it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I
am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing
shots to poor focusing in low light (partly my problem possibly).
I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often
used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise. This
camera CAN produce a images almost as nice as a D30's with lots of
work! I'm tired of losing shots as the buffer clears after 4 shots!
I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at
least 13x19!

So, now what? Well, I thought I'd wait til after PMA to see what's
new. Then I read a 1D review. Wow! sounds like a super camera that
would solve all the problems I cataloged above. (I would think of
the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus
problems.)

I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is,
can I carry around the extra weight? Will I need to take most of my
photos from a tripod? I'm told that a big camera like this is
almost impossible to handhold. Is that true? I'm used to taking my
camera EVERYWHERE with me and around my neck most of the time. Will
I develop wrestler's neck after a few weeks with a 1D? How large
will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos?
This is important and the main impetus for the upgrade. I need to
be able to produce large prints from time to time. I like the fact
that this is a tank of a camera with seals to protect from moisture
too.

Where might I pick up a refurb? Anyone here dealt with refurbished
cameras? I'm still not sure it's the camera for me, but expect that
your answers will help me decide.

If you'd like to see my typical shooting style, please feel free to
visit my galleries (see url below).

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
Click to expand...
--
Leo R
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Thanks Mac, you make it sound so GOOD! I hope you're correct. I read a thread yesterday suggesting that it would be another year before Canon comes out with a D-upgrade. Who knows...it surely is FUN!
Beth
MAC said:
Ok, now the 1D has excellent focus and color, but the main thing is
it is an action cam with high fps and buffer. It is the best for
Sports shooters.

If you are mostly a portraiture photographer, then the D60 is ok.

But....PMA will likely announce a new cam for approx the same money
or less with better autofocus and better other stuff .. to continue
to compete, they'll have too -- and the 1D will then continue to
drop in price ...some were getting Refurbs for $2700

So...by even suggesting if you should wait....you'll save big money
by waiting...and either DSLR you buy...perhaps even a new model
....perhaps you'll save enough in two months of waiting...to buy
one of those two pro lenses

MAC
Beth said:
Beth wrote:

I have been an Oly E10 shooter for a year and a half now. Though
it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I
am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing
shots to poor focusing in low light (partly my problem possibly).
I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often
used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise. This
camera CAN produce a images almost as nice as a D30's with lots of
work! I'm tired of losing shots as the buffer clears after 4 shots!
I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at
least 13x19!

So, now what? Well, I thought I'd wait til after PMA to see what's
new. Then I read a 1D review. Wow! sounds like a super camera that
would solve all the problems I cataloged above. (I would think of
the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus
problems.)

I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is,
can I carry around the extra weight? Will I need to take most of my
photos from a tripod? I'm told that a big camera like this is
almost impossible to handhold. Is that true? I'm used to taking my
camera EVERYWHERE with me and around my neck most of the time. Will
I develop wrestler's neck after a few weeks with a 1D? How large
will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos?
This is important and the main impetus for the upgrade. I need to
be able to produce large prints from time to time. I like the fact
that this is a tank of a camera with seals to protect from moisture
too.

Where might I pick up a refurb? Anyone here dealt with refurbished
cameras? I'm still not sure it's the camera for me, but expect that
your answers will help me decide.

If you'd like to see my typical shooting style, please feel free to
visit my galleries (see url below).

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
Click to expand...
--
MAC
http://www.digi-pictures.com
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Beth wrote:

I still have and enjoy the E10, so as long as the shutter holds up, I'm in no rush. I can afford to wait.

Beth
JCDoss said:
I think everyone is expecting some sort of announcement at PMA in
February. If you can go without another two months, then I'd wait.
If you can't go without that long, then I'd go for one of the
$2500-3000 refurbed 1D's that are available. No way would I pay
$4500 for a 1D right now.

Good luck!
--
JCDoss
D30/BiG-ED
17-35L, 28-135IS, 50/1.4
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
Beth with your eye, what ever camera you choose you will do fine. I like the 1d and 1Ds but go with you can afford. The D60 is a great camera for image quality if the others are out of reach.
Beth said:
Beth wrote:

I have been an Oly E10 shooter for a year and a half now. Though
it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I
am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing
shots to poor focusing in low light (partly my problem possibly).
I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often
used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise. This
camera CAN produce a images almost as nice as a D30's with lots of
work! I'm tired of losing shots as the buffer clears after 4 shots!
I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at
least 13x19!

So, now what? Well, I thought I'd wait til after PMA to see what's
new. Then I read a 1D review. Wow! sounds like a super camera that
would solve all the problems I cataloged above. (I would think of
the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus
problems.)

I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is,
can I carry around the extra weight? Will I need to take most of my
photos from a tripod? I'm told that a big camera like this is
almost impossible to handhold. Is that true? I'm used to taking my
camera EVERYWHERE with me and around my neck most of the time. Will
I develop wrestler's neck after a few weeks with a 1D? How large
will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos?
This is important and the main impetus for the upgrade. I need to
be able to produce large prints from time to time. I like the fact
that this is a tank of a camera with seals to protect from moisture
too.

Where might I pick up a refurb? Anyone here dealt with refurbished
cameras? I'm still not sure it's the camera for me, but expect that
your answers will help me decide.

If you'd like to see my typical shooting style, please feel free to
visit my galleries (see url below).

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the kind comments, David!

The longer I wait, the larger the old piggy bank grows. (There ARE advantages to being a fickle woman!) I'm almost in reach of a refub 1D, so give me a couple more months and a new something-or-other may be in reach at PMA????!!! One can olny hope!

I have enlisted my brother in keeping me cool so that I don't jump on something I'll regret. (He's a D30 owner and hangs out here....not sure what handle he goes by...Ed-something. He's in shopping mode too. What fun!!)

Thanks to EVERYBODY for all the thoughts and advice. Keep it coming! I'll need your cool heads to keep me focused! (Did you like that little pun?)
Beth
Davidlw said:
Beth said:
Beth wrote:

I have been an Oly E10 shooter for a year and a half now. Though
it's a fine camera for the dollars, I think I have outgrown it. I
am tired of missing shots as it powers up. I'm tired of losing
shots to poor focusing in low light (partly my problem possibly).
I'm tired of limited usable ISO (ISO 80 is the best and most often
used/ISO 160 in a pinch). I'm tired of struggling with noise. This
camera CAN produce a images almost as nice as a D30's with lots of
work! I'm tired of losing shots as the buffer clears after 4 shots!
I'd like to be able to enlarge some of my photos to 20x30--well, at
least 13x19!

So, now what? Well, I thought I'd wait til after PMA to see what's
new. Then I read a 1D review. Wow! sounds like a super camera that
would solve all the problems I cataloged above. (I would think of
the D60, but I understand it suffers from similar low light focus
problems.)

I know that the 1D can do everything I need, but the question is,
can I carry around the extra weight? Will I need to take most of my
photos from a tripod? I'm told that a big camera like this is
almost impossible to handhold. Is that true? I'm used to taking my
camera EVERYWHERE with me and around my neck most of the time. Will
I develop wrestler's neck after a few weeks with a 1D? How large
will I comfortably be able to enlarge well-exposed, sharp photos?
This is important and the main impetus for the upgrade. I need to
be able to produce large prints from time to time. I like the fact
that this is a tank of a camera with seals to protect from moisture
too.

Where might I pick up a refurb? Anyone here dealt with refurbished
cameras? I'm still not sure it's the camera for me, but expect that
your answers will help me decide.

If you'd like to see my typical shooting style, please feel free to
visit my galleries (see url below).

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
I had to chuckle a little when you asked if it was hard to hand-hold a heavy camera like the 1D. To me it isn't at all... but then I recalled my wife telling me she'd have hard time holding it steady enough to take photo. Her last "heavy" camera was a Nikon FE with a power drive. The EOS-1D is substancially heavier.

As 35mm cameras go, it IS a monster. It's not a lot different than any other EOS-1 with a booster drive/grip on it, but it is a whole lot different than an Oly-10.

I showed my wife the PROPER way to hold the camera, and I don't think she'd have any problems with it, and I doubt you would either. But with a zoom lens on it, it could be something you'd get tired of carrying around all day.

That said, if you find a refurbished 1D for under $3,000, I don't think you could go far wrong with it. It's a marvelous camera.

The D60 is very nice too. I have both, and the images from the D60 can be every bit as good as those from the 1D -- with post processing. (The 1D has more controls for getting the image closer to "right" in the camera, such as color temp control, saturation control, etc.)

And something else you might consider is a used D30. I see them selling for $1,000, and that's something that would give you more of what you're looking for; you could start building your lens and flash arsenal; and you could get used to shooting with a full-system dSLR while you wait for that "just right" dSLR.
 
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