Evf usability for bright/constrasty scenes

Hi to you all,

I would like to know how usable the evf can be for scenes showing bright scenes with strong contrast such as a sunrise for instance.

Do you see any sort of saturation (i.e., too bights area) while you are looking into the evf? I would suspect so since the sensor is not near able to capture the same dynamic range as the naked eye.

Thanks for your answers,

moimoi

Hi Moimoi,

I've been pretty vocal on here about the EVF for landscape photography. It's lousy!

Hi contrast scenes are very hard to compose and I find myself moving the camera out of the way to look at the scene. I could take a bunch of shots and crop something down but I prefer to take my time and get the composition right. I was in a forest the other day about an hour before sunset and the EVF was useless.

Another annoyance is you can't really see off scene lens flare that you get early and late day (when the sun washes across the lens), you can spot this in a second with an OVF and use a hat or your hand to shade the lens. Just have to pay more attention now and always shade the lens just in case I guess.

Pierre

Thanks Pierre for your input. I shoot only with ovf at the moment, but more and more cameras are being equipped with evf (mostly because there is a market for smaller and compact camera, but also because it is also cheaper to make).

As someone who tends to shoot a lot in bright days, I am intrigued and worried about the dynamic range of such evf systems. I think there would be some needs for improvements in the future.

I think Fuji did it right by combining both optical and electronic view finder into one.

So far I only have one issue with the EVF. It is disconcerting to be reviewing the previous image on the LCD, put you eye to the EVF and you are looking at the review. Yes I know you can review on the EVF, maybe some day I will do that but it just does not seem right to have the camera in your face when not taking pictures.

I have taken maybe 100 sunsets/sunrises with no problems. The OVF and sunsets were always a problem for me as you could never see what the effect of the metering point will be. I have only a few daylight shots as I go to and return from work in the dark, but those that I have had no problems.

--
Sarge

A77, A700 8mm Bower, 50mm 1.7, 35-70 F4, 90mm Tamron, 18-250 Sigma & 50-500 Bigma
Fisheye photos at http://sony-snapper.com/Fish-Eye/index.html
Toy - Asus Transformer Android 3.2.1 tablet
Albums at http://www.sony-snapper.com

So far I only have one issue with the EVF. It is disconcerting to be reviewing the previous image on the LCD, put you eye to the EVF and you are looking at the review. Yes I know you can review on the EVF, maybe some day I will do that but it just does not seem right to have the camera in your face when not taking pictures.

I have taken maybe 100 sunsets/sunrises with no problems. The OVF and sunsets were always a problem for me as you could never see what the effect of the metering point will be. I have only a few daylight shots as I go to and return from work in the dark, but those that I have had no problems.

--
Sarge

A77, A700 8mm Bower, 50mm 1.7, 35-70 F4, 90mm Tamron, 18-250 Sigma & 50-500 Bigma
Fisheye photos at http://sony-snapper.com/Fish-Eye/index.html
Toy - Asus Transformer Android 3.2.1 tablet
Albums at http://www.sony-snapper.com

Edward Sargent said:

The OVF and sunsets were always a problem for me as you could never see what the effect of the metering point will be

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My problem with sunsets or strong backlit scenes with the sun in it, is that I'm too sensitive for the sun shining directly into my eye for more than a second or 2 like that with an OVF. That's where an EVF/LCD helps a lot.

And I agree that metering is easier in the latter case too, thanks to the histogram.

Compared to an optical viewfinder the evf looks very different, with a limited dynamic range. Some would say crap.

But wait a moment! I got the chanse to shoot a beautiful sky at late afternoon when I tried to learn the A55 EVF to know -- using it for weeks, instead of a glimpse inside a shop. I shot with the A900 and A55 side by side.

With the EVF I could directly see how the exposure would be, pretty close to an out-of-the-camera jpg file. I was also able to directly adjust the exposure settings so that the sky was as bright as I wanted in the final images -- not too bright or too dark. With an OVF you don't have a clue if you don't check the exposure symbols, which can be a bit tricky to interpret for high contrast scenes like sunsets, or check the exposure on the camera screen afterwards.

Also, I could determine if one exposure was sufficient to keep the tonal range of the scene, or if I should go for bracketing and HDR developing.

Of cause the raw file has larger dynamic range than the EVF shows, but this difference is VERY easy to calculate visually. If you can't do this, there is a live view histogram available right in front of your eyes.

After using the A55 for about a week I got the chanse to shoot the sunset below, so I was pretty well used to the EVF. Photographing this sunset was an eye opener for how useful the EVF can be, and I immediately missed this option with my A900. In fact, looking into the non-responsive OVF was a bit frustrating!

My conclution: It is not how the EVF looks, but how you use it! And for high contrast scenes the EVF can be very useful.

Determining correct exposure with the EVF was a piece of cake. You get (almost) what you see. Not so with the A900 OVF:





You can take extreme control over exposure even for such an extreme scene with the EVF:





With the EVF I could visually adjust the brighness of the houses, and make a perfect exposed image just by looking into the viewfinder:

Hey No Problem, I'm sure you'll get a variety of opinions in here. You really have to decide for yourself if it works.

A lot of people like that you can see what the sensor sees, IMO not very representative of the final image, especially when contrasty. I much prefer to see what the eye sees as that is what I inevitably want my photo to look like.

Cheers,

P.

yes, this is how people should approach EVF. When I had my A850, I loved it during the daytime. But during night shots... especially landscape was a bit trickier to use. You can try and set your exposure, but really, you're almost guessing at times and then taking the shot, reviewing the image, and then try again. When dealing with sunsets or sunrise... time is of the essence. Every minute that passes you lose photo opportunities quickly. And using EVF helps give you a better pre-exposure image than any OVF can ever provide. Also, (and this is a very big benefit for me)... is the articulating LCD screen. I HATED peaking through the OVF for tripod landscape shots. Sometimes I would mount my tripod really high or really low, and it would make it very awkward to look through the A850 OVF. With the A77 articulating screen... shooting landscape on tripod is so much easier.

In the end, the OVF of the A900 is beautiful... and cannot be compared to an EVF. But when it comes to functionality, there is no comparison. You just have to get passed the "look" of the mirror vs. OLED. Honestly, I don't really miss my A850 OVF anymore. But that's just me.

Nordstjernen said:

My conclution: It is not how the EVF looks, but how you use it! And for high contrast scenes the EVF can be very useful.

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PJR_68 said:

I much prefer to see what the eye sees as that is what I inevitably want my photo to look like.

Cheers,

P.

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When you prepare your photographs for a screen or print you need to reduce the dynamic range heavily. If not, you will get a very very flat image.

A photograph is not a copy of the real scene, it is just a representation. But the illusion is so brilliant that it not only remains us about the real scene, it might also make us belive that we are looking at the real scene.

Really? During night shots with slow shutter do the photos turn out what exactly what your eyes see? You must have some incredible eyes that can enchance the light around you

PJR_68 said:

Hey No Problem, I'm sure you'll get a variety of opinions in here. You really have to decide for yourself if it works.

A lot of people like that you can see what the sensor sees, IMO not very representative of the final image, especially when contrasty. I much prefer to see what the eye sees as that is what I inevitably want my photo to look like.

Cheers,

P.

Click to expand...

sye46 wrote:
Honestly, I don't really miss my A850 OVF anymore. But that's just me.

Same with me! (A900)

Expecting the EVF to show the final result is just unrealistic. You then had to do the post processing before pushing the release button!

I find the A77 EVF so close to the final result that it gives you excellent contol over the exposure, no matter the contrast of the scene. Then you have all the other really helpful features, as you already pointed out!

Actually for night shots, I would use the back display as I always have, it's way clearer then the EVF on the 77, and yes better then an OVF, just as it has been since live view showed up.

I don't think bringing up "night photography" when I'm talking "in general" makes much of a point.

Hey Nord,

Not really sure what your agreeing with me or not but when I look through an OVF that is what I try to replicate. I shoot RAW and edit pretty heavily in lightroom. Is that my interpretation of the scene? Of course it is. My jpegs and prints come out just fine.

You can't tell me that the EVF looks more "real" then an OVF.

PJR_68 said:

Hey No Problem, I'm sure you'll get a variety of opinions in here. You really have to decide for yourself if it works.

A lot of people like that you can see what the sensor sees, IMO not very representative of the final image, especially when contrasty. I much prefer to see what the eye sees as that is what I inevitably want my photo to look like.

Click to expand...

Wise comment indeed!

PJR_68 said:

Cheers,

P.

Click to expand...

The EVF doesn't look more real and it's not suppose to. It just tries to show the exposure and white balance 'closer' to what the actual image will look like.

Try to set he wrong exposure or different WB and what do you see in the OVF? Obviously nothing at all close to the image that will be captured.

PJR_68 said:

Hey Nord,

Not really sure what your agreeing with me or not but when I look through an OVF that is what I try to replicate. I shoot RAW and edit pretty heavily in lightroom. Is that my interpretation of the scene? Of course it is. My jpegs and prints come out just fine.

You can't tell me that the EVF looks more "real" then an OVF.

Click to expand...

PJR_68 said:

You can't tell me that the EVF looks more "real" then an OVF.

Click to expand...

The scene is for real, and a photograph, as a physical object (also when displayed on a screen), is real. But the representation is an illusion, and the EVF is pointing to this rather than the scene itself. In this perspective the EVF is closer to the representation, and the OVF is closer to the real scene.

The viewfinder is just a tool. For me the EVF is a much more useful tool than the OVF. For you and others it might be different.

Edward Sargent said:

I have taken maybe 100 sunsets/sunrises with no problems. The OVF and sunsets were always a problem for me as you could never see what the effect of the metering point will be. I have only a few daylight shots as I go to and return from work in the dark, but those that I have had no problems.

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Interesting as I generally don't find so difficult to capture the sunrise/sunset at the sweet spots while using proper metering (in this case, I would only use centerweight or sometime dot weight, but NEVER matrix).

This one below was taken with the a900, one raw snapshot (no HDR)...turned out to be mostly what I saw while I took the photo...



I really wonder how I would have seen the scene through the evf

Edward Sargent said:

--
Sarge

A77, A700 8mm Bower, 50mm 1.7, 35-70 F4, 90mm Tamron, 18-250 Sigma & 50-500 Bigma
Fisheye photos at http://sony-snapper.com/Fish-Eye/index.html
Toy - Asus Transformer Android 3.2.1 tablet
Albums at http://www.sony-snapper.com

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moimoi said:

I really wonder how I would have seen the scene through the evf

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Actually, not that far from your picture, with some lack of highlight and shadow detail (which you know are there in the raw file). Still superb to determine a good exposure.

Theoretically - I don't own neither A77 nor A900 - if EVF is limited by sensor DR capability, so does your final image. Some people prefer to see the limitation before they click the shutter release button, some prefer otherwise.