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7D image quality better than a 5DmkII

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Use a sturdy tripod.
Use a cable release.
Use mirror lockup.
Use the proper aperture.
Use the proper shutter speed.
Focus properly.
Shoot in best light.
Use good lenses.
Clean your filters.
Clean your sensor.
Clean your lens.
Use a lens shade.
Expose properly.
Sharpen properly (for the dedicated output).
Understand and use color management.

And a dozen other, seemingly obvious, details. Following such technique will be far more beneficial than choosing between those two excellent camera bodies.

Tutorials can be found in abundance on the web. Not all are correct. Not all will pertain to your images. My favorite tutorials are available at luminous-landscape. I'm more comfortable with video tutorials than books. Video first, then books - that works for me.
--
Mike
http://web.me.com/mikebaginy/Mikes-view/Welcome.html
 
Op, I went back in your posts and saw a 60d? What was wrong with the 60d?

The 7d sensor is similar to 60d sensor is similar to T3i sensor is similar to T2i sensor

Depending on what you shoot, let's say scapes, a T2i for $500 can give you what a 7d can give you for an $850 savings to put into better glass depending on what you have to spend

What most people miss -- is that they should choose what they want to creatively shoot and then learn and know enough about glass first and what they can afford before they buy a body--which should be the second decision - and then go with the best glass they can afford.

Otherwise they'll end up with a table of dead bodies, their wife calling a garbage truck to haul them a way, they'll go back to their basement with the spiders, and they might even end up in a ditch because they have no glass - ROFL. Sorry, I couldn't resist the Direct TV ad on that one!

Bodies come and go. Glass ishould be bought as your investment.

Also, you are traveling. Do you have insurance? How much you want to carry? When I travel, I only carry what will fit into my lowepro 200AW and I carry it all the time. Also I have photographers insurance so tere is no problem carrying my L glass and having it stolen

What some also miss, is that when the lights go down, the 7d, 60d, T2i, T3i sensor loses its sharpness at iso 1600 and above so resolution no longer means squat if you sharpen the same images to 5dc/5dii levels. The digital picture site shows this in their color blocks with smushy text for these sensors at iso1600 and above

So it is humorous to me that these 7d forum hoppers are arguing over a $1350 brand new 7d when many of their shots could be taken with a $500 new T2i. And it is interesting that their 7d's have now deprecietated to $1000 and yet my 5dc has held its $1000 value for two years ;) BTW -- my 5dc has the sharpness at iso 1600 and iso3200 that the crop sensors do not have as shown by the digital picture site. So - resolution isn't all it is cracked up to be --it also depends if that resolution has been squashed for sharpness in poor light or not.

So, they are arguing over rather inexpensive pro-sumer sensors that will soon change.

Heck - give Sony a look.

If you have to ask which one, and make mis-statements in your post --and maybe owned a 60d, then you are not ready to purchase anything yet

Do your research for what you want to shoot -and glass will rule over body if you know what glass can do. Again, you want your glass to last and not that dump truck pulling up to your back door to empty your table of dead bodies ;)

Things are changing so I'm not even ready to buy my travel gear yet -but I have a nice 500HS that goes almost everywhere. I want my ipad3 to do lightroom ;)

How many large prints do these people actually sell? And how many walls do they have? And do you want to be spending $350 + everytime you matte and frame large photos when the prediction is that we'll have large digital screens for us pixel peepers on our walls in a few years;)

Photography is Ubiquitous these days --get use to it--and stop argueing over $500 - $1000 consumer reachable sesnor tools--get better glass and light and skills --and go out and shoot. ;)
 
oysso said:
7D has higheresolution if you have to crop much due to reach problem using tele lenses.
Click to expand...
True, that's the reason I brought 60D instead of 5D to a zoo. But people who bought 5D is not for sports/wildlife purposes but for landscape and portrait where FF shows its advantages clearly - WA, large sensor when you can fit the subject into the frame w/o having to crop, choice of lenses...5D2 and 7D (if you also own) complement rather compete each other for different purposes.

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
 
I would like to add that choice of printer and paper yield larger IQ differences then one can see between these two sensors.
mbaginy said:
Use a sturdy tripod.
Use a cable release.
Use mirror lockup.
Use the proper aperture.
Use the proper shutter speed.
Focus properly.
Shoot in best light.
Use good lenses.
Clean your filters.
Clean your sensor.
Clean your lens.
Use a lens shade.
Expose properly.
Sharpen properly (for the dedicated output).
Understand and use color management.

And a dozen other, seemingly obvious, details. Following such technique will be far more beneficial than choosing between those two excellent camera bodies.

Tutorials can be found in abundance on the web. Not all are correct. Not all will pertain to your images. My favorite tutorials are available at luminous-landscape. I'm more comfortable with video tutorials than books. Video first, then books - that works for me.
--
Mike
http://web.me.com/mikebaginy/Mikes-view/Welcome.html
Click to expand...
 
Dave Largent said:
Beats 7D for general IQ.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of a 5D "Classic"

Is it some special edition of the 5D. As far as I know, there is only a 5D and a 5D2. Now as to the 5D, no, sorry. The IQ from the 5D is not better.
 
Daniel Lee Taylor said:
oysso said:
Daniel Lee Taylor said:
Dave Largent said:
Beats 7D for general IQ.
Click to expand...
LOL! Have any samples to prove that one?

I'm curious to know what DPR did wrong in the tests seeing as how they measured the 7D to have higher resolution, lower high ISO noise, and greater DR.
Click to expand...
7D has higheresolution if you have to crop much due to reach problem using tele lenses.
Click to expand...
7D has higher resolution period. Check the reviews.
Click to expand...
How does it have higher resolution?
Can you explain to me?

Higher resolution at the cost of more noise at ISO 100?
 
Yes 5D1 beats 7D in IQ. I own 5D1, 5D2 and 60D (which uses the same sensor from 7D but further twisted).





Don't confuse raw resolution (amount of MP) to fine details (or SNR or ratio of detail vs noise). 18mp 7D/60D does have more MP than 12.8mp 5D1 but not much. However it also has noticeable more grains/noises even at base ISO 100. Everyone can see noticeable grains in blue sky from 7D/60D photos even at base ISO 100 but not noticeable from 5D1 ones. In some areas such as portraits, the difference becomes pretty obvious.

I hate have to present two outdoor portrait snapshots over and over again as I still don't see 7D/60D ones can match at per-pixel IQ even you downsampling to the same 12.8mp. I have taken many close-up portrait photos from both 5D1 and 60D so I do know clearly.

Click "original" size tab to view at 100% size. Someone desperately pointed me to Canon 7D official portrait sample. But if you view at 100%, it also clearly show the details washed out and mushy at 100% per-pixel level from Canon official 7D portrait sample.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/1573239/canon-eos-5d_img_0119?inalbum=5dvsothers

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/1573238/canon-eos-5d_img_3308?inalbum=5dvsothers
oysso said:
Daniel Lee Taylor said:
oysso said:
Daniel Lee Taylor said:
Dave Largent said:
Beats 7D for general IQ.
Click to expand...
LOL! Have any samples to prove that one?

I'm curious to know what DPR did wrong in the tests seeing as how they measured the 7D to have higher resolution, lower high ISO noise, and greater DR.
Click to expand...
7D has higheresolution if you have to crop much due to reach problem using tele lenses.
Click to expand...
7D has higher resolution period. Check the reviews.
Click to expand...
How does it have higher resolution?
Can you explain to me?

Higher resolution at the cost of more noise at ISO 100?
Click to expand...
--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
 
The proper paper for the print is very important. That would then also require using proper printer settings with appropriate sharpening, soft proofing, icc profiles, ...

Printing in itself isn't really difficult but does require education and applying that knowledge. Since I've understood Color Management (at least most of it) and apply it (as far as I can), my prints are (finally!) as close as I'll probably get to matching my monitor.

Computer surroundings are also very important and that's where my location isn't optimal. But I've learned to live with the situation and work around the limitations.

Also presenting the print will affect the overall impression.
--
Mike
http://web.me.com/mikebaginy/Mikes-view/Welcome.html
 
goshigoo said:
7D, with a cropped sensor, which only uses the center part of the image
should produce better image than Full Frame 5D...
Click to expand...
I used to believe that oft-quoted bit of "internet knowledge" - until I actually shot with both types of cameras.

If you simply measure lp/mm resolution in the far corners of photographs made with the two formats, you could convince yourself that this is true. But what people tend to forget is that a given lp/mm level on a larger sensor provides more resolution across the full-frame sensor system than it does on the cropped sensor system.

In a sense, the issue isn't line pairs per millimeter - it is actually line pairs per picture width .

Vignetting will be more visible with the larger sensor, but as a problem that is often far over-rated. For one thing, it is easily corrected in post - most current software will do it automatically. For another, it is often an appealing quality in an image for reasons having to do with how our visual perception system works.

Bottom line: Anyone who is avoiding full frame and sticking to crop because they think that they'll get worse corners is making a mistake. (There are other reasons to shoot cropped sensor cameras though.)

Dan

--
---
G Dan Mitchell - SF Bay Area, California, USA
Blog & Gallery: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/
Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/u/0/102554407414282880001/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/gdanmitchellphotography
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdanmitchell/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/gdanmitchell
 
Things to decide upon :FF v. Crop, AF speed, fps, lens choice and price.
These things are more important differences than low iso IQ imho.

In low light hand-held shooting, you usually want the fastest lens you can get, so that becomes important - what's available and how much does it cost?

I find the 5D2 IQ slightly better than the 7D (I have both), but I don't shoot the same things with them. I can't get 8 fps action shots with the 5D2. I can get superb action shots with it, but careful timing and anticipation is often needed.
For distant wildlife and BIF I'll go for the 7D with my longest lens.
In low light situations I'll always go for the 5D2 with a fast lens.

For landscapes I mostly use the 5D2 but enjoy having the 7D alongside it to pick out a distant feature.

For macro I'll go for the 5D2 unless I really need the faster AF/fps of the 7D or I want the extra magnification/reach it can give if it's tricky to get close to a subject.

Two great and complementary cameras. If I had to chose one, it would be the 5D2, but I would miss the 7D!

I have a great set of EF lenses that have cost more than the 2 bodies put together, so my recommendation would be to make a list of the lenses you would get to go with each camera, and see the total cost. It may help in deciding!

Lastly, check out which lenses you will want. (what, I already said that...?)
;-)
Dosquattros said:
I am getting ready to buy a new DSLR and am down to the 5DmkII or 7D. The dpreview review of the 7D shows it to take better quality images than the 5DmkII but habe a difficult time believing it. How can this be true? I will use this camera for travel, and by doing so it may be subjected to some hard use and weather. I want the best images possible so they can be enlarged. Thanks in advance for your input.
Click to expand...
 
My only reason that the 5DII has better ability is due to it's FF sensor since it has more surface area than a cropped sensor which translates to less compression of images. For regular sized prints you won't see a significant difference in quality since the Digic processor does a great job. Lenses on the other hand do make a significant difference.
 
tocar said:
Lenses on the other hand do make a significant difference.
Click to expand...
Lenses make much less difference than the format, except for faster lenses, DOF, etc.

I wonder why nobody argues that good lenses make a difference but so many people argue that the format does not.
 
He intentionally find fault with this 5Dc name, not just once in this thread but many times in many different threads. He has a crusade to fight on 5D and 5D2.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=39703361

Sounds familiar? If you search you can find more to show he is so obsessed with this name - Classic that he simply cannot swallow.

I cannot read Fuzzy's mind. Does he ever tired? He really needs to check with a doctor ASAP because he is so mad on 5D/5D2. What's wrong with this guy?
Le Kilt said:
Faintandfuzzy said:
Dave Largent said:
Beats 7D for general IQ.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of a 5D "Classic"
Click to expand...
A common name for the original 5D on this forum.
Click to expand...
--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
 
paid $1000 for mine 2 years ago and can get $1000 for it today.

Same can't be said for 7d depreciation which a used 7d is about same price as a used 5dc since a new 7d can be had for $1350

My prediction is that the 5dc stays at $1K for another 2 years.

And 7d goes down further with the intro of new models.

The FF plays out in demand with portrait primes.

Classic it is ;)
 
dxo and the digital picture site is what I use also

7d on the left, 5dc on the right, iso 3200.

these are stopped down

it gets even worse on the 7d at wide open or near wide open - f1.2 -f2.8, because of lens to body performance wide open on crop


qianp2k said:
Yes 5D1 beats 7D in IQ. I own 5D1, 5D2 and 60D (which uses the same sensor from 7D but further twisted).





Don't confuse raw resolution (amount of MP) to fine details (or SNR or ratio of detail vs noise). 18mp 7D/60D does have more MP than 12.8mp 5D1 but not much. However it also has noticeable more grains/noises even at base ISO 100. Everyone can see noticeable grains in blue sky from 7D/60D photos even at base ISO 100 but not noticeable from 5D1 ones. In some areas such as portraits, the difference becomes pretty obvious.

I hate have to present two outdoor portrait snapshots over and over again as I still don't see 7D/60D ones can match at per-pixel IQ even you downsampling to the same 12.8mp. I have taken many close-up portrait photos from both 5D1 and 60D so I do know clearly.

Click "original" size tab to view at 100% size. Someone desperately pointed me to Canon 7D official portrait sample. But if you view at 100%, it also clearly show the details washed out and mushy at 100% per-pixel level from Canon official 7D portrait sample.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/1573239/canon-eos-5d_img_0119?inalbum=5dvsothers

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/1573238/canon-eos-5d_img_3308?inalbum=5dvsothers
oysso said:
Daniel Lee Taylor said:
oysso said:
Daniel Lee Taylor said:
Dave Largent said:
Beats 7D for general IQ.
Click to expand...
LOL! Have any samples to prove that one?

I'm curious to know what DPR did wrong in the tests seeing as how they measured the 7D to have higher resolution, lower high ISO noise, and greater DR.
Click to expand...
7D has higheresolution if you have to crop much due to reach problem using tele lenses.
Click to expand...
7D has higher resolution period. Check the reviews.
Click to expand...
How does it have higher resolution?
Can you explain to me?

Higher resolution at the cost of more noise at ISO 100?
Click to expand...
--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
Click to expand...
 
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