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Does E-PL3 have IBIS problems like E-PM1?

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sigala1 said:
amalric said:
In two months I shot in the streets' hubbub hurriedly with the PL3, perhaps one picture was ruined by excessive handshake . My IBIS is always on.

Since people seem so paranoid about IBIS I just decided to take 3 shots at 1/100, in the low light of my living room, and Lo!, pictures are perfectly sharp.

I wished those people avoided to propagate scares, and took their medicine ;)
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Great for you that your camera works. Mine doesn't.

If IBIS does work for you, it means the problem is a manufacturing defect that only affects some cameras.

I previously posted a demonstration showing that it's real:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40050225
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. . . That was a month ago. Have you since then sent it to Olympus so they could examine your camera to see if it's defective?
 
Actually, what they said is perfectly true even f you are best switching off the IBIS in normal light (as I always do, with any IS system, so if there is a problem I would not know).

It says nothing about leaving it switched on the whole time.
sigala1 said:
Blaming users for not having the correct "harmonic resonance"? This is nonsense. Why can't you just admit that there's a defect, either in the design or in the quality control?

Yes, the camera is still a good and useful photographic tool with the IBIS turned off, but people shouldn't just accept that a heavily promoted feature of the camera doesn't work. We need to hold corporations to greater accountability than that.

The camera clearly fails to live up to Olympus' own marketing literature:

STABILIZATION TECHNOLOGY IN THE BODY, NOT IN THE LENSES

Say goodbye to blurry images. Olympus’ in-body image stabilization technology makes it possible to use any Micro Four Thirds lenses (or Four Thirds lens), from wide-angle to telephoto, for perfectly clear, crisp photos no matter what the shooting situation, even in low light!
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--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
I would like a setting on my camera, like auto ISO but rather less useless than the one on the E3 and D3 (not tried on MFT, my bad) that:

Watches the shutter speed and the focal length (I'm assuming aperture priority here). When the shutter speed matches a user controllable ratio of the focal length (ie 1/45th at 45mm, assuming set to "1") the IBIS truns on and the ISO climbs.

Or, to put it another way, instead of telling auto ISO the maximum ISO, I would like to tell it the minimum ratio of shutter speed to focal length. And tie the IBIS in by all means.
rocklobster said:
Before I commit to a purchase - E-PM1 is really cheap - should I opt for the E-PL3 or are the IBIS problems failrly trivial?

Cheers
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--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
Louis_Dobson said:
I would like a setting on my camera, like auto ISO but rather less useless than the one on the E3 and D3 (not tried on MFT, my bad) that:

Watches the shutter speed and the focal length (I'm assuming aperture priority here). When the shutter speed matches a user controllable ratio of the focal length (ie 1/45th at 45mm, assuming set to "1") the IBIS truns on and the ISO climbs.

Or, to put it another way, instead of telling auto ISO the maximum ISO, I would like to tell it the minimum ratio of shutter speed to focal length. And tie the IBIS in by all means.
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Yes, that would make sense and would be easy to do in firmware. If no firmware room for that then dump scene modes and art filters and other stuff that is better done in post process.

My idea would be for options like...

IBIS off
IBIS on (but as usual goes off for (is it?) 2 seconds exposures or longer)
IBIS on but follows the old hand held rule
...sub options -2, -1, 0, +1, +2 stops surrounding the old rule.

And back to facts, in my case with E-PL1 I see a tiny amount of image blur with IBIS on at safe shutter speeds, turn IBIS off at safe shutter speeds and the image is sharper. Using 1/320 and 1/400 at 150mm in my test where I'm always reliable, often I'm reliable at 1/160 hand held 150mm with IBIS off.

In one bracket of 10 shots with IBIS on 9/10 had that tiny blur, 1/10 had a real shake pattern. In the next bracket of 10 shots with IBIS off 9/10 were sharper and 1/10 had shake, purely down to me.

So I leave IBIS off until I see that it is needed.

Regards.......... Guy

E-PL1 and general Pen info http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/01-epl1-menu.html
 
tinternaut said:
On the E-30, it's great. Even with the limited IBIS of the E-PL1, I've lucked out and got a sharp shot at 1/6.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jason_hindle/5056042971/



--
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J

Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jasonhindleuk
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at low hand held speeds all the way up to at least 1/60.

I would not give it up for the world.
tinternaut said:
Gear in profile
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TEdolph
 
Had the Magical EPM1 from day one: Never had an IBIS problem !

Shoot a ton when you get the camera: Don't like it return it !

Stop spreading tales of your incompetence

Boring:

Love Vjim ;)
 
Louis_Dobson said:
I've never liked IS. When you don't need it, then the last thing you want is something that can move the sensor or optics. When you DO need it, as a reactive system, it turns a shot that would be straight blurry into not quite sharp, which is still useless to me.
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That is exactly what I've discovered. The very best I can do is "not quite sharp." I see no point spending a lot of money on very good lenses only to have the camera body itself serve up soft photos. I'm glad to know that others share my experience.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
 
sigala1 said:
James Pilcher said:
It's easy to solve the problem though. It takes two steps. 1) Turn off IBIS and 2) get out your tripod. My Gitzo gives me over 20 stops of image stabilization and it works every time at any shutter speed. IBIS is for those who are too lazy to do it properly. I'll be attacked for that comment, but that's not surprising; the truth hurts.
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And m4/3 is for people too lazy to carry a real camera?
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Not at all. Tripods are universal; they make real cameras and toy cameras better. A tripod can make a m4/3 camera outperform a really fine "real" camera in the hands of a lazy photographer.
sigala1 said:
You simply CAN'T use a tripod for a lot of photos. If you're taking pictures of people at a party, are you going to say, "wait, let me get a tripod"? I don't think so.
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If my camera is not up to the task, I don't make the photo. It's not like the world is going to end if I do not trip the shutter. OTOH, I get really creative using walls, counters, chair backs and other solid surfaces. If I'm patient, I can even get candids if I previsualize camera placement and activity in the room.

If previsualizing candids sounds like an oxymoron, then you aren't thinking outside the box. ;)
sigala1 said:
So if you're looking to do professional quality landscape photos, the solution is to use a tripod, and use a camera with more than 12 megapixels and better dynamic range then you get from Olympus.
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I don't recall mentioning professional-quality anything. All I mentioned was sharp photographs or, rather, the lack of them when using IBIS.
sigala1 said:
And if you're look to just take handheld pictures with your camera, than you want image stabilization that works and that you can trust.
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That's my point. You cannot trust Olympus image stabilization if you want a truly sharp image. You can trust a tripod.

By the way, I'm not trashing Olympus cameras per se. My E-PL3, Gitzo, and Lightroom churn out really nice images.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
 
TorsteinH said:
On my E-5, and previous E-30, the IBIS works very well! I never turn IBIS of as long as the camera is not on a tripod. And my pictures are nearly always sharp!

Maybee you should clean your lens? :) Sorry just joking, but it must have been something wrong with your camera. IBIS works and it works very well, giving me on average 2-3 stops extra.
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Hi Torstein,

With careful and not-so-careful testing over three bodies (two E-5 and my E-PL3), I came to my conclusion. I'm not a neophyte, so I know how to think about and use my cameras.

I'm glad your IBIS works for you. I would never suggest you stop using it if you are pleased.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
 
In addition:

On my Kodak 880 it had a hand-moving warning ikon but since there was no IS it automatically upped the ISO to get a safer shutter speed.

Shouldn't be hard to have IBIS switch in when appropriate! Shouldn't be hard to add a warning in the Oly that you are in the danger zone if you have IBIS turned off.

BUT -- IBIS needs to be improved. Panny's OIS is much better. If the 14-42 X lens OIS worked on the E-PL3, I would buy it in a blink.

Cheers, geoff
--
Geoffrey Heard
http://pngtimetraveller.blogspot.com/2011/10/return-to-karai-komana_31.html
 
sigala1 said:
Hen3ry said:
...it depends how you shoot.

I encountered it with both the E-PM1 and the E-PL3 shooting with the camera held firmly to my eye with either an OVF (for wide primes) or the VF-2 EVF at moderate shutter speeds.

But Guy Parsons reported no such problem. He holds his camera away from him and uses the LCD to compose.

So I tested. Wonder of wonders, my IBIS problems largely disappeared when I did the same. Apparently, if you hold the camera too steady then it fools IBIS. Olympus advises to switch IBIS off if you are working on a tripod.

So the answer seems to be that IBIS needs a bit of gross movement to work with. If there is none or only very fine movement, IBIS will be fooled and introduce movement itself.
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This is totally WRONG. I just tried it. Took a photo with my hands held in front of me. A photo withthe camera held to my eye using the VF-3. And one with the IBIS turned off.

Guess what? Both of the IBIS shots were blurry. The shot with the IBIS turned off was sharp.

(In case you're wondering, all photos were with the 25mm lens at 1/100 sec.)

I've tried many times to see if I can somehow magically make the IBIS work at 1/100 sec by holding the camera sloppily. Sorry. No help. It only makes it even worse. IBIS is broken at 1/100 sec.

On the other hand, the IBIS works at 1/8 sec with the same lens. It makes a nice acceptable sharp photo at 1/8 sec, but a blurry photo at 1/100 sec.
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It's not totally wrong, Hen3ry's experience is exactly the same as mine; I've mentioned this in several posts now. My E-PM1 IS works far better if you are sloppy holding the camera. If you brace yourself firmly it is guaranteed to blur the image, every single time.

I've actually given up with the IS on the E-PM1, I pretend it's not there and have had far sharper images as a result, and improved my technique as a bonus.

I can only assume there's a major design flaw which affects different samples of the camera in different ways, or maybe it's down to the user's own personal "shake frequencies", who knows? All I know is the IS shouldn't be included as a "feature" in the specs or promo literature when it barely works.
 
vincent filomena said:
Had the Magical EPM1 from day one: Never had an IBIS problem !

Shoot a ton when you get the camera: Don't like it return it !

Stop spreading tales of your incompetence

Boring:

Love Vjim ;)
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I trust this is "tongue in cheek" ;)

I've had quite a few cameras, both with in lens IS and IBIS, and never have I witnessed a system as non functional as my E-PM1. I say "my", as it's clearly a problem with some samples and not others; I'm pleased yours works well. Mine might as well not have IS at all, I now leave it off.

On the other hand I'm lucky with the IS on my E-PL1, it stays on all the time and rescues many low light shots whilst not affecting "safe" shutter speed shots at all, whereas I know others have very poor experience with it.

Olympus needs to get their act together, at least as far as IS goes.
 
here's taken with EP2 + OMZ 135mm f/3.5 (eq 270mm ) at 1/25s handheld





i took this set of test
EP2 + mZD 45mm (eq 90mm) at 1/5s handheld
focus at windows sticker

IBIS off:





IBIS on:





side by side:





I think Pen IBIS works for me.
cheers
radix
James Pilcher said:
rocklobster said:
Before I commit to a purchase - E-PM1 is really cheap - should I opt for the E-PL3 or are the IBIS problems failrly trivial?
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I have the E-PL3. I had an E-5 prior to that. IBIS as implemented by Olympus does not work. Period. I have never gotten a tack sharp photo with IBIS engaged, from either camera at any shutter speed. Heaven knows I've tried.

It's easy to solve the problem though. It takes two steps. 1) Turn off IBIS and 2) get out your tripod. My Gitzo gives me over 20 stops of image stabilization and it works every time at any shutter speed. IBIS is for those who are too lazy to do it properly. I'll be attacked for that comment, but that's not surprising; the truth hurts.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
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IBIS allows photos at 1/25 and slower that simply are not possible without it.

The IBIS on my E-PL1 works great.

The world has known that all lens based and sensor based stabilization results in occasional blurring when it shouldn't. It is the same for all camera brands. Technology that pushes the bounds of physics as IBIS does sometimes doesn't work, in just the same way as Nikon's VR.
 
Pete_S said:
vincent filomena said:
Had the Magical EPM1 from day one: Never had an IBIS problem !

Shoot a ton when you get the camera: Don't like it return it !

Stop spreading tales of your incompetence

Boring:

Love Vjim ;)
Click to expand...
I trust this is "tongue in cheek" ;)

I've had quite a few cameras, both with in lens IS and IBIS, and never have I witnessed a system as non functional as my E-PM1. I say "my", as it's clearly a problem with some samples and not others; I'm pleased yours works well. Mine might as well not have IS at all, I now leave it off.

On the other hand I'm lucky with the IS on my E-PL1, it stays on all the time and rescues many low light shots whilst not affecting "safe" shutter speed shots at all, whereas I know others have very poor experience with it.

Olympus needs to get their act together, at least as far as IS goes.
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I find it surprising that you who are dissing on the Internet a brand for being obfuscating don't send you camera to assistance for a check.

Or else pay regularly your shrink for your denial problems. Making a lobby on a forum doesn't mean that a camera is faulty, it simply means that there are a lot of whiners, which is nothing new.

Am.

--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
In the real world, when used as intended...









These are taken with the old 4/3/ 70-300 - my gallery has a couple of 14-42 IIR landscapes at higher shutter speeds at IS1. If IBIS isn't improving your shots at slow shutter speeds, then have you camera checked. If it's destroying all your shots for non-pixel peeping viewing at any speeds, then have you camera checked.

I agree that IBIS can rob you of you of the last pixels of sharpness at higher shutter speeds - especially if you can make yourself like a tripod (reviewers and manuals mention this). If that bugs you, best leave IS off and enable it when you need it. This is true for all IS systems, just search for problems with other big brands. At the moment I leave IS on all the time, but I'm not that much of a pixel peeper.

--
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/digitaltrails/
 
I cannot agree more, from the subject title of the OP to the loaded question I cannot help to think...are these guys on the competitions payroll or what.....

Guys really can't you do better?

I had several m43 models plus the larger 43 bodies all with IBIS.... Its an absolute great system and it gave me hundreds of great images to date....

Please stop the rumors and use the space more productively....or if you have to use a potter name that will hide your identity better....

Siegfried

--
Community of Photographers
http://www.photographyisfun.ch
 
The first photo is nowhere near sharp, at least on my monitor. It appears to prove my point quite dramatically; Olympus IBIS does not work.

The second set of photos also demonstrates one of my points; IBIS can make things better, but never tack sharp. Looking at your side-by-side, the "sharp" one does not have the sharpness (IMO) that a tripod offers. In the end, it comes down to what satisfies the photographer. After extensive trials on three bodies, no implementation of IBIS satisfies me.

Please understand that I'm not criticizing your photos or your equipment. I'm just talkin' here about IBIS and critical sharpness.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
 
Quite right - IBIS is never going to get you to tack-sharp - you'd have to be dreaming to think otherwise. But it is a little over the top to headline it as not working at all as some have done.

If you're after 100% tack sharp images, any kind of IS should not even feature on your shopping list. And I guess from that point of view you can say IS does not work for you because it does not meet your requirements - just as m4/3 ISO performance does not meet the requirements of others in these forums.

The original post was asking if IBIS is faulty/problematic. The images and comments posted here attempt to outline how much a gain you can get. Like higher ISO, it's not a 100% solution. They also assist in outlining what is normal versus what is a fault that needs checking out.
James Pilcher said:
The first photo is nowhere near sharp, at least on my monitor. It appears to prove my point quite dramatically; Olympus IBIS does not work.

The second set of photos also demonstrates one of my points; IBIS can make things better, but never tack sharp. Looking at your side-by-side, the "sharp" one does not have the sharpness (IMO) that a tripod offers. In the end, it comes down to what satisfies the photographer. After extensive trials on three bodies, no implementation of IBIS satisfies me.

Please understand that I'm not criticizing your photos or your equipment. I'm just talkin' here about IBIS and critical sharpness.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/digitaltrails/
 
BushmanOrig said:
I cannot agree more, from the subject title of the OP to the loaded question I cannot help to think...are these guys on the competitions payroll or what.....

Guys really can't you do better?

I had several m43 models plus the larger 43 bodies all with IBIS.... Its an absolute great system and it gave me hundreds of great images to date....

Please stop the rumors and use the space more productively....or if you have to use a potter name that will hide your identity better....
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If IBIS ruiined pictures surely there would be universal complaint. Instead, what is known is that due to resonance with one particular shaky lens , the early 14-42, s at 1/100 there was blurriness. And even then, I never noticed.

From then on, ignoramus have generalised the accusation to all lenses, which is ludicrous. I assume that some here have the technical competence needed to burn witches at the stake, and not much else.

They get suddenly very serious if you warn them of their ridicule. Indeed they go from plot to plot. No one sending in their camera for a check, curious isn't it?

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
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