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m4/3 on budget

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I was thinking the same. The E-PL2 has a 4:3 460k display, a mode dial and a built-in flash plus a grip and I think I prefer the older-style menus (I can read and don't need colorful graphics in my menus). Unfortunately, Cameta is out of stock on the E-PL2 factory demo units (they only have the older and less desirable E-P2 at that price).

I have to wonder though - how big of a difference does 120Hz AF sampling make on the E-PM1 ? If the difference is noticeable, it might be worth losing the mode dial, grip, and flash plus having the slightly awkward 16:9 460k display. I saw that poster "Jonathan F/2" on the mu-43 forums felt that the AF speed of his E-PM1 is significantly faster than with his E-PL2 which he's actually now selling.

The E-PM1 is amazingly tiny but, without a grip, maybe too small for my tastes. The Kleptography.com grip might be nice for $35 + shipping or the cheaper Flipbac G2 grip for only $10 + $3 shipping.

Not sure which direction to take - features or faster AF?
jeffmo2 said:
Thinking again that EPL-2 may be the best overall compromise. Unfortunately there's no place to really look and try it out anymore. I Found a factory demo with 1 year store warranty for $369, or used no warranty for a little less.
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jeffmo2 said:
Hi All,

I'm currently using a Canon Rebel XS which was a big upgrade from a P+S in terms of image quality and speed. When I bought it 2 years ago I had considered the m4/3 cameras but most were way too expensive. I am now reconsidering them since, frankly, the dSLR is just too bulky and ends up being left home most of the time, especially given that it doesn't take video and my P+S does.

Most of my shooting is of my 2 1/2 year old who doesn't tend to sit still for very long. I do shoot indoors but usually with a flash. Have a Canon F1.8 50mm lens which I sometimes use for low light or DOF effects. Sometimes use manual settings but probably 80% of the time I'm in automatic mode with the kit lens.

Thinking of selling the Canon and upgrading without too much cash outlay so budget is about $450 max. Will probably use kit lens for awhile before adding maybe a prime fixed focal length lens to it. Considering the following:

1) Olympus PEN EPL-1: I really wanted to like this camera 2 years ago but reviews described terrible autofocus performance. Since then, a firmware update supposedly improved things but I was never able to try it as every store's demo had the old firmware. Costco currently has it for $379 including a second zoom lens- wow. Don't really need the extra lens but would be a nice bonus. Reviews describe great pictures, including in low light and the kit lens protrudes less than others.

2) Panasonic DMC-GF2: This camera seems to have much better autofocus performance than the EPL-1 but I see complaints about jpeg picture quality, especially in low light/high ISO. Better movie mode (does 1080i and AVCHD). Currently $345 at Amazon.

3) Olympus PEN EPL-2: Has improved autofocus performance due to a new version of the kit lens, but not as good as the Panasoinic. Has buttons and dials which I prefer over the all-buttons approach or touchscreen. Over $500 at Amazon (ouch).

I will say that I rarely will focus and shoot at once, will usually press the shutter halfway to focus, wait for my moment, and then snap. From that perspective, slow autofocus may not matter that much. I imagine the Panasonic's low light issues could be remedied with a bright prime lens. Maybe the EPL-2 is the best overall compromise?

Would appreciate any thoughts, especially if I am overlooking other models. Thanks!
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I own, GF1, E-PL1 and Nex 3, Nex 3 is a run-out model, and available at a good price. I suggest you look at NEX 3 if you are on a budget if not look at Nex 5n. The features it has which none of the m4/3 have are:

1. at least 1-2 stops better than m4/3 in low light
2. peak focusing for legacy lens
3. in camera processing of HDR feature
4. in camera processing of panoramic feature

the kit lens 18-55mm and 16mm are as good as you can get from m4/3 and more lenses coming this year.

I consider Nex 3 a better all round camera to GF1 and E-Pl1.
 
ttan98 said:
I suggest you look at NEX 3 if you are on a budget if not look at Nex 5n...the kit lens 18-55mm and 16mm are as good as you can get from m4/3 and more lenses coming this year.

I consider Nex 3 a better all round camera to GF1 and E-Pl1.
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I did a in-store demo of a NEX-C3 last night and was frustrated with the menu system (make any one change and I was back in shooting mode needing to go back into the menu to make my next change). The quality of the SEL18-55 seemed a little suspect to me (barrel wobble) and the reputation of the SEL16 f/2.8 is underwhelming at best. Also the NEX-C3/5N don't have the ability to RC remote flash units which seems inexcusable to me in the absence of a hotshoe. Overall, I'm still focused on a E-PM1 with the excellent Pany 20/1.7 and Oly 45/1.8 primes as my best bet in a new CSC.

Still, you've got three CSC cameras in two lens mounts while I have none so my ignorant opinion doesn't count for much. Just saying though...
 
No it doesn't automatically pop up if you have the flash on auto. Having it down in effect turns it off (based on super quick test I just did).

btw, it's mid morning here, raining, very gloomy indoors, definitely low light - yet I had to stick the Pen Mini down behind a speaker on a bookshelf to find somewhere dark enough for the auto flash to decide it should go off.
 
Complete guess on my part, but Olympus could do something very nice with the XZ-2. There should be some new cameras announced around 08 Feb, so if you can wait for that, might be worth a look.

XZ-2 would be fixed lens, but it should be a very nice fixed lens. And who knows, maybe they will give us a nice surprise with the sensor too, like Cannon with the G1X. An XZ-2 with a 4/3 sensor and a bright, compact zoom lens could be very nice camera.

For me, the main downside to the XZ-1 is the average video mode.

(Mine was wiped out by a freak wave while on some rocks. I loved that Olympus camera so much I upgraded to a Pen Mini, rather than get another XZ-1.)
 
tedolf said:
Wellington100 said:
tedolf said:
LincolnB said:
I hadn't heard too much about that camera. The kit price looks pretty good - $400 with teh 20-50mm lens on Amazon. Any extra lenses will blow the OP's budget though.
Wellington100 said:
APS-C size sensor, cheap kits, great IQ and cheap pancake lenses, 20-50 kit lens is one of the best in the business
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the Samsung NX100 is a great value, and the Samsung lenses are pretty good too.

Unfortunately, like NEX 3/5 it is a fatally flawed camera. The lens registration distance is too long by just one RCH to allow adaptation of any rangefinder lenses.

Any.
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The flip side of that is that using my Nikon lenses (or any other DSLR lenses) with this camera is a pleasure because the adaptor is so much smaller than on m4/3

Lets face it, one is hardly going to buy this camera to use it with Leica lenses so "fatally flawed" for that reason, I am not so sure.
tedolf said:
How could they be so stupid!
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"stupid" - for not designing a budget camera with Leica in mind???
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that you have blasphemed?
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Let there be light - regardless of the badge on the lens
tedolf said:
tedolf said:
tedolf said:
Also, no microlenses like NEX 5n to fix corner sharpness issues.

Again-fatally flawed.
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Corner sharpness is not such an issue with this camera in my experience, in no small part because the lens registration distance is further than it is with other mirrorless cameras. So much for "fatal flaws" heh heh heh.
tedolf said:
Too bad, otherwise a nice camera.
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Indeed, its a stunning camera once you take into consideration its IQ vs its price point, in fact its the bargain of the year.
tedolf said:
TEdolph
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--
S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1
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Tedolph
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S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1
 
hello world said:
3. Panasonic's approach to IS (in lens) is better than Olympus, but the downside is that not all lenses have IS build in.
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What a strange statement! How can Panasonic's approach be better than Olympus', considering Olympus cameras have something Panasonic cameras lack?

With Olympus' approach, you get the better part of both worlds, since you can always get a Panasonic lens and choose whether you you want to use body based image stabilization or lens based image stabilization! With a Panasonic camera, you are stuck with lens based image stabilization, or no stabilization at all with many lenses which are not equipped with IS, including Panasonic's own.

Cheers!

Abbazz
--
The 6x9 Photography Online Resource: http://artbig.com/

 
Birding on a budget. I have a Panasoniv G2 i bought from B&H and I use it with panasonic 100-300mm lens. I also bought the Vivitar 500mm mirrored lens. The 300mm lens is a little short for birding and the 500mm (with no auto focus) is not easy to use. Also I use some Photoshop in most all the Vivitar images. Like you said on a buget.
 
How important is an autofocus lamp? It's something that's lacking on several Olympus models.
 
So after doing a ton of research, I bought both a Panasonic GF3 and Olympus EPL-2 with the intention of returning (at least) one of them. Also bought an adapter so I could play around with my Canon 50mm f1.8 lens. Here's what i found:

EPL-2: The first thing I did was update the camera and lens firmware.
  • focus lag noticeable but tolerable, however
  • in low light, particularly at the longer focal lengths the camera will keep hunting and sometimes never lock a focus. This is unfortunate and is likely to be a dealbreaker for me. An AF assist lamp or even flash strobe like my Canon would probably help a lot.
GF3:
  • lens is so large it looks ridiculous on the tiny body, but I'm getting used to it
  • focus is fast and haven't run into any of the issues above
  • IQ in general seems as good as EPL-2 or Canon XS
  • like the touchscreen interface although still have a slight preference to all the dials on a dSLR
Here are my concerns:

1) I haven't really achieved much in terms of increased portability

2)I keep reading that the GF3 has relatively poor low light performance and is not really usable past ISO 800. I did take some pics at ISO 1600, and while not terrible I can see what they mean.

I know that both of these concerns would be helped by dropping a few hundred more on the Panasonic 20 mm f1.7. Was just expecting a better "out of the box" experience with the kit lenses.

Will likely return the EPL-2 (it was the last demo from Cameta if anyone wants it). Debating at this point whether to keep the GF3, try the EPM1 or give up and go back to Canon. For the same $$ I could upgrade my Canon body to add video and better low light capabilities than either of these.

Would appreciate any opinions!
 
in the center of the screen, place the focus box on your kid's face, focus and recompose. Don't let the camera choose the focus point for you, except for face detection which acutally works pretty well.

It will always achieve focus quickly in any light you can see in and you can keep the E-pl2 with its usable ISO 1600 speed and IBIS for legacy lenses.

TEdolph
 
jeffmo2 said:
EPL-2: The first thing I did was update the camera and lens firmware.
  • focus lag noticeable but tolerable, however
  • in low light, particularly at the longer focal lengths the camera will keep hunting and sometimes never lock a focus. This is unfortunate and is likely to be a dealbreaker for me. An AF assist lamp or even flash strobe like my Canon would probably help a lot.
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I have an E-PM1 and it does the same thing in very low light, and you can definitely notice the difference when you zoom from f/3.5 at the wide end to f/5.6 at the long end of the kit lens. However, the E-PM1 does have an AF illuminator LED light, which sometimes helps.

But I think you are expecting too much. No consumer-level DSLR with a kit lens will do any better at equivalent light levels. The answer is to get a faster lens for extreme low-light photography. One of the primes, or the new Panasonic f/2.8 X zoom.
 
Thanks. Will give it another chance and keep playing with it, but I don't think my expectations are out of whack. The comparisons I'm making are to a consumer level (entry level!) dSLR (Canon Rebel XS) and m4/3 (Panasonic GF3) both with kit lens. And they both focus way faster and never fail to focus.
sigala1 said:
But I think you are expecting too much. No consumer-level DSLR with a kit lens will > do any better at equivalent light levels. The answer is to get a faster lens for > extreme low-light photography. One of the primes, or the new Panasonic f/2.8 X > zoom.
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